Webb should close

[BaseballNick]

Let's not forget how well Sergio Santos has done since leaving the Sox.

 

Not that we got a great trade return there, but at least we avoided paying him the early money we committed to him.

 

Didn't the Sox essentially replace Sergio Santos with Matt Lindstrom - and for even more money?

[caulfield12]

Didn't the Sox essentially replace Sergio Santos with Matt Lindstrom - and for even more money?

 

Well, they avoided paying Santos $8.25 million for the last 3 years.

 

I honestly don't believe the plan was to make Lindstrom the closer. FWIW, Nate Jones was the choice, with Lindstrom in set-up. Now, we can argue in retrospect they were overpaying Matt, but Hahn believed they needed at least 2-3 veterans in the bullpen (Belisario and Downs) to go along with their young and rising arms (Jones, Webb, Petricka).

 

It wasn't a terrible plan for a team not expected to win over 75 games.

 

 

Of course, right now it's easy to say we'd like to have Mark Buehrle back, Reed instead of Davidson, Alex Rios instead of Garcia (keeping DeAza off the field/roster) and Jake Peavy back in the rotation.

 

But then you're talking a payroll $45-50 million higher. And it's not like Peavy has been that great with the Red Sox this season (4.65 ERA, 1.5 WHIP, 7.11 ERA in 3 post-season starts for Boston last year).

 

So, if you were clairvoyant, perhaps you could argue that Buehrle, Rios and Reed would have this team in contention. $31 million pricetag.

 

Edited May 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Well, they avoided paying Santos $8.25 million for the last 3 years.

 

I honestly don't believe the plan was to make Lindstrom the closer. FWIW, Nate Jones was the choice, with Lindstrom in set-up. Now, we can argue in retrospect they were overpaying Matt, but Hahn believed they needed at least 2-3 veterans in the bullpen (Belisario and Downs) to go along with their young and rising arms (Jones, Webb, Petricka).

 

It wasn't a terrible plan for a team not expected to win over 75 games.

 

 

Of course, right now it's easy to say we'd like to have Mark Buehrle back, Reed instead of Davidson, Alex Rios instead of Garcia (keeping DeAza off the field/roster) and Jake Peavy back in the rotation.

 

But then you're talking a payroll $45-50 million higher. And it's not like Peavy has been that great with the Red Sox this season (4.65 ERA, 1.5 WHIP, 7.11 ERA in 3 post-season starts for Boston last year).

 

So, if you were clairvoyant, perhaps you could argue that Buehrle, Rios and Reed would have this team in contention. $31 million pricetag.

 

Nice dream. It misses a lot of reality, such as how bad Buehrle was until this year, and we'd be losing $50 million-ish dollars this year, which is never going to happen.

[SCCWS]

Weird I thought closers WERE relief pitchers.

 

Whatever happened to Dustin Hermanson?

 

Closers are relievers but not every reliever is a closer. Baseball has this thing vcalled the set-up man. Think of matt Thornton. Reliever his whole career. But he has had more blown saves in his career than saves. He was a verg good reliever for us. But he didn't have the mental make-up to close.

 

You bring up Hermananson. Another great example. Starter his whole career becomes a reliever at 31 and closes in 05 at age 32. Then his body gave out and he retired in 06. Again, not every one can be a closer.

 

[caulfield12]

Closers are relievers but not every reliever is a closer. Baseball has this thing vcalled the set-up man. Think of matt Thornton. Reliever his whole career. But he has had more blown saves in his career than saves. He was a verg good reliever for us. But he didn't have the mental make-up to close.

 

You bring up Hermananson. Another great example. Starter his whole career becomes a reliever at 31 and closes in 05 at age 32. Then his body gave out and he retired in 06. Again, not every one can be a closer.

 

Or Jason Grilli in 2014, compared to 2013. Or Jim Johnson, one of Beane's biggest brain farts.

 

Hard to do it on a consistent, year-in, year-out basis.

 

Other than Rivera, Nathan until recent years, Hoffman (part of that was PetCo) and Soria before all of his injuries, there just weren't many "close to automatic" closers. Kimbrel's pretty near to that level, a notch below. For one season, sure...but not for 5+ years in a row.

 

Or look at Gagne and Brian Wilson.

 

When closers do have those huge save seasons, like a Thigpen or K-Rod, they're almost never the same after. Koch is 2003 with us.

Edited May 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Nice dream. It misses a lot of reality, such as how bad Buehrle was until this year, and we'd be losing $50 million-ish dollars this year, which is never going to happen.

 

 

Wouldn't that also be the case had we signed Tanaka?

 

A $40 million dollar hit, roughly, in addition to the signing bonus for Abreu...depending on how that's being counted for losses/revenues.

Edited May 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

Or Jason Grilli in 2014, compared to 2013. Or Jim Johnson, one of Beane's biggest brain farts.

 

Hard to do it on a consistent, year-in, year-out basis.

 

Other than Rivera, Nathan until recent years, Hoffman (part of that was PetCo) and Soria before all of his injuries, there just weren't many "close to automatic" closers. Kimbrel's pretty near to that level, a notch below. For one season, sure...but not for 5+ years in a row.

 

Or look at Gagne and Brian Wilson.

 

When closers do have those huge save seasons, like a Thigpen or K-Rod, they're almost never the same after. Koch is 2003 with us.

 

 

Agree and even Hermanson in 2005 closed for us and was never the same. Papelbon is another closer who has put up a string of pretty good years.

