Chris Sale

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

How well does the "we should just shut Sale down in May" and "Give him Tommy John Now" crowd look right now?

There was a crowd like that?

[chitownsportsfan]

Trading Chris Sale would be dumb because there is no way you're going to get fair value. You'd need a youngish, cheapish, proven MLB regular to start at a position of need (say someone like Wieters or Kyle Seager) and then you'd need at least two top 50 MLB prospects that are ready for promotion sometime in '15.

 

The teams that are in a position to make that trade? Probably just a handful -- Cubs maybe, Padres, Red Sox as well. Maybe Astros. And in reality you'd want two surefire starters and prospects, even top ones in the high minors, don't hit much more than 60-70% percent -- so maybe you ask for 4 top 100 guys instead -- don't know if any team is in a position to offer that -- because you'd probalby just rather keep those guys if that's the cost.

 

You rarely see superstar trades in baseball for a reason and it's just due to the nature of prospects and how value is assigned. One in the hand in MLB is often worth 4-5 "in the bush". And the teams with prospects "in the bush" are usually risk averse because they (probably rightly) feel that their prospects that they know are a surer bet to help them more long term than the one superstar.

 

In the NBA a superstar can tilt the scales way more than simply summing up a few draft picks or young talents. Not so much in MLB.

[southsider2k5]

Ok, this is where I struggle to understand the outrage when the mere mention of trading Sale is raised.

 

If we can go to market and buy 1 if not 2 aces, why is the idea met with such universal disdain?

 

The problem is two fold.

 

The biggest isn't the on the field product, is the off of the field perseption of the team. 20 years later, Sox fans STILL have the automatic reaction of WHITE FLAG to anything perceived as setting the franchise back in time.

 

The other problem is that Chris Sale is not only an ace, but he is the cheapest Ace in baseball, and he is that way for a really long time. That has a lot of do with what the market price of Chris Sale would be in a trade.

[iamshack]

The problem is two fold.

 

The biggest isn't the on the field product, is the off of the field perseption of the team. 20 years later, Sox fans STILL have the automatic reaction of WHITE FLAG to anything perceived as setting the franchise back in time.

 

The other problem is that Chris Sale is not only an ace, but he is the cheapest Ace in baseball, and he is that way for a really long time. That has a lot of do with what the market price of Chris Sale would be in a trade.

I don't buy into that white flag nonsense. These fans aren't coming out anyways. Get a team on the field that wins consistently, and the fans will show up.

 

I understand Sale's value. My argument was premised on the idea of getting something close to full value for him. If that is simply impossible, than it makes no sense to move him. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there are players in baseball that are simply immovable, and Chris should not be considered as such.

[southsider2k5]

I don't buy into that white flag nonsense. These fans aren't coming out anyways. Get a team on the field that wins consistently, and the fans will show up.

 

I understand Sale's value. My argument was premised on the idea of getting something close to full value for him. If that is simply impossible, than it makes no sense to move him. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there are players in baseball that are simply immovable, and Chris should not be considered as such.

 

You can "not buy into it", but it is a real consideration for the front office, and it is the reason we could really never do a full rebuild like the Astros or Cubs. It is also the reason we could never trade a Cy Young calibur Chris Sale.

[Balta1701]

I don't buy into that white flag nonsense. These fans aren't coming out anyways. Get a team on the field that wins consistently, and the fans will show up.

 

I understand Sale's value. My argument was premised on the idea of getting something close to full value for him. If that is simply impossible, than it makes no sense to move him. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there are players in baseball that are simply immovable, and Chris should not be considered as such.

What was the setup for the proposed Cardinals concept trade for all their top flight players that people thought about last year and how would that look for the white sox if it was done?

[iamshack]

What was the setup for the proposed Cardinals concept trade for all their top flight players that people thought about last year and how would that look for the white sox if it was done?

I have no idea. I don't believe there are many packages out there of "pure" prospects that I would move him for. I'd likely need at least one guy who has shown he can get it done at the mlb level.

[Balta1701]

I have no idea. I don't believe there are many packages out there of "pure" prospects that I would move him for. I'd likely need at least one guy who has shown he can get it done at the mlb level.

