Possible Suitors for Gordon Beckham

[witesoxfan]

The only place Paulino played where his ERA was below 5.83 was KC, and that was 162 innings and 27 starts over 2 years. How is that being a great pitcher over a fairly large period of time? That was also 2 surgeries ago, and his short stint in the minors last year look just like his performances this season.

 

I still would take Jimenez as he has had a few good starts. And no one seems to mention Santana. I guess he is doing too well. (Although I preferred Jimenez myself, and noted it here)

 

Just so we are clear, this:

 

162 innings and 27 starts over 2 years

 

is not an extended period of time, but this:

 

I still would take Jimenez as he has had a few good starts

 

is worth $50 million over 4 years and a 2nd round pick.

 

Got it, thank you!

[Eminor3rd]

Santana, Jimenez, and Paulino have all ranged from mediocre to vomit-inducing. They were all gambles to be decent at varying odds, none of them anything like safe. Two of them cost tens of millions of dollars and draft picks, one was practically free.

 

We gambled on the one that was free.

[witesoxfan]

Santana, Jimenez, and Paulino have all ranged from mediocre to vomit-inducing. They were all gambles to be decent at varying odds, none of them anything like safe. Two of them cost tens of millions of dollars and draft picks, one was practically free.

 

We gambled on the one that was free.

 

The thing that's nice about him being free is that the Sox can cut ties with him and have practically no ramifications. They can also try him in the bullpen without feeling hamstrung by a contract. They made the right move.

[caulfield12]

Just so we are clear, this:

 

 

 

is not an extended period of time, but this:

 

 

 

is worth $50 million over 4 years and a 2nd round pick.

 

Got it, thank you!

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id.../ubaldo-jimenez

 

4 months of starts, to be exact....

 

 

Well, it actually would have been better/cheaper to steal McHugh before the Astros did (from the Mets/Rockies).

 

 

 

Kazmir, Tim Hudson, Phil Hughes, Feldman, Haren and Josh Johnson (obviously that was a bad one) were closer to the White Sox price range and years.

Edited May 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Just so we are clear, this:

 

 

 

is not an extended period of time, but this:

 

 

 

is worth $50 million over 4 years and a 2nd round pick.

 

Got it, thank you!

If 27 starts over 2 years is being a great pitcher over a long period of time, I think Jimenez and Santana have pretty much blown that away during their careers. We will see the numbers at the end of the season. One thing we know, Paulino isn't helping anyone win this year. The other 2 still have a chance and each have had several good starts.

[witesoxfan]

If 27 starts over 2 years is being a great pitcher over a long period of time, I think Jimenez and Santana have pretty much blown that away during their careers. We will see the numbers at the end of the season. One thing we know, Paulino isn't helping anyone win this year. The other 2 still have a chance and each have had several good starts.

 

You are going to play your semantics card, but I did state extended, not "long." He was good enough that people on here liked him at $1.5 million. I surely liked that gamble at $1.5 mill and no compensation a hell of a lot more than I did $14.1 mill and a pick or $50 million and a pick.

 

I also don't believe that we have seen the last of Paulino, but if he is done, they can just cut him and only owe him the remaining portion of his $1.5 mill. They could not do that with either Santana or Jimenez. It's not a big loss.

 

EDIT: I also find it funny that you are still defending a would be signing of Jimenez or Santana at this juncture. It's truly outrageous. You have made my day. Thanks for that.

Edited May 28, 2014 by witesoxfan

[caulfield12]

Either Kazmir, Tim Hudson, Phil Hughes, Feldman or Haren

 

A healthy Avisail Garcia

 

and a better lefty/loogy than Scott Downs...(in fact, if you subtract the money we've spent on Downs/Keppinger/Paulino/DeAza to sign one of those five veterans and a different lefty, that roster would still cost the same or less even)

 

 

And the White Sox are in the Wild Card race until the last week of the season.

Edited May 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Either Kazmir, Tim Hudson, Phil Hughes, Feldman or Haren

 

A healthy Avisail Garcia

 

and a better lefty/loogy than Scott Downs...(in fact, if you subtract the money we've spent on Downs/Keppinger/Paulino/DeAza to sign one of those five veterans and a different lefty, that roster would still cost the same or less even)

 

 

And the White Sox are in the Wild Card race until the last week of the season.

 

Omg Caulfield, there is nobody I know that loves listing player names like you do and creating scenarios for them. Lmao

[Eminor3rd]

If 27 starts over 2 years is being a great pitcher over a long period of time, I think Jimenez and Santana have pretty much blown that away during their careers. We will see the numbers at the end of the season. One thing we know, Paulino isn't helping anyone win this year. The other 2 still have a chance and each have had several good starts.

 

They aren't even the same types of transactions -- the Sox decision NOT to go for Santana/Jimenez was completely unrelated to their decision to sign Paulino. Paulino was a shot-in-the-dark reclamation project. Santana/Jimenez were budget-blowing "final piece of contender" free agent moves.

 

That the latter two have been mostly bad at such high pay rates is indicative of the level of risk inherent in the deals. That combined with the fact that a LOT has gone right with our offense this year even to put us in around .500 is why they were NOT good risks for us to take. It's not like Hahn had the benefit of hindsight.

 

To me, this has been reasonably close to best-case-scenario for the season so far. If this is really a .500 team, then we are ready to start adding pieces as soon as next offseason. I'm not looking at this like I'm disappointed that we didn't take more risks, I'm looking at it that I'm pumped that the guys they got look to be good investments. They had to figure out what they had before risky FA deals on old guys, and thusfar it looks like we're figuring out that we have some real talent.

[Dick Allen]

You are going to play your semantics card, but I did state extended, not "long." He was good enough that people on here liked him at $1.5 million. I surely liked that gamble at $1.5 mill and no compensation a hell of a lot more than I did $14.1 mill and a pick or $50 million and a pick.

 

I also don't believe that we have seen the last of Paulino, but if he is done, they can just cut him and only owe him the remaining portion of his $1.5 mill. They could not do that with either Santana or Jimenez. It's not a big loss.

 

EDIT: I also find it funny that you are still defending a would be signing of Jimenez or Santana at this juncture. It's truly outrageous. You have made my day. Thanks for that.

You said fairly large period of time, and said he was "great" over this fairly large period of time. I, and most people here, if they were being honest, would say you are exhaggerating.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

You said fairly large period of time, and said he was "great" over this fairly large period of time. I, and most people here, if they were being honest, would say you are exhaggerating.

 

Yep

 

Paulino was also good between 2011 and 2012. Look it up yourself.

 

Seriously, it takes about 2 seconds to make sure exactly what I said. I probably should have clarified and said "pretty good," but keep fighting the great good fight.

 

[Dick Allen]

Yep

 

 

 

Seriously, it takes about 2 seconds to make sure exactly what I said. I probably should have clarified and said "pretty good," but keep fighting the great good fight.

And here it is post 107. Listen to your own advise, and look up what you wrote. LMAO

 

Also, believing that a guy with good stuff who was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time was going to be a good pitcher is not trolling. It's believing in something. I've already owned up to that.

[witesoxfan]

And here it is post 107. Listen to your own advise, and look up what you wrote. LMAO

 

Also, believing that a guy with good stuff who was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time was going to be a good pitcher is not trolling. It's believing in something. I've already owned up to that.

 

Good catch.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Wite is also the same guy who figured we could just DFA Gillaspie at the tend of ST rather than play the guy, should we need the playing time for the veteran crap on the roster.

 

Dick Allen is right more than wite is, and it troubles him deeply.

[witesoxfan]

Wite is also the same guy who figured we could just DFA Gillaspie at the tend of ST rather than play the guy, should we need the playing time for the veteran crap on the roster.

 

Dick Allen is right more than wite is, and it troubles him deeply.

 

How's Adam Dunn doing buddy?

[witesoxfan]

Also, at the end of the day, I still make the Addison Reed trade, WHICH WAS MY ENTIRE POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[chw42]

Also, at the end of the day, I still make the Addison Reed trade, WHICH WAS MY ENTIRE POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

Addison's a good pitcher, but his pitching motion sucks, he's somewhat inconsistent, and he has issues with the home run ball.

 

He wasn't flawless, not even close and when you can get a good 3B prospect for him in what was thought to be a lost year, along with a few guys in the bullpen that could pitch just as well, if not better, than him (Webb and Jones), then I don't see why you wouldn't trade him.

[The Ultimate Champion]

How's Adam Dunn doing buddy?

Back in the .230s again

 

BTW my whole issue was Dunn taking PA away from more deserving players. After Avi got hurt we actually needed someone.

 

Funny how YOU and so many members of Soxtalk were down on ALL of Gillaspie, DeAza and Viciedo, and acted as though shortened playing time for them because of Dunn was just a nonfactor, who cares. Well guess what, I was right you were wrong, because Connor and Viciedo it turns out actually WERE worth the PA far, far more than Dunn. And had the Sox started the year with DeAza in a comfortable spot where he wasn't out there in a platoon role playing for his job maybe he'd be doing a lot better than the high .100s he's been in for a while here.

 

So yeah, I was right the whole damn time and we only needed Dunn because Avi got hurt. If Avi doesn't get hurt then guess what genius, Viciedo is riding the pine and everyone at Soxtalk is willing to dump the guy for scraps, just like they feel toward DeAza right now. What a smart move that would be.

 

It's funny how when posters clean house and whoop that ass by making strong arguments how sometimes the mods cower from the onslaught and claim trolling. But I sir am a champion and I refuse to be trolled so f*** yeah.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Also I actually like Dunn now, he's been useful, but it's still time to trade him. The last thing this team needs to do is misinterpret heart as talent & then make backwards moves to try to become a more convincing pretender. Stay with the course. Trade Dunn, Tank to DH, play Sierra & let's see if he can be something decent for us. Or find someone else.

