Dick Allen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) I'm all for not screwing around with guys because of super 2 status. If the guy belongs in Chicago, have in play in Chicago. In the short run, he will help your team win. In the long run, he won't ever be able to hold that against you. Just think how you would feel or have felt if an employer played some games not to pay you what you deserve. Edited June 26, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) I'm all for not screwing around with guys because of super 2 status. If the guy belongs in Chicago, have in play in Chicago. In the short run, he will help your team win. In the long run, he won't ever be able to hold that against you. Just think how you would feel or have felt if an employer played some games not to pay you what you deserve. Agree with all of this. If he's ready to learn at the MLB level then let him learn. The "clock" stuff is all bulls***. It's funny also how no one ever seems to acknowledge the MASSIVE ASSUMPTION that whatever unproven prospect people happen to be talking about at the time will make it as a quality MLB player. The only way arb/service time ever matters is if the player is good enough and is also healthy enough to remain in the league that long. These are not foregone conclusions here. The minors/college/etc. to the Majors is a massive jump that tons of "can't miss" types have failed to make in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) Agree with all of this. If he's ready to learn at the MLB level then let him learn. The "clock" stuff is all bulls***. It's funny also how no one ever seems to acknowledge the MASSIVE ASSUMPTION that whatever unproven prospect people happen to be talking about at the time will make it as a quality MLB player. The only way arb/service time ever matters is if the player is good enough and is also healthy enough to remain in the league that long. These are not foregone conclusions here. The minors/college/etc. to the Majors is a massive jump that tons of "can't miss" types have failed to make in the past. Exactly. It was only 3 months ago some were worrying about Matt Davidson's arb clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'd rather have Rodon's six full years be ages 23-28, than 22-27. Have him on the opening day roster when the Sox are more ready to win, which 2016 could be--and better be beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) Exactly. It was only 3 months ago some were worrying about Matt Davidson's arb clock. As a franchise with limited resources, they should be looking at the payroll that closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) As a franchise with limited resources, they should be looking at the payroll that closely. Believe what you want to believe about limited resources. This broke team that always just breaks even, was trying to spend over $100 million more than it spent last winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I just saying that let him earned his place in the rotation and not let it be a given b/c of the contract. I see no reason to rush him this yr wait the offseason, get better, rest the arm and come out in spring training and do well. contract is contract and I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) As a franchise with limited resources, they should be looking at the payroll that closely. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Believe what you want to believe about limited resources. This broke team that always just breaks even, was trying to spend over $100 million more than it spent last winter. It's definitely important to not waste resources, but I think the key is that for guys that are Super Two targets, you're often doing more damage to your franchise by foregoing that production than you're gaining by saving what will likely amount to $3-7m IF the player actually becomes as good as you hope. Basically it's that if a guy is so good you have to try to remove an arbitration raise form him, the dude is gonna get paid anyway and you're going to have to dump him. There are very few situations where you'd keep a guy for one year at $12m but not at $15m, and what you have to do to save that money could cost you a playoff berth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) Believe what you want to believe about limited resources. This broke team that always just breaks even, was trying to spend over $100 million more than it spent last winter. Yeah I've come to side with you on this stuff now. I used to disagree with lines like this, now I know better. I think it's all about how long you've been following this game at a very close level. One of the first stages fans (like myself) go through is falling in love with prospects because you think that since so-and-so did this or that, and the guy you have looks as good or better, the prospect will turn into something amazing. Live and learn, usually they all suck or at least they don't live up to what they are billed as. And even someone who is as much of a "sure thing" as Rodon can fail, and has in the past, and injuries are often a factor. Conversely, "forgotten" or "bust" types like Connor Gillaspie are actually pretty damn good players to make it to MLB in the first place and receive playing time. So often these guys are completely overlooked while the prospects are endlessly fellated, and only later do people realize that Gavin Floyd is a s***load better than that Miller guy the Tigers traded and a whole host of other pitchers who suck balls. Maybe the Erik Johnson and Matt Davidson plummeting this year as well as the rises of players like Gillaspie, Noesi, Petricka and Putnam will provide some needed prospective for those who are currently in this stage. But after that stage IMO there is another stage, where you know more but you still believe the organizational bulls*** as a whole. Stuff like payroll, blah blah blah, they say one thing and do another. It takes awhile before you see enough examples of this stuff as a fan before you ultimately call bulls***, but when you do it is a wonderful and enlightening feeling. At that point you become an Ultimate Champion of baseball fandom, which is a stage most of us here will hit, and I do recognize others like DA have hit this before me. I'm still ahead of some of the other posters here though so that's cool. After all that there may be a 3rd stage, my guess is the Hawk stage, where you have seen so many strange things happen in this game that you just throw your hands up in the air and say "I don't even know anymore, and who gives a f*** anyway" and perhaps that is the stage often misunderstood posters like Marty and greg are in, they've just seen so much s*** that they don't even know anymore which is why other can't always understand them, but it doesn't mean they aren't in highly advanced stages of fandom. End rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) It's definitely important to not waste resources, but I think the key is that for guys that are Super Two targets, you're often doing more damage to your franchise by foregoing that production than you're gaining by saving what will likely amount to $3-7m IF the player actually becomes as good as you hope. Basically it's that if a guy is so good you have to try to remove an arbitration raise form him, the dude is gonna get paid anyway and you're going to have to dump him. There are very few situations where you'd keep a guy for one year at $12m but not at $15m, and what you have to do to save that money could cost you a playoff berth. YES. See, this is why you are one of my favorite posters here, because although we still disagree on some things, you get the big picture. I'm not on the stats side of things, and I'll always be an "eyes" guy first and foremost, but I like it a lot when "stats" people actually get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) YES. See, this is why you are one of my favorite posters here, because although we still disagree on some things, you get the big picture. I'm not on the stats side of things, and I'll always be an "eyes" guy first and foremost, but I like it a lot when "stats" people actually get it. That's because what we seek isn't "stats" or "eyes" -- these are merely mediums. What we seek is THE TRUTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) That's because what we seek isn't "stats" or "eyes" -- these are merely mediums. What we seek is THE TRUTH I will rate your profile 5 stars, and also Dick Allen's profile 5 stars. Edit: I also rated wite's profile 5 stars out of pure sarcasm and St. Roostifer 5 stars because I forgot to do that yesterday. Did you know EMinor that Wite's 4 star rating was higher than either mine or yours, or DA's or Roostifers? That is terrible. I can't believe that. Good god. Edited June 27, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) I will rate your profile 5 stars, and also Dick Allen's profile 5 stars. Edit: I also rated wite's profile 5 stars out of pure sarcasm and St. Roostifer 5 stars because I forgot to do that yesterday. Did you know EMinor that Wite's 4 star rating was higher than either mine or yours, or DA's or Roostifers? That is terrible. I can't believe that. Good god. 3 stars is the badge of one who polarizes, lol. I'm okay with being loved AND hated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) I will rate your profile 5 stars, and also Dick Allen's profile 5 stars. Edit: I also rated wite's profile 5 stars out of pure sarcasm and St. Roostifer 5 stars because I forgot to do that yesterday. Did you know EMinor that Wite's 4 star rating was higher than either mine or yours, or DA's or Roostifers? That is terrible. I can't believe that. Good god. 5 stars right back at ya champ. Hey, where's Marty been? Haven't seen him around for a bit. I'm still waiting for you to post the laid back gorilla pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) I will rate your profile 5 stars, and also Dick Allen's profile 5 stars. Edit: I also rated wite's profile 5 stars out of pure sarcasm and St. Roostifer 5 stars because I forgot to do that yesterday. Did you know EMinor that Wite's 4 star rating was higher than either mine or yours, or DA's or Roostifers? That is terrible. I can't believe that. Good god. 4 is too low for the quality of my posting ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) 5 stars right back at ya champ. Hey, where's Marty been? Haven't seen him around for a bit. I'm still waiting for you to post the laid back gorilla pick. Oh you mean the nude Freddy Garcia pic? Here you go: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:47 PM) 4 is too low for the quality of my posting ability. Ability yes, you have a 4.1 star ability level, but like Alejandro DeAza, you routinely post at a level well below that. I will again rate your profile 5 stars, but please know it is purely out of sarcasm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 12:50 PM) Ability yes, you have a 4.1 star ability level, but like Alejandro DeAza, you routinely post at a level well below that. I will again rate your profile 5 stars, but please know it is purely out of sarcasm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) Oh you mean the nude Freddy Garcia pic? Here you go: Haha, that's it! Classic. I was thinking the gorilla was a good representation of Adam Dunn's approach at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) At the end, this will be the pic that defines the Sox 2014 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) 5 stars for Feeky 0 stars for DeAza in his trade season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) 5 stars for Feeky 0 stars for DeAza in his trade season 0 stars for confused De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 02:09 PM) 0 stars for confused De Aza. No doubt he's confused but the look is more like, constipation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) No doubt he's confused but the look is more like, constipation. His look is more like "whaddya mean he gets to throw over to first? HOw is that fair?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) His look is more like "whaddya mean he gets to throw over to first? HOw is that fair?" So its more of a confused look. I think the look comes from when someone told him he couldn't steal first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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