I keep coming back to that because a) that's the one I heard most, b) Oscar Tavares was key in a lot of those and he is at least looking like a guy who will need some time at the big league level before he breaks out, c) Michael Wacha might have fit your request for a guy who had already succeeded in the bigs but he's been injured this year. Matt Adams was on a number of people's lists, but we found a slightly better 1b and he's been less effective this year as a full time player than he was last year.

 

Right now you'd look at a deal done last year where we'd fleeced the Cardinals for 4 top prospects and think we were better off in 2014-2015 with Chris Sale. That could change long term, but even in the setup you're asking for, with guys who in the high minors and have shown up in the bigs...Sale still looks like a better bet.

[iamshack]

I keep coming back to that because a) that's the one I heard most, b) Oscar Tavares was key in a lot of those and he is at least looking like a guy who will need some time at the big league level before he breaks out, c) Michael Wacha might have fit your request for a guy who had already succeeded in the bigs but he's been injured this year. Matt Adams was on a number of people's lists, but we found a slightly better 1b and he's been less effective this year as a full time player than he was last year.

 

Right now you'd look at a deal done last year where we'd fleeced the Cardinals for 4 top prospects and think we were better off in 2014-2015 with Chris Sale. That could change long term, but even in the setup you're asking for, with guys who in the high minors and have shown up in the bigs...Sale still looks like a better bet.

Well, I am not the biggest fan of Adams, but it isn't like Sale has gotten us anything more this year than those guys would have, other than a worse draft pick.

[Balta1701]

Well, I am not the biggest fan of Adams, but it isn't like Sale has gotten us anything more this year than those guys would have, other than a worse draft pick.

Added together, trading away Sale for a package, even a top flight package, does two things; it dramatically decreases our near-term performance and it dramatically increases our long-term risk.

 

That's a hard pair to stomach, hence why I can't come up with any conceivable package that works. Every time someone has said we should trade Sale I've responded "Mike Trout's available"? I think that's a fair point. 2 years ago Bryce Harper was on that list with Trout, but he isn't there yet either and there's an injury worry.

[iamshack]

Added together, trading away Sale for a package, even a top flight package, does two things; it dramatically decreases our near-term performance and it dramatically increases our long-term risk.

 

That's a hard pair to stomach, hence why I can't come up with any conceivable package that works. Every time someone has said we should trade Sale I've responded "Mike Trout's available"? I think that's a fair point. 2 years ago Bryce Harper was on that list with Trout, but he isn't there yet either and there's an injury worry.

Yeah, there is going to definitely be risk, but there has to be upside as well. The near-term performance is pretty meaningless to me since being more mediocre as a result of Sale doesn't really help matters much.

 

This is why I would require some kind of budding mlb star, to at least limit your worst-case scenario if the prospects were to all fail to reach expectations. You're likely looking at a team that has a surplus at a position of need for us, and then a stable of prospects to choose from.

 

Definitely not easy to do, but not something that should be dismissed on principle.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Added together, trading away Sale for a package, even a top flight package, does two things; it dramatically decreases our near-term performance and it dramatically increases our long-term risk.

 

That's a hard pair to stomach, hence why I can't come up with any conceivable package that works. Every time someone has said we should trade Sale I've responded "Mike Trout's available"? I think that's a fair point. 2 years ago Bryce Harper was on that list with Trout, but he isn't there yet either and there's an injury worry.

 

Taveras, Wacha, Martinez, and Wong (or Adams). All of which are performing at ML level at this point. Had we made the trade last year, it would have been impressive as rarely would you yield 100% major leaguers in a trade package.

 

Wong/Adams, and Wacha are all 3 WAR players if they played a full season this year. Taveras has progressed in the second half this year and still looks like he can win a batting title in 2 years. Martinez, if nothing else, can throw 100 mph and is a future closer candidate if not a mid rotation starter.

 

I would argue the long term risk of this deal is fairly low compared to other trade packages, and at the same time, I would come back to the health of Chris Sale being a bigger long term risk.

[elrockinMT]

If you want to compete in 2015 and for a few more years after that you don't trade Sale or those who are performing at a high level. I see our problem as being a poor bullpen. We have money to spend and hopefully we can improve that sore spot. I think trading your best for untested youth is simply keeping you in the second tier for a long time.

[TitoMB345]

Safe to say Sale has lost his shot at the Cy Young :-/

 

I am still confident he will win one in his career, and I really, really hope it's with the Sox.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I don't buy into that white flag nonsense. These fans aren't coming out anyways. Get a team on the field that wins consistently, and the fans will show up.

