Shooting at Seattle college campus

[Balta1701]

You've got the stats. You are armed with them. Let me ask you a simple question: Does Chicago have a serious, severe problem with violence in neighborhoods right now?

Yes.

 

Now let me ask you a simple question...what does religion have to do with that?

[greg775]

Yes.

 

Now let me ask you a simple question...what does religion have to do with that?

 

I just stated AGAIN that it is a matter of negative s*** being the norm and cool and being accepted and anything positive like religion merely mocked. The basic tenets of religion - the Golden Rule - are ASSETS to society. Yet any mention of religion is scoffed at, mocked. Any mention of violence? Bring it on. Fine? People want violence and want to mock religion? Go for it.

Edited July 7, 2014 by greg775

[LittleHurt05]

I just stated AGAIN that it is a matter of negative s*** being the norm and cool and being accepted and anything positive like religion merely mocked. The basic tenets of religion - the Golden Rule - are ASSETS to society. Yet any mention of religion is scoffed at, mocked. Any mention of violence? Bring it on.

 

I'd imagine the people of northern Nigeria wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I just stated AGAIN that it is a matter of negative s*** being the norm and cool and being accepted and anything positive like religion merely mocked. The basic tenets of religion - the Golden Rule - are ASSETS to society. Yet any mention of religion is scoffed at, mocked. Any mention of violence? Bring it on.

 

Religion is something that some people don't want forced on them....Violence is just reality.

[greg775]

I'd imagine the people of northern Nigeria wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.

How can anybody dispute the Golden Rule being a bad thing?

[CrimsonWeltall]

How can anybody dispute the Golden Rule being a bad thing?

 

No one is claiming the Golden Rule is a bad thing, but it's neither unique nor original to any religion, so what's your point? We can promote the Golden Rule without promoting religion.

[witesoxfan]

greg, I don't understand your argument

[LittleHurt05]

How can anybody dispute the Golden Rule being a bad thing?

 

I don't even know what the Golden Rule is, I was just disagreeing that religion is somehow the key to stopping violence, when thousands of years of history have shown otherwise.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think his argument is that if the s***ty neighborhoods in Chicago that account for 95% (guesstimate) of the violent crime had some sort of culture or community of good, e.g. a church community, maybe the violence wouldn't be as bad as it is. I somewhat agree with him. The idea being that these neighborhoods are just lawless places with morally bankrupt people. Religion specifically isn't the answer, but some kind of community of people with some morals sure would help.

 

I remember a CPD buddy of mine telling me that in these neighborhoods the kids know nothing of the real world. It's all about the street. They have no morals or ethics. They have nothing to live for. They're all certain they'll be dead before they are 25. And they live that way. He had one kid tell him once that he'd kill all the cops in Chicago if he could get away with it, but he knew he couldn't, so he doesn't try. How f***ed up do you have to be to TELL someone that?

[Brian]

Is Rahm going to speak about it? Ever?

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Not a campaign year.

 

I'm still convinced that every politician, from the mayor to the city council to the county officials and neighboring officials all don't care because the violence is funneled to just a few select areas. If we REALLY wanted to fix this problem, you'd get the state national guard in and start patrolling with shoot to kill orders. This s*** would die out quickly if you made these neighborhoods military zones. But who wants the political fall out from that?

[Balta1701]

I think his argument is that if the s***ty neighborhoods in Chicago that account for 95% (guesstimate) of the violent crime had some sort of culture or community of good, e.g. a church community, maybe the violence wouldn't be as bad as it is. I somewhat agree with him. The idea being that these neighborhoods are just lawless places with morally bankrupt people. Religion specifically isn't the answer, but some kind of community of people with some morals sure would help.

 

I remember a CPD buddy of mine telling me that in these neighborhoods the kids know nothing of the real world. It's all about the street. They have no morals or ethics. They have nothing to live for. They're all certain they'll be dead before they are 25. And they live that way. He had one kid tell him once that he'd kill all the cops in Chicago if he could get away with it, but he knew he couldn't, so he doesn't try. How f***ed up do you have to be to TELL someone that?

