Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) So...the White Sox should trade for young pitching that will then take 2 to 3 years to develop becuase that's the norm for young pitching (see for example, Jose Quintana's development, Chris Sale's development). You really want this team to lose for the next 2-3 years don't you? Balta, there is no pitching coming through that system anytime soon. If the White Sox are unwilling to spend roughly $120M on free agent starters next year I think they'd be better served to tear it down. Per Cott's they have $46M in commitments next year, what frightens you about bumping that to ~$70M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) Balta, there is no pitching coming through that system anytime soon. If the White Sox are unwilling to spend roughly $120M on free agent starters next year I think they'd be better served to tear it down. Per Cott's they have $46M in commitments next year, what frightens you about bumping that to ~$70M? If you think the White Sox should "Tear it down" then you can't tell me that" 2 or 3 years.... is just too long given the injury risks to any pitcher" because 2-3 years of losing is what you're demanding. BUt then again, just like the last couple years, multilple years of losing and failure is what you constantly advocate for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) If you think the White Sox should "Tear it down" then you can't tell me that" 2 or 3 years.... is just too long given the injury risks to any pitcher" because 2-3 years of losing is what you're demanding. BUt then again, just like the last couple years, multilple years of losing and failure is what you constantly advocate for. The prospect haul you would get for Sale and Quintana would expedite the rebuilding. Hell, throw in Abreu too. What scares you so much about a payroll commitment of $70M for 2015? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) The prospect haul you would get for Sale and Quintana would expedite the rebuilding. Hell, throw in Abreu too. What scares you so much about a payroll commitment of $70M for 2015? Losing 99 games and another 25% decrease in attendance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) The prospect haul you would get for Sale and Quintana would expedite the rebuilding. Hell, throw in Abreu too. What scares you so much about a payroll commitment of $70M for 2015? At the least you're finally being honest. You want the White Sox to do the half-decade+ of losing like the Cubs and Astros have done. Clear out everything, lose 100 ever year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) Losing 99 games and another 25% decrease in attendance? Ok, you think there is a good possibility that they will lose 99 games and suffer a 25% attendance decrease if they add 2 free agent starters who cost $120M next year. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 the sox fan will not wait too many yrs for the rebuilding to get done. getting Jose A may be a liking pulling the rabbit out of the hat..... we got very lucky and the attitude as a whole has change with him. I like the idea thinking and / or debating on whether we should look into trading Jose Q, let me mention why I would not be for that. Someof which has mention before. 1. the net return of what we think Q is worth will not be the same value the other team thinks his value is. 2. the prospects will take yrs to develop if the trade is done. 3. the window of opportunity is now, imagining we keep the team as is, without the benefit of trades, we have: sp – #1 sale #2 Q #3 ?? #4 danks #5 ?? field – 1b – Jose A 2b – Gordon ss - Alexie 3b – Conor rf – Avi cf – Adam lf – Dayan cat – Flowers DH - ?? if we draft a ready to start pitcher in the draft, he may be able to slid into #5 in the rotation, we go out and pick a FA sp for #3 and possible a dh. We can compete next yr. It is not a pipe dream, but then again 2 majors if's. Ummm btw... I wonder what they mean by pipe dream.... smoking what??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) Ok, you think there is a good possibility that they will lose 99 games and suffer a 25% attendance decrease if they add 2 free agent starters who cost $120M next year. Fair enough. 2 mediocre starters to replace Quintana? Yeah, that's a recipe for more losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 03:50 PM) 2 mediocre starters to replace Quintana? Yeah, that's a recipe for more losses. Keep Quintana and add the mediocre starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Rebuilding even further makes no sense due to who was acquired last year/offseason. Hahn's moves were not with some 5 year rebuilding plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ May 31, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) Rebuilding even further makes no sense due to who was acquired last year/offseason. Hahn's moves were not with some 5 year rebuilding plan That means they have to buy the pitching - and a lot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ May 31, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) Rebuilding even further makes no sense due to who was acquired last year/offseason. Hahn's moves were not with some 5 year rebuilding plan No, but it wasn't a one year flip and contend offseason either. All you do is microcriticize every action and reaction this season. Competing for a wild card is gravy this season, but you are fooling yourself if you think they are pushing for a World Series right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 31, 2014 -> 10:57 PM) No, but it wasn't a one year flip and contend offseason either. All you do is microcriticize every action and reaction this season. Competing for a wild card is gravy this season, but you are fooling yourself if you think they are pushing for a World Series right now They got guys that are MLB ready or close to it. By no means do I think they believed they could compete this year. However, unlike Astros and Cubs rebuild, it seems like the Sox had a much quicker plan in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ May 31, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) They got guys that are MLB ready or close to it. By no means do I think they believed they could compete this year. However, unlike Astros and Cubs rebuild, it seems like the Sox had a much quicker plan in mind. And they are 1 game under .500 and have been missing major pieces all season. The quicker plan is already happening, why don't you let it unfold before declaring everyone horrible and every move wrong. You have seen progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 If this team can manage 80 wins, I think there's a good chance they WILL spend on some pitching. But the great thing about the contract for Quintana is that he's around for more than just next year -- even if it takes us another year to get to where we can start spending, you have Quintana as a building block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 31, 2014 -> 05:38 PM) If this team can manage 80 wins, I think there's a good chance they WILL spend on some pitching. But the great thing about the contract for Quintana is that he's around for more than just next year -- even if it takes us another year to get to where we can start spending, you have Quintana as a building block I don't think there should be a magic wins number they have to get to before they spend money on pitching. The current state of the minor leagues, coupled with the position core basically being in place, dictates that they need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Because it's not like we're not a week or so away from adding another 2-3 starting pitchers into the mix or anything for our contention window. Maybe they'll go after another collegiate closer in rounds 3-5, like a Reed, along with two starters (one collegiate, one high schooler). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Another reason why they should build the rotation via free agency next year around Sale and Q. is because if it turns out they aren't good enough in the 2015-2017 window start the next rebuild with Sale and Quintana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 05:51 PM) I don't think there should be a magic wins number they have to get to before they spend money on pitching. The current state of the minor leagues, coupled with the position core basically being in place, dictates that they need to. In hindsight MAYBE this is true. Before this season who would have thought Gillaspie/Lexi/Beckham/Dunn/Viciedo/Flowers were all gonna play like they have been so far? Who knew Abreu was gonna take off right away? Eaton, while a highly thought of prospect, still never showed it at the big league level. Couple that with the whole giving up a fairly high draft pick and it made sense to go after a guy like Paulino who, even though he sucked, doesnt restrict you financially. Now next year, if they offense continues to play well, yes, they should absolutely consider spending big money on a SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ May 31, 2014 -> 06:59 PM) In hindsight MAYBE this is true. Before this season who would have thought Gillaspie/Lexi/Beckham/Dunn/Viciedo/Flowers were all gonna play like they have been so far? Who knew Abreu was gonna take off right away? Eaton, while a highly thought of prospect, still never showed it at the big league level. Couple that with the whole giving up a fairly high draft pick and it made sense to go after a guy like Paulino who, even though he sucked, doesnt restrict you financially. Now next year, if they offense continues to play well, yes, they should absolutely consider spending big money on a SP. My feeling on this is if the position core is not here already they have a lot bigger problems than a $50M contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 31, 2014 -> 10:19 PM) And they are 1 game under .500 and have been missing major pieces all season. The quicker plan is already happening, why don't you let it unfold before declaring everyone horrible and every move wrong. You have seen progress So far, I'm very satisfied with the progress of the rebuild. This season has gone well, as there have been some big hits on the rebuilding front (Abreu) and some significant misses as well (E. Johnson, M. Davidson so far). I do like the fact that it seems Abreu is already the leader of the team, as well as Sale. It stings Avi wasn't able to show if he would be an impact player, but I love what Gillaspie has shown so far this year. I do agree with marty though that they're going to have to be active in the FA market to acquire some pitching, as they don't have a lot of trade chips left (unless they use Alexei). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 08:13 PM) My feeling on this is if the position core is not here already they have a lot bigger problems than a $50M contract. Which is why you advocated trading that core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2014 -> 07:19 PM) Which is why you advocated trading that core. Exactly. Either the position core is mostly in place or it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 31, 2014 -> 08:24 PM) Exactly. Either the position core is mostly in place or it is not. And your opinion is that it isn't so they should trade off that core and then spend several large FA contracts to replace that core next year, thus guaranteeing that they have neither flexibility nor the resources to add in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 We need more major league calibre starting pitchers, not less. In the organization, we have Sale, Q, and a steaming pile of poo. What we need to see are more threads advocating giving away that POS Danks. Eat salary if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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