 

I understand Sale's value. My argument was premised on the idea of getting something close to full value for him. If that is simply impossible, than it makes no sense to move him. What I'm saying is that I don't believe there are players in baseball that are simply immovable, and Chris should not be considered as such.

Ultimately full value for Chris Sale is Chris Sale, i.e. another young ace under contract for a very long time basically paid nothing when his deal is put up against everyone else's.

 

But even if you could trade Chris Sale for Chris Sale, why would you bother to make that trade? What would be the point?

 

Really "full value" for Chris Sale is Chris Sale plus whatever extra is necessary to make it reasonable to do the deal, i.e. make it more than a lateral move.

 

So basically full value for Chris Sale is someone who is as good as Sale and is as cheap as Sale for as long as Sale and then you get another nice player on top of it.

 

Who can make that deal? Good f***ing luck with that!

 

The only thing other teams would trade, even for Sale, are a bunch of unproven prospects most of whom will either bust or drastically underachieve, OR best case you get a team like the Marlins to give you Stanton & Cosart or something, which is a lot of talent but that's a deal they'd only offer because they didn't feel like they could pay Stanton. So in either case you're either trading the best player in the deal with pretty much zero reason to expect a player in return who will ever be as good as Sale is now and/or you're getting someone who is also elite but who you now have to fork over a s***load of money for. And why would that make sense? Just sign a FA.

 

Sale is "untradable" because he's so damn great and cheap and awesome and cornerstoney that the return you'd need would bo so f***ing outrageous that other teams just can not or would not do it.

 

It's like, Sale to the Cubs for their farm system. Why would they do that? And why would we take Kris Bryant and a piece or two for Sale when Bryant isn't a MLB player and doesn't have a proven history of success and isn't signed for a pittance long-term? The Sox would be stupid to not ask for a stupid return and the Cubs would see the requested return as too stupid to pull the trigger on. And they're probably the best trade partner.

 

s*** the last thing we need to do is give up Sale for a couple Gordon Beckhams and Dayan Viceidos. Can you imagine what kind of package we may have been able to land had we thrown Beckham + Tank + Dan Hudson + Poreda + Flowers out there a few years ago? Maybe even a young ace who would light the world on fire. And if we made that deal the other team would have gotten f***ing hosed. s***.... what a year makes re: that "horrible" Shields trade huh? Oh wait I guess Wil Myers really isn't the second coming. Yeah you don't trade Sale because you just lose in the end of you do. Sale = we won, at least in one spot on the 25-man roster. Abreu too. We won it all on 2/25ths of our roster, so let's keep those guys.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Safe to say Sale has lost his shot at the Cy Young :-/

 

I am still confident he will win one in his career, and I really, really hope it's with the Sox.

Well I dont' know who else it would be with. We have him for all his prime years.

 

The funny thing about Sale is that there is still room for improvement with him, still the chance that he becomes even more of a Maddux-like mindf***er. He's certainly trying. It seems like most of the damage done has been in big key spots he couldn't get out of, basically coming down to pitch sequence and predicatability and stuff. He might win the Cy next year with a 1.75 ERA for all we know. It's actually funny watching him pitch and looking at his numbers on paper, it's like "What?" It's hard to even believe he's as good as he is.

 

I'm not worried. Stay healthy and Sale is as good of a bet as anyone to win the Cy any single year.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Also here's another thing to consider about a possible Sale trade:

 

2014: .234 .307 .395 .702

2014: No plate appearances recorded

^The lines of Byron Buxton & Miguel Sano this season.

 

From John Sickels, last October:

1) Byron Buxton, OF, Grade A: Currently the best prospect in baseball, combining outstanding athleticism, speed, on-base ability, developing power, and superior defense. He is currently equal to or slightly ahead of where Mike Trout was at the same stage of his career, with one pro season under his belt. That doesn't mean Buxton will be as good as Trout, of course, but it does indicate superstar-caliber ability. ETA: late 2014 or 2015.

 

2) Miguel Sano, 3B, Grade A: Power-mashing beast, comparable to a young Miguel Cabrera. He may not hit for the high averages that the mature Cabrera has produced, but power should be similar. Sano has made a lot of progress with the glove and a move to first base is not automatic. ETA: late 2014.

