UCSB School Shooting

[Jenksismyhero]

No one has gangs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_%28underground_society%29

 

http://www.irinnews.org/in-depth/70038/28/...re-in-cape-town

 

Because that's what I said?

 

But please, show me the evidence that the gang figures are similiar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_population

 

And that's not even accurate since in 2009 the FBI found that the US alone has 1.4 million gang members, and growing.

[Jenksismyhero]

An overwhelming majority of people in this country are ok with more restrictive gun laws, it's just that it's much easier to organize those that are really, really opposed along a single line of opposition. The recall elections in Colorado several months ago are a perfect example of that.

 

Side note: if no amount of laws is going to stop people from killing other people, doesn't that undermine the whole "deterrent" argument for capital punishment or a harsh retributive justice system in general?

 

Deterring people isn't really my main reason for being pro-capital punishment.

 

And to be clear, i'm sure those restrictions would help some. I'm just saying their impact will be small with regard to these mass murders committed by pyschos. For the few they may prevent, you're infringing on a LOT of other people in the process. At some point you have to look at the risk-reward here. Obviously someone like Balta or Reddy, who see zero value in guns at all, couldn't care less about that. Me, and others, who have guns and use guns for hobby/sport, strongly disagree (and i'm not even a gun nut. I own some shotguns and rifles for hunting every few years).

[StrangeSox]

Can we at least all agree that the dudes (and it's pretty much always dudes) who make a big show of carrying long guns into public places are weird and creepy?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Also, I just watched this assholes last video. Jesus, if this isn't proof of the bulls*** entitlement culture we have these days. "I can't have you, so now I'll kill you." The world owes me everything.

[StrangeSox]

Male view of entitlement to womens' bodies used to be worse in this country and is considerably worse in some other countries.

[EvilMonkey]

Can we at least all agree that the dudes (and it's pretty much always dudes) who make a big show of carrying long guns into public places are weird and creepy?

 

Yes, the OC guys do more harm than good and are a bunch of publicity seeking idiots. It wold be one thing if they arranged ahead of time to be places, notified the police and were polite about it. But they are not. They aggressively try to push their cause and do nothing to dispel stereotypes.

[Jake]

Gangs really benefit from straw purchasing and gun shows. You should go to a gun show in my old town, Memphis. Holy crap is it terrifying.

[greg775]

Well, that tragedy is officially "old news." Let's hope there are no more, but this past one has certainly exited the news cycle. With the killer dead, there's nothing left to report on. Prayers for all the victims and their loved ones.

[Reddy]

Well, that tragedy is officially "old news." Let's hope there are no more, but this past one has certainly exited the news cycle. With the killer dead, there's nothing left to report on. Prayers for all the victims and their loved ones.

And thus the easily terminated cycle continues.

[Y2HH]

And thus the easily terminated cycle continues.

 

As Hawkaroo might say, "What new?"

 

This is one of the issues with being bombarded by a 24/7 news cycle where 90% of the news reported is distraction news. I mean, what would we do with our time if we weren't having to hear about some stupid Kanye/Kardashion wedding every day for three weeks (and I'm a person who actively attempted to AVOID anything related to that story, and it was impossible.

[Jenksismyhero]

And thus the easily terminated cycle continues.

 

Again, point me to all of those posts you've written about the poor black kids of Chicago who are gunned down every weekend. I'm sure you think, write and advocate about that issue 24/7 right?

[Balta1701]

Again, point me to all of those posts you've written about the poor black kids of Chicago who are gunned down every weekend. I'm sure you think, write and advocate about that issue 24/7 right?

If only those kids had more guns...

[Kyyle23]

The Martinez father interview on CNN was heart breaking. So raw

[Y2HH]

If only those kids had more guns...

 

If only there were laws preventing criminals from getting guns so easily.

 

Oh, wait, this is Chicago, there are tons of such laws...too bad they have no teeth.

[caulfield12]

Yes, positive results are possible, but I don’t say they’re probable. For one thing, we have a remarkably poor record in this country of seizing the opportunities that follow spectacular crimes of this sort. After the Aurora and Newtown shootings, there appeared to be a window for some modest degree of national gun regulation, perhaps a federal ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammo clips. But in case you hadn’t noticed, our political system is paralyzed and dysfunctional, and the party with a House majority is held hostage by weapons manufacturers and a fanatical core of Second Amendment truthers. So that went nowhere, because Thomas Jefferson’s vision of the republic’s future evidently involved a lot of fat white guys in camo vests stockpiling action-movie arsenals. (The good news about the Obama-era explosion in gun ownership is that it hasn’t altered the general downward trend in crime. The bad news is that it probably means that the people who already had guns have bought more of them.)

 

But that’s not actually my subject here, although we should stipulate that reasonable restrictions on firearm ownership would go a long way toward reducing the frequency, the body count and the media-friendly spectacle of incidents like the Isla Vista killings. Now, Elliot Rodger would presumably have been just as disturbed on the subject of male-female relations if he’d lived in England or Germany or any of the other major Western countries where it’s much more difficult to acquire guns (which would be, let’s see, all of them). What troubles me is the extent to which many men seek to ignore or deflect all conversation about the specific nature of Elliot Rodger’s pathology, along with the evident fact that many women see that pathology as a ubiquitous social and cultural problem.