[LDF]

while everyone has a good point, I am talking about our current players whether it is majors or minors, and

how they are playing. players not on the roster not wit standing.

 

the injury bug has hurt us as it has hurt many teams this yr. still we need to continue as we are. look at the waiver

list, for short time players that can help.

[Heads22]

Optimally, I'd set up the pen with Webb as the closer, Belisario, Petricka and Putnam as your setup/middle relief dudes, Downs as the requisite lefty, with Guerra and Carroll in low leverage situations. Carroll if you need someone to just eat innings in a blowout.

[Jake]

Webb is striking out 6.8 per 9 and walking 6.1 per 9. He's getting by on an unsustainably low homer rate. I see the potential as everyone else does, but the best way to ruin the kid is to put him in at closer when he's very obviously not ready for it.

 

My order of closer candidates:

1. Belisario

2. Putnam

3. Petricka

4. Webb

 

Though I could see Guerra climbing up there given his considerable MLB closing experience. Belisario has a few more outings to get back to his dominant self. Putnam could be overtaken by Petricka if he continues to look shaky. Webb has the most to prove of those four IMO

[LittleHurt05]

Closers are relievers but not every reliever is a closer. Baseball has this thing vcalled the set-up man. Think of matt Thornton. Reliever his whole career. But he has had more blown saves in his career than saves. He was a verg good reliever for us. But he didn't have the mental make-up to close.

 

You bring up Hermananson. Another great example. Starter his whole career becomes a reliever at 31 and closes in 05 at age 32. Then his body gave out and he retired in 06. Again, not every one can be a closer.

 

For the umpteenth time, you can't compare blown saves to saves for middle relievers. Most of those blown saves came before the ninth inning when he had zero chance of earning a save.

[LittleHurt05]

Nice dream. It misses a lot of reality, such as how bad Buehrle was until this year, and we'd be losing $50 million-ish dollars this year, which is never going to happen.

 

If Buehrle, Peavy, and Rios were still on the Sox, Abreu would be on a different team.

[greg775]

+1. The Davidson trade was worth doing a few months ago and would be worth doing again today. Reed's numbers don't smack of anything close to an elite reliever.

He has 14 saves; he'd probably have a ton of saves with the Sox as well (yes I realize some of his numbers suck).

 

Webb is striking out 6.8 per 9 and walking 6.1 per 9. He's getting by on an unsustainably low homer rate. I see the potential as everyone else does, but the best way to ruin the kid is to put him in at closer when he's very obviously not ready for it.

 

My order of closer candidates:

1. Belisario

2. Putnam

3. Petricka

4. Webb

 

Though I could see Guerra climbing up there given his considerable MLB closing experience. Belisario has a few more outings to get back to his dominant self. Putnam could be overtaken by Petricka if he continues to look shaky. Webb has the most to prove of those four IMO

 

Sox should just do closer by committee unless they want to try Webb out in a few weeks. Didn't Rock Raines say the plan was Webb to be the closer the second half?

As far now, I'd just leave in the guy who finishes the eighth. We have NO closer candidates besides Webb and I do not think Webb is anything special either.

CLOSER BY COMMITTEE. We have no closer.

 

[Heads22]

He has 14 saves; he'd probably have a ton of saves with the Sox as well (yes I realize some of his numbers suck).

 

 

 

Sox should just do closer by committee unless they want to try Webb out in a few weeks. Didn't Rock Raines say the plan was Webb to be the closer the second half?

As far now, I'd just leave in the guy who finishes the eighth. We have NO closer candidates besides Webb and I do not think Webb is anything special either.

CLOSER BY COMMITTEE. We have no closer.

 

To be fair, our top two candidates currently inhabit the DL.

[greg775]

To be fair, our top two candidates currently inhabit the DL.

 

I'm not a big Nate Jones guy. Lindstrom was doing OK I guess.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I want to see Putnam as closer

[caulfield12]

I want to see Putnam as closer

 

Not after his last two outings.

[greg775]

Not after his last two outings.

 

Guys, we have no closer. It's that simple.

[GreenSox]

Petricka

[BigHurt3515]

Soooo where is Bobby Jenks again?

[caulfield12]

Soooo where is Bobby Jenks again?

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...king-a-comeback

[Kyyle23]

Hate to say it, but this bullpen was more or less humming along nicely when Lindstrom was the closer. Belisario, Downs, Putnam, Webb and Petricka were all doing very well in their roles. Once their roles changed, the warts started to show again.

[southsider2k5]

I want to see Putnam as closer

 

If we should have learned anything is that we should be trying to leave guys where they were succeeding, whenever possible.

[southsider2k5]

Hate to say it, but this bullpen was more or less humming along nicely when Lindstrom was the closer. Belisario, Downs, Putnam, Webb and Petricka were all doing very well in their roles. Once their roles changed, the warts started to show again.

 

Exactly.

[SCCWS]

For the umpteenth time, you can't compare blown saves to saves for middle relievers. Most of those blown saves came before the ninth inning when he had zero chance of earning a save.

 

Actually you can only get a BS if you are pitching in a save situation. But relievers who are not closers do not get as many save chances because they get pulled. Matt Thornton was the closer for parts of several seasons under Ozzie. Unfortunately he failed in those chances and was relagated back to set up each time. Once Reed arrived on the scene, Thornton stayed as the setup guy.