 

From yahoo last year:

"Buxton balances tremendous bat-to-ball ability with keen plate discipline, burgeoning power, an elite arm, game-changing speed and strong route running. If there is a Mike Trout 2.0, he is it, though because of his lithe body, a better comparison is Eric Davis. Sano is a monster, 6-foot-3 and 250 pounds now, and has hit the ball a mile since his early teens. He will win a home run crown someday. The only question about him is whether he can stay at third long-term, and the way his bat plays, it doesn't really matter."

 

From MLB.com

"1. Byron Buxton, OF

Preseason rank: 1

MLB Top 100 rank: 1 (Preseason: 1)

ETA: 2015

Scouting grades: Hit: 70 | Power: 60 | Run: 80 | Arm: 70 | Field: 75 | Overall: 75

 

Buxton took the Minor Leagues by storm in his first full professional season, showing why many evaluators had rated him as the top talent in the 2012 Draft class. He appeared poised to continue his Mike Trout-like climb to the big leagues when a wrist injury initially suffered in Spring Training forced him to miss a large amount of the 2014 season.

 

Assuming Buxton doesn't have any lingering effects upon his return, he'll get back to showing he's a legitimate five-tool player. He has a simple, direct swing and creates excellent bat speed. Buxton's power has already been better than expected, and scouts expect it to improve more as he grows. His speed grades out at the top of the scale and he knows how to use it on the basepaths. Defensively, Buxton covers plenty of ground in center field and has good instincts in the outfield.

 

The Twins are traditionally conservative in their developmental timelines, though Buxton had put himself on an accelerated track to the Major Leagues before his injury.

 

2. Miguel Sano, 3B

Preseason rank: 2

MLB Top 100 rank: 10 (Preseason: 4)

ETA: 2015

Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 75 | Run: 40 | Arm: 70 | Field: 40 | Overall: 65

 

Sano was in the spotlight even before he signed with the Twins in 2009 for $3.15 million, a club record for an international player. But since reaching the professional ranks, he has shown what all the fuss is about.

 

Sano has prodigious raw power and knows how to use it in games. He hit 35 home runs between Class A Advanced Fort Myers and Double-A New Britain in 2013. With Sano's power, however, comes a lot of swings and misses. He has struck out more than 140 times in both of his years in full-season ball.

 

Sano's defense continues to be a question mark. He has made strides at third base, but some scouts believe he is destined to move across the diamond to first base. An elbow injury that required Tommy John surgery in Spring Training and will sideline Sano for the 2014 season complicates his future, but Minnesota will find a place to play him if he keeps pounding the ball."

 

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2013/07...says_videos.php

^From this article:

The piece also contains this glowing quote about Buxton from a longtime National League scout: "I am positive he's the best prospect I've seen in [more than a decade] of full-time scouting... It's not even close. Tools, athleticism, feel and vision. Time will tell what kind of major league player he becomes, but the sky is the limit."

 

"Joe Mauer, Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols, that's the grouping I have him in as far as pure hitting approach," the scout continued.

 

But while Buxton's rare combination of speed, power, and instincts is drawing lots of comparisons to Mike Trout, the Angels outfielder who tore up the Midwest League and then went on to be the AL's Rookie of the Year and an All-Star during his age-20 2012 rookie season, Twins VP of player personnel Mike Radcliff told Baseball America Buxton is still probably a year or more away from making his big-league debut.

 

Unless, of course, he continues to play like a Barry Bonds-Willie Mays hybrid

 

^There's one of the many Willie Mays comps made re: Buxton in the last year.

 

Where are we now?

 

Let's say we had in January traded Sale for Buxton, Sano, and Kohl Stewart the Twins #3 prospect. We'd have the greatest thing since sliced bread with wrist issues, someone who didn't play at all and would be coming back from major injury, and a 19 year old who threw 87 innings in A ball.

 

Anyone wanna guess what most of us would be thinking right about now?

 

Probably "f***.... these guys better turn out."

 

And you could say I'm just cherry picking here but I'm not, this is how the game works, how it has always worked. Go trade Sale for all the greatest prospects in the world and then watch how we lose that deal.

Edited September 18, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[TitoMB345]

Well I dont' know who else it would be with. We have him for all his prime years.

