witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) He has a 1.47 WHIP. He's the 5th best righty reliever on the team. He should not be the closer. Your "closer," or the guy that pitches the 9th inning, doesn't have to be your best pitcher. You want your best pitcher available to throw in the 7th, 8th, AND 9th innings. I've mentioned it before, but the Sox organization, like every other organization in baseball, is very aware of leverage in pitching situations, and they want their best pitchers available for the highest leverage spots. The 9th inning, up by 1 or 2, with no outs and no one on base is pretty much a medium leverage spot, all things considered. He also has a GO/AO of 1.75, so it's not like a lot of the hits he gave up were bullets all over the field. They're pretty much all going to be singles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) Your "closer," or the guy that pitches the 9th inning, doesn't have to be your best pitcher. You want your best pitcher available to throw in the 7th, 8th, AND 9th innings. I've mentioned it before, but the Sox organization, like every other organization in baseball, is very aware of leverage in pitching situations, and they want their best pitchers available for the highest leverage spots. The 9th inning, up by 1 or 2, with no outs and no one on base is pretty much a medium leverage spot, all things considered. He also has a GO/AO of 1.75, so it's not like a lot of the hits he gave up were bullets all over the field. They're pretty much all going to be singles. Correct. Which is why I mentioned him being our 5th best reliever. The closer doesn't need to be your best guy but he shouldn't be one of your worst, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) Correct. Which is why I mentioned him being our 5th best reliever. The closer doesn't need to be your best guy but he shouldn't be one of your worst, either. I don't agree that he's one of the worst. Of the current relievers, the only one I'd 100% of the time take over him is Belisario. Lindstrom, Putnam, Webb, and Petricka are all interchangeable as far as I'm concerned, so going with the guy who has some experience in the closer's role makes a hell of a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:45 AM) I don't agree that he's one of the worst. Of the current relievers, the only one I'd 100% of the time take over him is Belisario. Lindstrom, Putnam, Webb, and Petricka are all interchangeable as far as I'm concerned, so going with the guy who has some experience in the closer's role makes a hell of a lot of sense. Well agree to disagree then. Maybe one of the worst is too harsh, but hes not one of the best either. Belisario, Putnam, and Petrika are all pitching at an elite level. Webb has the experience in the minors, nice potential, and has been mostly better than Lindstrom this year anyways. I'd rather see any of those guys close. Or get rid of the role all together but we know that's likely not to happen, even if they won't officially name one now. Edited May 21, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) Well agree to disagree then. Maybe one of the worst is too harsh, but hes not one of the best either. Belisario, Putnam, and Petrika are all pitching at an elite level. Webb has the experience in the minors, nice potential, and has been mostly better than Lindstrom this year anyways. I'd rather see any of those guys close. Or get rid of the role all together but we know that's likely not to happen, even if they won't officially name one now. Ideally, they'd go closer by committee just playing matchups, but there's something about the human psyche that doesn't allow relievers to ever get comfortable with that notion. My personal choice was Webb, FWIW, but it was just not a very important issue for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) Well agree to disagree then. Maybe one of the worst is too harsh, but hes not one of the best either. Belisario, Putnam, and Petrika are all pitching at an elite level. Webb has the experience in the minors, nice potential, and has been mostly better than Lindstrom this year anyways. I'd rather see any of those guys close. Or get rid of the role all together but we know that's likely not to happen, even if they won't officially name one now. The problem with this is you can say that putnam and petricka are pitching are currently pitching at an elite level. There is no track record for them. Are you going to move them around based on only how they are currently pitching? If they have a couple of bad outings do you move them? Pitchers like routine. They will respond better if they know about what their job is. If you continually switch everything around based on their last or last two outings you will lose the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) The problem with this is you can say that putnam and petricka are pitching are currently pitching at an elite level. There is no track record for them. Are you going to move them around based on only how they are currently pitching? If they have a couple of bad outings do you move them? Pitchers like routine. They will respond better if they know about what their job is. If you continually switch everything around based on their last or last two outings you will lose the bullpen. With Putnam, his career record suggests you just have to ride him while he's hot in the 7th and 8th, mostly. There's always going to be that unique situation (Jason Grilli last year, Politte and Cotts in 2005, etc.) where someone just catches fire for almost the entire season, but it's pretty rare, indeed. Petricka's pitched