Should the Sox market Quintana for a trade?

[Marty34]

And your opinion is that it isn't so they should trade off that core and then spend several large FA contracts to replace that core next year, thus guaranteeing that they have neither flexibility nor the resources to add in the future.

 

My position is that it is in place.

[Balta1701]

My position is that it is in place.

Which is why you also advocated trading away sale, Quintana, and Abreu.

 

Because it's the only way to make sure that the core you now say is in place is ruined. Great way to make sure te years of losing you want happens.

[Eminor3rd]

I don't think there should be a magic wins number they have to get to before they spend money on pitching. The current state of the minor leagues, coupled with the position core basically being in place, dictates that they need to.

 

But wins is how you tell if the core is in place.

[Marty34]

Which is why you also advocated trading away sale, Quintana, and Abreu.

 

Because it's the only way to make sure that the core you now say is in place is ruined. Great way to make sure te years of losing you want happens.

 

If they are not willing to spend significant money to upgrade the starting rotation this core is not good enough to carry this rotation and there is nothing in the minors that will help the rotation anytime soon.

 

I know you were optimistic (many would say overly so) about the pitching depth in the organization before this season began, unfortunately your optimism has been proven to be unfounded.

[ewokpelts]

Pros -

At the height of his value given age/contract status/performance/track record

Reasonable contract that will fit into almost any teams payroll

Would bring the best return of anyone on the roster outside of Sale and Abreu

The market for starting pitching may be crazy this summer with all of the injuries that have happened to other starters on contending teams.

 

Cons -

Quality starting pitching is hard to find for a reasonable amount

Prospect laden deals are hit and miss, emphasis on the miss

Contract makes he and Sale very affordable through 2020

Seeing as I just bought a bunch of his autograph cards, no.

[2nd_city_saint787]

If they are not willing to spend significant money to upgrade the starting rotation this core is not good enough to carry this rotation and there is nothing in the minors that will help the rotation anytime soon.

 

I know you were optimistic (many would say overly so) about the pitching depth in the organization before this season began, unfortunately your optimism has been proven to be unfounded.

 

Who says they won't be willing next year?

 

This past offseason just wasn't the time to do it IMO. Too many question marks(both "positive" and "negative") to add high priced players.

[Chicago White Sox]

Who says they won't be willing next year?

 

This past offseason just wasn't the time to do it IMO. Too many question marks(both "positive" and "negative") to add high priced players.

Yup, I have no doubt in my mind that Hahn will be active in free agency next offseason. We should have a ton of money to play with and a lot less holes to fill than we did coming into this season. I think getting a #2/#3 caliber starter, preferably right-handed, will be the primary goal of the winter.

 

James Shields would probably be the perfect addition and his age may prevent him from getting an obscene number years in any deal. If we could somehow land him, you're talking about one of the best #1/#2/#3 in baseball in Sale/Shields/Quintana. Between Danks, Johnson, Rienzo, and maybe even Beck, I think we could find two decent enough starters to round out the group and still have one of the better rotations. This doesn't even consider the possibility of us drafting Rodon, who'd likely be ready by 2016.

 

Again, getting another top end starter is our crucial pitching need. Get that guy, and I think will prioritize this need, and I think we have enough pitching depth to fill out the back end of the rotation.

[caulfield12]

The irony with Shields is that he's going to be the last dagger in Dayton Moore, even though both Shields and Wade Davis have been great for the Royals.

 

Just like the White Sox in 2000-01, the Royals had a #1 farm system and 9 guys in the Top 100. (A further irony being the main contribution of that depth was to allow the acquisition of Garcia with Reed/Olivo/Morse).

 

Right now, they pretty have nothing to show for it, other than Alex Gordon, who they will lose after next season, Shields after this season...and both Salvador Perez and Yordano Ventura, who were more "under the radar" types who burst on the scene, rather than the pedigreed guys like Hosmer and Moustakas.

 

Even Bubba Starling, a recent first round draft pick still hitting under .200 in the low minors is going back to what worked for him in high school.

 

We thought Walker was bad, but the Royals have had five hitting coaches in less than 2 full seasons.

 

 

All of this goes to show that even you if you have built a young core of position players, there are no guarantees...especially if you don't have the pitching to go with it.

Edited June 1, 2014 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Yup, I have no doubt in my mind that Hahn will be active in free agency next offseason. We should have a ton of money to play with and a lot less holes to fill than we did coming into this season. I think getting a #2/#3 caliber starter, preferably right-handed, will be the primary goal of the winter.

 

James Shields would probably be the perfect addition and his age may prevent him from getting an obscene number years in any deal. If we could somehow land him, you're talking about one of the best #1/#2/#3 in baseball in Sale/Shields/Quintana. Between Danks, Johnson, Rienzo, and maybe even Beck, I think we could find two decent enough starters to round out the group and still have one of the better rotations. This doesn't even consider the possibility of us drafting Rodon, who'd likely be ready by 2016.

 

Again, getting another top end starter is our crucial pitching need. Get that guy, and I think will prioritize this need, and I think we have enough pitching depth to fill out the back end of the rotation.

 

I think you have to get a solid #4 as well in order to allow for the possibility that Sale is best utilized for around 30 starts a year during the regular season. Hopefully Johnson shows enough to make it as long man in the pen and he would be the fill in for the starts Sale misses. Rienzo, I think ultimately is a set up guy.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

The irony with Shields is that he's going to be the last dagger in Dayton Moore, even though both Shields and Wade Davis have been great for the Royals.

