NorthSideSox72 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) What does Sabremetrics tell you that you can't find from the stats on the back of baseball cards. Well unless they've started putting microchips on the backs of baseball cards since I collected them, I'd say a lot. Advanced metrics includes getting a lot more raw data, but more so is about different lenses to see the data. From the perspective of a statistician (not baseball, but in general), this stuff isn't even very complex. It is elementary analysis techniques. Filter out pollution and noise to give a more meaningful answer to a question. This isn't wizardry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Well unless they've started putting microchips on the backs of baseball cards since I collected them, I'd say a lot. Advanced metrics includes getting a lot more raw data, but more so is about different lenses to see the data. From the perspective of a statistician (not baseball, but in general), this stuff isn't even very complex. It is elementary analysis techniques. Filter out pollution and noise to give a more meaningful answer to a question. This isn't wizardry. can I have an example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Well unless they've started putting microchips on the backs of baseball cards since I collected them, I'd say a lot. Advanced metrics includes getting a lot more raw data, but more so is about different lenses to see the data. From the perspective of a statistician (not baseball, but in general), this stuff isn't even very complex. It is elementary analysis techniques. Filter out pollution and noise to give a more meaningful answer to a question. This isn't wizardry. I have no idea what you just said but it sounds scary and gimmicky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) can I have an example? and there it is. SS2K5, you owe me 5 dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) can I have an example? Of wizardry? Here ya go... Of what isn't on the back of a baseball card? How about ANYTHING meaningful about defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) I have no idea what you just said but it sounds scary and gimmicky. it feels bootlegged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) and there it is. SS2K5, you owe me 5 dollars God I hate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Of wizardry? Here ya go... Of what isn't on the back of a baseball card? How about ANYTHING meaningful about defense. No example, just a lot of hot air from the Sabermetricians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) No example, just a lot of hot air from the Sabermetricians. Defense. You know, that part of the game not hitting for position players? Or do you think that defense doesn't actually exist, or is simply hot air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) No example, just a lot of hot air from the Sabermetricians. they have been giving you examples for months. You just refuse to acknowledge them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) Defense. You know, that part of the game not hitting for position players? Or do you think that defense doesn't actually exist, or is simply hot air? Rafael Palmeiro's 1999 season was one of the greatest defensive seasons in history by a 1b according to my baseball card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) Defense. You know, that part of the game not hitting for position players? Or do you think that defense doesn't actually exist, or is simply hot air? Defense is a statistic that Sabremetricians made up. Wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) No example, just a lot of hot air from the Sabermetricians. Player A - .263 BA, 41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R, 5 SB, 4 CS Player B - .276 BA, 28 HR, 66 RBI, 75 R, 5 SB, 0 CS There are only very minor differences in era here. Please tell me which of these back of the baseball card players you would prefer to have on your team. One of them was a notorious abuser of PEDs while the other was merely suspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) Rafael Palmeiro's 1999 season was one of the greatest defensive seasons in history by a 1b according to my baseball card. He gut lucky. Sabremetricians know all about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) Player A - .263 BA, 41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R, 5 SB, 4 CS Player B - .276 BA, 28 HR, 66 RBI, 75 R, 5 SB, 0 CS Those are not all of the statistics on the back of the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:22 PM) He gut lucky. Sabremetricians know all about that. Must have talked to the right sportswriters then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) Those are not all of the statistics on the back of the card. Surely you can't be talking about walks and strikeouts, can you? Those are tomfoolery samerfetrics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hell of a thread, everyone. There's so much useful conversation in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) Hell of a thread, everyone. There's so much useful conversation in here. Adam Dunn - 100 years, the planet of Mars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 03:24 PM) Those are not all of the statistics on the back of the card. So you're missing at bats, doubles, triples, and games played? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) Surely you can't be talking about walks and strikeouts, can you? Those are tomfoolery samerfetrics! Sabremetricians discovered the walk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) Hell of a thread, everyone. There's so much useful conversation in here. gotta talk about something in the downtime, so we might as well argue the worth of sabermetric stats. It isnt like we just heard Chris Sale is starting tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) So you're missing at bats, doubles, triples, and games played? D.O.B. too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Sabremetricians discovered the walk! You are correct on this statement, they did not. However, they were the first ones to properly value the walk. Remember when Steve Garvey won the MVP in 1974 with 31 walks but a .312 average, while his teammate Jimmy Wynn hit for a .271 average but walked 108 times? So, obviously if you are valuing walks properly, you do not believe sabermetrics to be a gimmick. If you are suggesting otherwise, please choose one of the two players I have provided. Here is the post again for your reference. Player A - .263 BA, 41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R, 5 SB, 4 CS Player B - .276 BA, 28 HR, 66 RBI, 75 R, 5 SB, 0 CS There are only very minor differences in era here. Please tell me which of these back of the baseball card players you would prefer to have on your team. One of them was a notorious abuser of PEDs while the other was merely suspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 21, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) Defense is a statistic that Sabremetricians made up. Wonderful. Can't believe I got drawn into this. You are so obviously trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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