 

The funny thing about Sale is that there is still room for improvement with him, still the chance that he becomes even more of a Maddux-like mindf***er. He's certainly trying. It seems like most of the damage done has been in big key spots he couldn't get out of, basically coming down to pitch sequence and predicatability and stuff. He might win the Cy next year with a 1.75 ERA for all we know. It's actually funny watching him pitch and looking at his numbers on paper, it's like "What?" It's hard to even believe he's as good as he is.

 

I'm not worried. Stay healthy and Sale is as good of a bet as anyone to win the Cy any single year.

I threw that part in because of the discussion of trading Sale (don't f***ing trade him!)

[GreenSox]

Full value for Sale is Sale; but the, why trade Sale for Sale?

So what is a fair trade - how many top prospects- lottery tickets- is one of the top pitchers in baseball worth? 3?

 

 

I would have shut Sale down for the year a while back.

September for a team like this should be geared 100% to looking at young players.

[TitoMB345]

Full value for Sale is Sale; but the, why trade Sale for Sale?

So what is a fair trade - how many top prospects- lottery tickets- is one of the top pitchers in baseball worth? 3?

 

 

I would have shut Sale down for the year a while back.

September for a team like this should be geared 100% to looking at young players.

 

Lol. You'd shut down the only guy who is going to draw big numbers at your park? Nice.

[BlackSox13]

Lol, I remember TUC had this debate last winter, tho I forget the thread. Trading Sale for the world sounds tantalizing and all but in the end I doubt seriously any GM would or could give up true value for Sale. The haul it would take to get Sale would be so huge that the other teams fan base would likely want their GM's head on a silver platter. Sale's age, skill and contract probably make him so valuable that's its difficult to put an accurate value on him. I wouldn't have a clue as to where to begin much less try to figure out which team could be a legit trade partner.

 

Honestly, I'm not attached to any Sox player and am willing to trade any player including Sale for the right price but with Sale, what the f*** is the right price and who would pay it? I could easily get on board with the idea of trading Sale but without knowing those two things, forget it.

[The Ultimate Champion]

GMing is really an art of of performance and salary forecasting. "Ceilings" and "floors" are important because you reed to know what ranges to make your forecasts in.

 

Sale is a known quantity. His performance ceiling he has already reached - UNLESS you feel he actually has room to improve. He's arguably not even at his ceiling yet. Performance floor on him is what? If he's healthy at all he's going to be a top-3 or 5 LHSP in the league even in a down year for him.

 

Cost ceiling? Look at Kershaw's deal, and go with that or higher, not necessarily in years but as an annual salary, because as a general rule the contracts just go up year after year, and the gap between stars and superstars widens further. Sale right now on the FA market gets what, at an annual salary around Kershaw probably even if fewer years, and in 2 years or so? What does he get then? Sale's cost ceiling has already been set by his contract. It's .... it's actually unfair how little he is being paid. Cost floor is what? Again, assuming he is physically healthy, the cost floor is still a steal even at his performance floor.

 

Really the question on Sale is what it has always been, health, durability, and it's all based on a fear of "poor mechanics" and so in that respect the entire foundation of the fear really isn't as much a science as it is a guesstimate. There's really no reason in the world to believe Sale is definitely, 100% going to get hurt during the life of his contract while some other guy who is more conventional is going to stay healthy. That is a market inefficiency in itself right, that we are capitalizing on? Why use the same market inefficiency that we are taking advantage of as a reason to trade of a player who represents one of the single greatest values in baseball? How does that make any sense?

 

So Sale is pretty much absolute best case scenario. If you trade him, what are you getting?

 

Again, GMing is an art of forecasting. When you are forecasting Sale from a cost standpoint and a performance standpoint, you are ending up with dollar figures and baseball statistics that make you a very happy man. And what's really great about it is that the player you are forecasting is very young, already elite, in his prime with a lot of those years to come or so it seems AND you have a track record of performance *behind* those future forecasts which is what those forecasts are based on in the first place. There is actually *substance* there.

 

Compare this to a prospect, an unsigned player on a MiLB contract. First off, worried about Sale's health are you? Sale is in the Majors and has been healthy in the Majors. None of these guys have that record of health yet, no matter how much cleaner you think their mechanics are. Secondly, the cost ceiling and floors are undefined unless you really stick your neck out there because generally there needs to be some actual MLB performance before those figures get out. But the performance ceilings and floors, what are they based on? Scouting opinions? Gut feelings? Do you just "know" this kid is going to be great? Are they baseless computer projections? General trends? Are the based on bulls*** MiLB stats against vastly inferior competition? Whatever they are based on, basically they are based on nothing. They are predictions, that's it. There is no track record, there is no substance. It's a shot in the dark.