 

Just like the White Sox in 2000-01, the Royals had a #1 farm system and 9 guys in the Top 100. (A further irony being the main contribution of that depth was to allow the acquisition of Garcia with Reed/Olivo/Morse).

 

Right now, they pretty have nothing to show for it, other than Alex Gordon, who they will lose after next season, Shields after this season...and both Salvador Perez and Yordano Ventura, who were more "under the radar" types who burst on the scene, rather than the pedigreed guys like Hosmer and Moustakas.

 

Even Bubba Starling, a recent first round draft pick still hitting under .200 in the low minors is going back to what worked for him in high school.

 

We thought Walker was bad, but the Royals have had five hitting coaches in less than 2 full seasons.

 

 

All of this goes to show that even you if you have built a young core of position players, there are no guarantees...especially if you don't have the pitching to go with it.

 

Exactly why I was never on board trading sale or Q. No guarantees that it will work out.

[caulfield12]

I think you have to get a solid #4 as well in order to allow for the possibility that Sale is best utilized for around 30 starts a year during the regular season. Hopefully Johnson shows enough to make it as long man in the pen and he would be the fill in for the starts Sale misses. Rienzo, I think ultimately is a set up guy.

 

 

If our best hope if for Johnson to be the long man in the bullpen and make 3-5 starts per year, we're going to have no choice but to go the FA agent route, get a collegiate arm with the 3 pick and/or find more waiver wire guys like Humber/Noesi/Carroll or McHugh with the Astros.

 

And Danks has to look closer to a 3 than a 5/long man (aka Barry Zito) for the remainder of his contract.

[Balta1701]

If our best hope if for Johnson to be the long man in the bullpen and make 3-5 starts per year, we're going to have no choice but to go the FA agent route, get a collegiate arm with the 3 pick and/or find more waiver wire guys like Humber/Noesi/Carroll or McHugh with the Astros.

 

And Danks has to look closer to a 3 than a 5/long man (aka Barry Zito) for the remainder of his contract.

That's not "our" best hope. That's what Marty hopes for.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think you have to get a solid #4 as well in order to allow for the possibility that Sale is best utilized for around 30 starts a year during the regular season. Hopefully Johnson shows enough to make it as long man in the pen and he would be the fill in for the starts Sale misses. Rienzo, I think ultimately is a set up guy.

Way too early to write off Johnson, we need to understand what's causing his velocity decrease and whether it's temporary or permanent. If that velocity does return, then he has more than enough talent to be a quality #4.

[harfman77]

And by trading Quintana you hope to, at best, get Quintana back.

 

That's not true, at best, you hope for three Quintanas back, at worst you hope for one back.

 

As a sample deal - the Sox send Quintana and Beckham to the BJ's for Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, Roberto Osuna and a throw in like Rowdy Tellez or Adonys Cardona. Sanchez is likely ready to step into Q's spot in the rotation by September, Norris can fill a spot next summer, and Osuna is a high upside guy that would fill a slot in 2-3 seasons.

[witesoxfan]

One thing that is great about Q's development is that he seems to have created a fairly wide strikezone for himself. He'll work up and down, in and out. He's a control pitcher who can hit the corners and get the borderline calls, which is going to naturally prompt a hitter to chase more often. And the fact that he'll pitch inside, that's really where he's going to continue to become more dangerous. When hitters get looking away & he keeps going back out there his fastball doesn't play that well, but he can routinely blow guys away on the outside part of the plate with it by mixing things up and going in with fastball.

 

Someone posted a video of Pedro in another thread, and while Q is not Pedro, it is amazing to watch a pitcher than can front door a slider and then go away with the fastball, or go in with the heat and back door the slider. Q isn't nasty like Pedro but he's got better stuff than Brad Radke & Radke was someone who used the whole zone to his benefit. If Q is a better Radke then that's a pretty good pitcher. And Q is someone that can really shut you do in sequence, which really is a tough thing to do in reality even if it's easy to do in a video game. Most guys can't go in and out at the same time without leaving something right over the middle of the plate. Q doesn't do that much & when he does miss he's usually missing off the plate rather than over it. I expect him to just get better.

 

I'm in the boat with those who think we need more pitching, not less. But if you get something stupid thrown at you then that's different, but it has to be much more than a fair deal for sure. It's unlikely that would happen.

 

I can't believe it took me this long to see this. Brad Radke had incredible "stuff." People get thrown off by the 89-92 (or by the end, 83-86), but his changeup was phenomenal, probably the best in the league. Quintana cannot say that.

[Kyyle23]

I remember Radke had that one year when he threw like 40 home runs, and after that he settled down into the "I will put you out of your misery after Santana beat you up" role.

[southsider2k5]

Christopher Kamka ‏@ckamka 10h

 

Mark Buehrle & @jose_quintana24 tied for MLB lead among lefties with 10 quality starts this season.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Christopher Kamka ‏@ckamka 10h

 

Mark Buehrle & @jose_quintana24 tied for MLB lead among lefties with 10 quality starts this season.

 

 

Yep. If Q were pitching for Toronto, the W-L record would look better. Not that it matters.