I don't think Greg's argument is as sensible as that, at least not based on the words he actually wrote.

 

He doesn't like the fact that not everyone believes in the same god he does and feels that it's too ok to "mock" religion. That's bad and violence is bad. Therefore, if people "mocked" religion less, there'd be less violence.

 

It even gets the "there's too much violence in the media" thrown in.

 

Your point of view is one I'd agree with, there's definitely an element of a lack of community to the violence, but that's only one small part, and it's not occurring because there are too many violent movies being put out.

[Y2HH]

You complain about anything positive being "mocked" and then scoff at a 50% decrease in the murder rate. Most would consider that positive.

 

You complain about our culture "now" being violent and negative and ignore the fact that the violence situation was vastly worse 20 years ago. A basic bit of thought would suggest that either your idea is wrong or that somehow we've become vastly less violent as a people in the last 20 years.

 

I've tried, don't bother.

[greg775]

I think his argument is that if the s***ty neighborhoods in Chicago that account for 95% (guesstimate) of the violent crime had some sort of culture or community of good, e.g. a church community, maybe the violence wouldn't be as bad as it is. I somewhat agree with him. The idea being that these neighborhoods are just lawless places with morally bankrupt people. Religion specifically isn't the answer, but some kind of community of people with some morals sure would help.

 

I remember a CPD buddy of mine telling me that in these neighborhoods the kids know nothing of the real world. It's all about the street. They have no morals or ethics. They have nothing to live for. They're all certain they'll be dead before they are 25. And they live that way. He had one kid tell him once that he'd kill all the cops in Chicago if he could get away with it, but he knew he couldn't, so he doesn't try. How f***ed up do you have to be to TELL someone that?

 

Thank you sir!!

Somebody understands greg besides my momma.

[Jake]

Concealed carry probably saved some lives in Chicago:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...0,5324984.story

 

 

 

Also Greg/others, 60 people shot in the city over the weekend. 7 killed. Where's Nancy Grace and the faux outrage?

 

edit: Let's update that. 14 killed, 82 shot.

 

http://gawker.com/horror-in-chicago-as-82-...h-of-1601170588

 

Looks like we should think about the Swiss law in which you can only legally own a gun as a "perk" of military/reserve service. They keep their service tools in their home, which would jibe much more with the original meaning of the second amendment, empowering the populace to be active members of a militia.

 

I think his argument is that if the s***ty neighborhoods in Chicago that account for 95% (guesstimate) of the violent crime had some sort of culture or community of good, e.g. a church community, maybe the violence wouldn't be as bad as it is. I somewhat agree with him. The idea being that these neighborhoods are just lawless places with morally bankrupt people. Religion specifically isn't the answer, but some kind of community of people with some morals sure would help.

 

I remember a CPD buddy of mine telling me that in these neighborhoods the kids know nothing of the real world. It's all about the street. They have no morals or ethics. They have nothing to live for. They're all certain they'll be dead before they are 25. And they live that way. He had one kid tell him once that he'd kill all the cops in Chicago if he could get away with it, but he knew he couldn't, so he doesn't try. How f***ed up do you have to be to TELL someone that?

 

Let's not forget about the wonderful ability of religion, of all kinds (no "my religion doesn't do that" BS), to encourage violence as well. It can especially encourage the kind of disdain for one's neighbor that we see leading to the problems that plague Chicago - ie, who gives a s*** when it happens in neighborhoods that aren't "normal?"

 

Some legitimate institutions and economic opportunities would help these neighborhoods. Not getting a bunch of hopeless people to go to church and remain hopeless. You can't hope away crushing poverty, no matter how constructive your social clubs are

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Looks like we should think about the Swiss law in which you can only legally own a gun as a "perk" of military/reserve service. They keep their service tools in their home, which would jibe much more with the original meaning of the second amendment, empowering the populace to be active members of a militia.

 

 

 

Let's not forget about the wonderful ability of religion, of all kinds (no "my religion doesn't do that" BS), to encourage violence as well. It can especially encourage the kind of disdain for one's neighbor that we see leading to the problems that plague Chicago - ie, who gives a s*** when it happens in neighborhoods that aren't "normal?"