[witesoxfan]

Back in the .230s again

 

BTW my whole issue was Dunn taking PA away from more deserving players. After Avi got hurt we actually needed someone.

 

Funny how YOU and so many members of Soxtalk were down on ALL of Gillaspie, DeAza and Viciedo, and acted as though shortened playing time for them because of Dunn was just a nonfactor, who cares. Well guess what, I was right you were wrong, because Connor and Viciedo it turns out actually WERE worth the PA far, far more than Dunn. And had the Sox started the year with DeAza in a comfortable spot where he wasn't out there in a platoon role playing for his job maybe he'd be doing a lot better than the high .100s he's been in for a while here.

 

So yeah, I was right the whole damn time and we only needed Dunn because Avi got hurt. If Avi doesn't get hurt then guess what genius, Viciedo is riding the pine and everyone at Soxtalk is willing to dump the guy for scraps, just like they feel toward DeAza right now. What a smart move that would be.

 

It's funny how when posters clean house and whoop that ass by making strong arguments how sometimes the mods cower from the onslaught and claim trolling. But I sir am a champion and I refuse to be trolled so f*** yeah.

 

Except that you're wrong. He's walking at the highest rate of his career, he's hitting for power, and he's been a stabilizing force in the middle of the lineup. You wanted to cut him and eat $15 mill.

 

I always preferred to keep Gillaspie over Danks. I have always liked Viciedo, but had no problem with De Aza and Viciedo in a platoon role.

 

Also, you may be a champion but the true ultimate champion is Bill Goldberg.

[cabiness42]

Back in the .230s again

 

BTW my whole issue was Dunn taking PA away from more deserving players. After Avi got hurt we actually needed someone.

 

Funny how YOU and so many members of Soxtalk were down on ALL of Gillaspie, DeAza and Viciedo, and acted as though shortened playing time for them because of Dunn was just a nonfactor, who cares. Well guess what, I was right you were wrong, because Connor and Viciedo it turns out actually WERE worth the PA far, far more than Dunn. And had the Sox started the year with DeAza in a comfortable spot where he wasn't out there in a platoon role playing for his job maybe he'd be doing a lot better than the high .100s he's been in for a while here.

 

So yeah, I was right the whole damn time and we only needed Dunn because Avi got hurt. If Avi doesn't get hurt then guess what genius, Viciedo is riding the pine and everyone at Soxtalk is willing to dump the guy for scraps, just like they feel toward DeAza right now. What a smart move that would be.

 

It's funny how when posters clean house and whoop that ass by making strong arguments how sometimes the mods cower from the onslaught and claim trolling. But I sir am a champion and I refuse to be trolled so f*** yeah.

 

You cite the statistic of batting average and then wonder why people think you're trolling. If you aren't then the alternative is that you haven't the faintest clue how to measure the value of offensive performance. The #1 goal of a hitter is to not make an out, and Dunn is the second best on the team at doing that.

 

Dunn wasn't taking PA away from more deserving players. Before the year, neither De Aza nor Viciedo had proven enough to warrant getting playing time at DH. Even if Garcia doesn't get hurt, do you really think De Aza is playing over Dunn given the way the two have hit so far this year?

 

I wasn't down on Gillaspie. I said that I thought Davidson would eventually become the starter at 3B but that in the short term he was a worst a platoon player there.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Also, at the end of the day, I still make the Addison Reed trade, WHICH WAS MY ENTIRE POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You still deal Reed, but not for Davidson. The thought process behind the move was solid & Hahn shouldn't be criticized for it. But if you have a crystal ball you definitely don't get Davidson as things look now.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You cite the statistic of batting average and then wonder why people think you're trolling. If you aren't then the alternative is that you haven't the faintest clue how to measure the value of offensive performance. The #1 goal of a hitter is to not make an out, and Dunn is the second best on the team at doing that.

 

Dunn wasn't taking PA away from more deserving players. Before the year, neither De Aza nor Viciedo had proven enough to warrant getting playing time at DH. Even if Garcia doesn't get hurt, do you really think De Aza is playing over Dunn given the way the two have hit so far this year?

 

I wasn't down on Gillaspie. I said that I thought Davidson would eventually become the starter at 3B but that in the short term he was a worst a platoon player there.

Yes he was.

 

Obviously.

 

Who the f*** sat all day every day while Dunn took the field?

 

Viciedo.

 

I seriously am starting to think you just can't make connections or something. There are a finite number of PA to go around. Veteran players in contract years who have no chance at coming back and seem to guarantee a very minimal return best case scenario do not take away PA from younger, cheaper players under team control on rebuilding teams. The Dunn move was a Reinsdorf penny pinching move that was indefensible at the time and only turned out well because another younger core piece got hurt and missed the season.

 

Your bulls*** "logic" here applies equally to Avisail as it would to Viciedo. You don't sit either of those guys for Dunn.

 

Obviously.

Edited May 28, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[RockRaines]

LOL, so fired up. Easy fella.

[Eminor3rd]

LOL, so fired up. Easy fella.

 

TUC is all gas ALL THE TIME