 

How many lottery tickets is your house worth?

 

Trading Sale for a bunch of prospects would be like if you had all this stock in a strong, healthy company in no real threat of danger and selling it all and then taking that cash and using it to fund a bunch of small startups led by bright people with some great ideas. Oh, these guys have this product that is so great and yadda yadda yadda its going to revolutionize that industry. No it won't. You're probably not going to get rich, even though theoretically you could. Taking the fruit of one very safe and sound asset which itself was the product of a series of smart decisions and then trading it away for a bunch of more exciting hit-or-miss opportunities isn't the wisest thing to do at least not unless you have like 6 Sales laying around and you only need 5 of them and one is basically redundant. Well unfortunately we don't have that problem and so fair value for Sale would mean actual, forecastable MLB value in terms of statistics etc. and at a massive cost savings. We'll give you Sale and then you give us a s***load of already very good young and proven MLB players at great cost certainty OR you give us a Sale-like young star, and then add in whatever else is necessary to make up for the disparity in contract cost vs. performance value. Right. Not happening. No team is going to make themselves worse to get better. Neither should we. That's why we keep Sale.

Edited September 18, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[The Ultimate Champion]

Lol, I remember TUC had this debate last winter, tho I forget the thread. Trading Sale for the world sounds tantalizing and all but in the end I doubt seriously any GM would or could give up true value for Sale. The haul it would take to get Sale would be so huge that the other teams fan base would likely want their GM's head on a silver platter. Sale's age, skill and contract probably make him so valuable that's its difficult to put an accurate value on him. I wouldn't have a clue as to where to begin much less try to figure out which team could be a legit trade partner.

 

Honestly, I'm not attached to any Sox player and am willing to trade any player including Sale for the right price but with Sale, what the f*** is the right price and who would pay it? I could easily get on board with the idea of trading Sale but without knowing those two things, forget it.

We're going to go through this all again over the offseason.

 

IIRC last offseason I proposed the creation of a "Trade Sale" forum which would be used to make money for the site. Funnel the MLB.com & MLBTR posters over into that forum (keep them off this part of the forum) and post a bunch of banner ads in there for like penis enlargement pills & mail order brides & insurance stuff & legal ads (need to make sure you have your will striaght and everything insured before you bring over that Russian bride) and then we could have the Sale trade thread links in that forum all small in this tiny font with the banner ads all big, so that way when the MLB.com & MLBTR posters tried to post in the threads they'd just click on the dick pills and stuff, and then money would be made for the site. Smart huh?

 

See I thought this was a great idea & it's one of the reasons I should be a mod with Ban/kill power. But IIRC the mods just glossed over my posts like they always do

[BlackSox13]

We're going to go through this all again over the offseason.

 

IIRC last offseason I proposed the creation of a "Trade Sale" forum which would be used to make money for the site. Funnel the MLB.com & MLBTR posters over into that forum (keep them off this part of the forum) and post a bunch of banner ads in there for like penis enlargement pills & mail order brides & insurance stuff & legal ads (need to make sure you have your will striaght and everything insured before you bring over that Russian bride) and then we could have the Sale trade thread links in that forum all small in this tiny font with the banner ads all big, so that way when the MLB.com & MLBTR posters tried to post in the threads they'd just click on the dick pills and stuff, and then money would be made for the site. Smart huh?

 

See I thought this was a great idea & it's one of the reasons I should be a mod with Ban/kill power. But IIRC the mods just glossed over my posts like they always do

 

I can always count on you for the interesting posts. I like the idea. Hell, maybe offer free pills to posters with reasonable trade proposals.

 

Just for s***s and giggles. Do you think the Dodgers top 4 of Seager, Urias, Pederson and Holmes would come close?

[The Ultimate Champion]

 

I can always count on you for the interesting posts. I like the idea. Hell, maybe offer free pills to posters with reasonable trade proposals.

 

Just for s***s and giggles. Do you think the Dodgers top 4 of Seager, Urias, Pederson and Holmes would come close?

I'm f***ing serious man, I think it's a great idea.

 

Look, I made a prototype.

 

Edited September 18, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion