witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 CHRIS SALE MIGHT BE THE BEST f***ING PITCHER IN THE ENTIRE MAJORS LEAGUES AND YOU DON'T EVEN f***ING THINK HE'S AN ACE THAT'S THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF f***ING s*** I'VE EVER HEARD /Torgue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:21 AM) CHRIS SALE MIGHT BE THE BEST f***ING PITCHER IN THE ENTIRE MAJORS LEAGUES AND YOU DON'T EVEN f***ING THINK HE'S AN ACE THAT'S THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF f***ING s*** I'VE EVER HEARD /Torgue Also Quintana is a prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'd like to think Aces make all of their starts most seasons. Of course Sale is one of the best pitchers in baseball, but if this year is the beginning of him missing a month here or a half season there, there would need to be a new word to describe him. He's kind of an Ace right now, but he's bordering on "freak of nature that you pray stays healthy enough to lead a staff to the playoffs, and in the playoffs". But it's just a word. Pitch every 5th day, put up the innings and quality starts, and the numbers will be there that say he's one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:42 AM) I'd like to think Aces make all of their starts most seasons. Of course Sale is one of the best pitchers in baseball, but if this year is the beginning of him missing a month here or a half season there, there would need to be a new word to describe him. He's kind of an Ace right now, but he's bordering on "freak of nature that you pray stays healthy enough to lead a staff to the playoffs, and in the playoffs". But it's just a word. Pitch every 5th day, put up the innings and quality starts, and the numbers will be there that say he's one of the best. Most pitchers make 32-33 starts per season. Chris Sale has made 29 (and would have been 30 if not for the idiotic bullpen demotion) and 30 starts. Are you really, really, REALLY seriously dinging him for missing those starts? And are you really dinging him for the Sox being overly cautious in his first full season as starter, a season where they lost 99 games, and a season where their expectations for competition are diminished due to the talent level on hand? Chris Sale is a motherf***ing ace. Edited June 9, 2014 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:46 AM) Most pitchers make 32-33 starts per season. Chris Sale has made 29 (and would have been 30 if not for the idiotic bullpen demotion) and 30 starts. Are you really, really, REALLY seriously dinging him for missing those starts? And are you really dinging him for the Sox being overly cautious in his first full season as starter, a season where they lost 99 games, and a season where their expectations for competition are diminished due to the talent level on hand? Chris Sale is a motherf***ing ace. I said "if this year is the beginning"... So, no, I'm not dinging him for the other seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:20 AM) Chris Sale, 2012-today - 68 G, 67 GS, 458.2 IP, 2.94 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 9.3 K/9, 2.1 BB/9, 0.9 HR/9, 4.5 K/BB, 11.7 fWAR, 15 bWAR greg, just...no but he gave up a grand slam to one of the best hitters in the league on a very good pitch. So, NO MY FRIEND YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS WRONG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) Sale is an ace? ... Not yet, folks. Stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is now my thread to watch today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If there were like 30 aces in baseball wouldn't that kinda, like, defeat the purpose of the term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Sale had the required 1000 IP, here would be his rankings among the all time leaders, WHIP (8th), H/9 (16th), K/9 (4th), and K/BB (5th). If that's not an ace, I don't know what is. But keep on trolling Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Opposing hitters are carrying a .145 average against Chris Sale through eight starts this season. Per the Elias Sports Bureau, that’s the lowest average against an American League pitcher through eight starts since Oakland’s Mike Norris had a .140 in 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Don't worry, greg will start inhaling Sale's balls as soon as the Sox trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) Chris Sale, 2012-today - 68 G, 67 GS, 458.2 IP, 2.94 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 9.3 K/9, 2.1 BB/9, 0.9 HR/9, 4.5 K/BB, 11.7 fWAR, 15 bWAR greg, just...no Maybe I don't understand the term ace, correctly. Is he an All-Star and maybe even the All-Star game starter this year? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Maybe I don't understand the term ace, correctly. Is he an All-Star and maybe even the All-Star game starter this year? Sure. Ace is #1 starter quality. Top pitcher on the team, one of the top guys in the league and in the game today. He is all of those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Do you have the expectation that he will dominate every start? Does he tend to? Can he still shut teams down when he's not on? Does he compare favorably to the top pitchers in the game? Is he a no-brainer to pitch game 1 of a playoff series? Does he consistently take the ball? Is he regularly going deep into games? If you answer yes to all these questions then you have an ace on your hands. The only question with Sale is his durability and I'm not ready to knock him for that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) Do you have the expectation that he will dominate every start? Does he tend to? Can he still shut teams down when he's not on? Does he compare favorably to the top pitchers in the game? Is he a no-brainer to pitch game 1 of a playoff series? Does he consistently take the ball? Is he regularly going deep into games? If you answer yes to all these questions then you have an ace on your hands. The only question with Sale is his durability and I'm not ready to know him for that yet. Post more because I miss you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) Post more because I miss you. Anything for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 02:50 PM) Anything for you. :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 07:20 PM) Maybe I don't understand the term ace, correctly. Is he an All-Star and maybe even the All-Star game starter this year? Sure. So, the top pitcher of one half of the league's talent doesn't scream "ace" to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) Sale is an ace? ... Not yet, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) Do you have the expectation that he will dominate every start? Does he tend to? Can he still shut teams down when he's not on? Does he compare favorably to the top pitchers in the game? Is he a no-brainer to pitch game 1 of a playoff series? Does he consistently take the ball? Is he regularly going deep into games? Has he consistently achieved those criteria for three (five) or more full seasons? If you answer yes to all these questions then you have an ace on your hands. The only question with Sale is his durability and I'm not ready to knock him for that yet. You added durability, so adding a requirement that includes three, five, however many seasons seems fair. Just by adding one criteria and he's no longer an ace. Which is why I find the whole who is an ace debate almost meaningless. You can't even have a debate about whether or not a player is an "ace" until you agree on a definition of an "ace". I really like your list, it is about as good as anyone has offered, yet there are so many vague terms that are up to (mis)interpretation. "tend to" "compare favorably" "shut teams down" "No-brainer to start" (no one on those Atlanta Brave staffs would be an Ace), "consistently", "going deep". All those would need to be parsed. A lot of people here will disagree, but I would add an "ace" (which to me includes that something extra, beyond just great stats) puts his team in position to win. He may give up five runs in a blowout, but only one in a tight game. The guys that rise to the occasion. I'd use the term to describe those pitchers who seem to give the offense an extra boost. The guys the team feels confidence behind. Then I would balance it all, not needing to say yes to each and every criteria. And BTW, FWIW, based on how I would define the term, Sale has pitched like an ace the past 2+ seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Buehrle gave up a 2-run homer to Delmon Young. 3-0, end of 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 That's why I questioned Sale as an ace, because of what Kalapse said about longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2014 -> 10:24 PM) That's why I questioned Sale as an ace, because of what Kalapse said about longevity. Do you feel that Stephen Strasburg is an ace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) That qualifier more applies to someone like Rich Harden who was a dynamic, dominant starter when healthy but pitched what could be considered a full season only once in his career. Not a Sale who's had no significant injuries to date and only 1 DL trip in his young career but MAY, someday, have his arm fall off. Edited June 17, 2014 by Kalapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.