all over the place, from the 5th-9th, same with Webb. But Ventura, after quickly losing faith in Cleto, definitely has been favoring Putnam and Belisario, and for good reason too, statistically. To call Petricka or Webb elite...well, let's just say we have no idea right now exactly what they are...although I'd love to see if they have the ability to close out an elite team on the road in front of 40,000+ screaming fans, we just don't know yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) We're 1.5 out of the wild card for now. He has a 1.47 WHIP. He's the 5th best righty reliever on the team. He should not be the closer. Give up on the Wild Card. Don't be a White Flag type fan. We all know what this season is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 21, 2014 -> 10:49 AM) With Putnam, his career record suggests you just have to ride him while he's hot in the 7th and 8th, mostly. There's always going to be that unique situation (Jason Grilli last year, Politte and Cotts in 2005, etc.) where someone just catches fire for almost the entire season, but it's pretty rare, indeed. Petricka's pitched all over the place, from the 5th-9th, same with Webb. But Ventura, after quickly losing faith in Cleto, definitely has been favoring Putnam and Belisario, and for good reason too, statistically. To call Petricka or Webb elite...well, let's just say we have no idea right now exactly what they are...although I'd love to see if they have the ability to close out an elite team on the road in front of 40,000+ screaming fans, we just don't know yet. There are always relievers who catch fire. However, these also occur with diefine roles like politte and cotts did in 2005. They were the set up guys in the 7th and 8th depnding on if lh or rh were comoing up. They knew what was coming. Ventura is settling in to defined roles as you said and it's changing only due to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (ptatc @ May 21, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) The problem with this is you can say that putnam and petricka are pitching are currently pitching at an elite level. There is no track record for them. Are you going to move them around based on only how they are currently pitching? If they have a couple of bad outings do you move them? Pitchers like routine. They will respond better if they know about what their job is. If you continually switch everything around based on their last or last two outings you will lose the bullpen. I don't really think that's true, especially for these two, who have completely been jerked around this year and ate doing amazing. Edited May 21, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 21, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) I don't really think that's true, especially for these two, who have completely been jerked around this year and ate doing amazing. It is true that pitchers like the routine. Now some of them can overcome that and pitch whenever. However, most like to know when theY will pitch and pitch more effectively that way, even though it's mostly psychological. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 21, 2014 -> 09:49 AM) With Putnam, his career record suggests you just have to ride him while he's hot in the 7th and 8th, mostly. Bulls***. The reason Putman has been successful is pitch selection, plain and simple. His best pitch is the splitter. Prior to the Sox he threw the splitter roughly 30% of the time, seldom on first pitch or in hitter's counts. Now he is throwing the splitter 55% of the time and both on first pitch and hitter's counts. Putman is successful this season because he is "playing to his strengths" as opposed to throwing meatballs 60% of the time, which he did in Cleveland, Colorado and with the Chubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 32s Sounds like surgery upcoming for Matt Lindstrom. Robin Ventura isn't sure if its season-ending. More to come. #WhiteSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 1m Sounds like surgery upcoming for Matt Lindstrom. Robin Ventura isn't sure if its season-ending. More to come. #WhiteSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Lindstrom to miss 3 months due to ankle surgery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ May 21, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) Bulls***. The reason Putman has been successful is pitch selection, plain and simple. His best pitch is the splitter. Prior to the Sox he threw the splitter roughly 30% of the time, seldom on first pitch or in hitter's counts. Now he is throwing the splitter 55% of the time and both on first pitch and hitter's counts. Putman is successful this season because he is "playing to his strengths" as opposed to throwing meatballs 60% of the time, which he did in Cleveland, Colorado and with the Chubs. So what you're saying is a journeyman reliever was miraculously fixed by Don Cooper (ala Matt Thornton) and will be a fixture in our bullpen for 2015-2016-2017-2018 barring injury? Edited May 21, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 3m Matt Lindstrom's cast came off today, stitches out. He's here w/ team. Happy to rejoin them. Said team target is 9/1, his a little faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 04:56 PM) Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 3m Matt Lindstrom's cast came off today, stitches out. He's here w/ team. Happy to rejoin them. Said team target is 9/1, his a little faster. 2 1/2 more months. That's about right on schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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