 

It’s one thing to conclude that access to guns and inadequate mental-health treatment were the most important factors in the toxic equation that fueled Rodger’s rampage, and that misogynistic ranting was the form of his crazy but not the substance. I don’t find that entirely persuasive, but it’s a reasonable position in itself. What I’ve encountered over and over again this past week on Twitter and comments forums and message boards is that opinion used as a weapon, angrily presented as an incontrovertible fact that should put an end to all this hysterical and irresponsible lady-talk. It’s a window-slammer, meant to terminate a conversation that threatens to stray into uncomfortable questions about misogyny, male entitlement and masculine identity. It’s another way of telling the girls to shut up. And fellas, we’ve done quite enough of that.

 

 

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/elliot_rod..._point_for_men/

[Jenksismyhero]

I have to point out that it's ironic that people complain about male entitlement in this situation, yet every f'n rom-com in the last 40 years is about a woman who is deserving of a good guy because she's got a good personality, she's successful, she's quirky and different, she bloomed later in life, etc. etc. How is that any different than a man thinking that he "deserves" a female?

 

Part of this stuff is, IMO, 100% natural. It's the way we're wired. We want to mate, which necessitates the participation of the opposite sex.

 

edit: Obviously this guy took it to the extreme. I'm not suggesting he was "ok" or that the extent to which he felt entitled was ok. But this is twice now i've read a paragraph or two where someone in an article is trying to link this tragedy with a general problem with male entitlement, and I just don't buy it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Kyyle23]

I have to point out that it's ironic that people complain about male entitlement in this situation, yet every f'n rom-com in the last 40 years is about a woman who is deserving of a good guy because she's got a good personality, she's successful, she's quirky and different, she bloomed later in life, etc. etc. How is that any different than a man thinking that he "deserves" a female?

 

Part of this stuff is, IMO, 100% natural. It's the way we're wired. We want to mate, which necessitates the participation of the opposite sex.

 

edit: Obviously this guy took it to the extreme. I'm not suggesting he was "ok" or that the extent to which he felt entitled was ok. But this is twice now i've read a paragraph or two where someone in an article is trying to link this tragedy with a general problem with male entitlement, and I just don't buy it.

 

Really? A rom com? let's next discuss nuclear responsibility because Godzilla

[Jenksismyhero]

Really? A rom com? let's next discuss nuclear responsibility because Godzilla

 

You know someone actually blamed Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow (and Hollywood generally) for this tragedy because in their movies the guy always gets the hot girl, there's a frat mentality, etc., right? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/seth...m-critic-707117

Edited June 2, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Kyyle23]

You know someone actually blamed Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow (and Hollywood generally) for this tragedy because in their movies the guy always gets the hot girl, there's a frat mentality, etc., right? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/seth...m-critic-707117

 

That must make it true

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not saying it is totally, but where else would a "culture" of entitlement come from? Entertainment sources are going to be at the top of the list.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Kyyle23]

I'm not saying it is totally, but where else would a "culture" of entitlement come from? Entertainment sources are going to be at the top of the list.

 

Come on, you are citing the Hollywood reporter. The kid felt entitled, shamed, jealous, rage etc. he perpetrated a terrible crime for a lot of reasons, but Judd Apatow and Seth Rogen and Rom Coms are an absolutely terrible cop out.

[Jenksismyhero]

Come on, you are citing the Hollywood reporter. The kid felt entitled, shamed, jealous, rage etc. he perpetrated a terrible crime for a lot of reasons, but Judd Apatow and Seth Rogen and Rom Coms are an absolutely terrible cop out.

 

I'm not saying we should blame them, i'm just saying the reason people think male entitlement is a problem is that it's being reinforced by our "culture." Movies, TV, music, etc. all play a part in that. That same "culture" also reinforces the entitlement mentality for women and how they view men. The problem here isn't this guy's desire to have women like him, or the expectation that women SHOULD like him, it's that he thought by just being a man he could get panties to drop all around him, and when that didn't happen, murder was the appropriate response. The extra step is the problem, not his mindset.

 

Here's another example of, IMO, a misplaced argument: http://gawker.com/this-teen-girls-short-sh...inst-1584801191

 

High school girl wears shorts to school that are too short. She gets suspended for not changing as the shorts violate a school rule. Presumably the rule is there because she has 15-18 year old boys looking at her and not paying attention in school. In other words, she's becoming a distraction to sexually crazed teenage boys. This is a sensible policy (although I could see an exception being made in hot weather). To her, it's the boys being misogynistic assholes for looking at her as an object. To me, they're not being misogynists, they're not being anti-women, they're being 15-18 year old teenagers who would f*** a couch if it had a hole in it. And the school knows this, so they instituted a rule accordingly. But of course this is labeled as a story that highlights the problem with how men see women in our culture.

[Jake]

The original "blame Seth Rogen" editorial was a hell of a lot more nuanced

[Jenksismyhero]

Can we at least all agree that the dudes (and it's pretty much always dudes) who make a big show of carrying long guns into public places are weird and creepy?

 

 

Those crazy NRA assholes issued a statement on this:

 

Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.

 

Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.

 

Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

 

and

 

“Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners,” the NRA wrote. “That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way.”

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/06/02/n...-chipotle-beef/

Edited June 3, 2014 by Jenksismybitch