 

Some legitimate institutions and economic opportunities would help these neighborhoods. Not getting a bunch of hopeless people to go to church and remain hopeless. You can't hope away crushing poverty, no matter how constructive your social clubs are

 

Christianity in America is predominantly nonviolent. Yes, you can point to some wackos, but 99.9% are not. Religion promoting violence is an irrelevant argument here.

 

And the benefit is not so much the belief in Christ, but a sense of group and community. You know your neighbors. You care about your neighbors. You grow up with the kids in the neighborhood. All positive things that are missing from the gang infested ghettos.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[EvilMonkey]

Christianity in America is predominantly nonviolent. Yes, you can point to some wackos, but 99.9% are not. Religion promoting violence is a irrelevant argument here.

 

And the benefit is not so much the belief in Christ, but a sense of group and community. You know your neighbors. You care about your neighbors. You grow up with the kids in the neighborhood. All positive things that are missing from the gang infested ghettos.

They can just never forget the Crusades, as if it were yesterday...

[greg775]

Christianity in America is predominantly nonviolent. Yes, you can point to some wackos, but 99.9% are not. Religion promoting violence is an irrelevant argument here.

 

And the benefit is not so much the belief in Christ, but a sense of group and community. You know your neighbors. You care about your neighbors. You grow up with the kids in the neighborhood. All positive things that are missing from the gang infested ghettos.

 

You continue to state what I believe beautifully. Maybe I'm a bad writer, but you have captured the essence of what I believe.

 

[caulfield12]

Greg, how can you explain why there's statistically very very few murders/homicides here in China?

 

If 90%+ of people don't believe in God, there must be something else at play.

 

Most don't even follow the "Golden Rule" simply because of the fact that there's so much competition for space/jobs/resources/time waiting in lines or getting onto subways before others can even try to get off...

 

So, if you want less violence:

 

1) Fewer guns (guns are illegal in China except for police or military)

 

2) More government authority/control (as someone pointed out, nobody has the political will to occupy inner cities with the National Guard to quell the violence, and, as Balta pointed out, there's not enough outrage that blocs of voters are organizing in a way to take their frustration out on politicians in any concerted way)

 

3) There's no culture of personal shame/responsibility. Once again, in China, the shame you bring on your family for doing something terrible like murdering another person...heck, it's nearly impossible for a single woman to have a child without being married here because of the strong social stigma against it. In most inner cities, there's the feeling there is nothing to lose joining a gang/dealing drugs, etc., because who would want to work at McDonald's or Taco Bell and be stuck with a minimum wage job when you can't even support yourself, let alone a family, on that pay?

Edited July 8, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Greg, how can you explain why there's statistically very very few murders/homicides here in China?

 

If 90%+ of people don't believe in God, there must be something else at play.

 

Most don't even follow the "Golden Rule" simply because of the fact that there's so much competition for space/jobs/resources/time waiting in lines or getting onto subways before others can even try to get off...

 

So, if you want less violence:

 

1) Fewer guns (guns are illegal in China except for police or military)

 

2) More government authority/control (as someone pointed out, nobody has the political will to occupy inner cities with the National Guard to quell the violence, and, as Balta pointed out, there's not enough outrage that blocs of voters are organizing in a way to take their frustration out on politicians in any concerted way)

 

3) There's no culture of personal shame/responsibility. Once again, in China, the shame you bring on your family for doing something terrible like murdering another person...heck, it's nearly impossible for a single woman to have a child without being married here because of the strong social stigma against it. In most inner cities, there's the feeling there is nothing to lose joining a gang/dealing drugs, etc., because who would want to work at McDonald's or Taco Bell and be stuck with a minimum wage job when you can't even support yourself, let alone a family, on that pay?

No history of 80 years of leaded gasoline.

[caulfield12]

No history of 80 years of leaded gasoline.

 

 

There is, on the other hand, a MUCH higher suicide rate here, and in fellow Asian countries like Japan, South Korea and even Singapore.

[Jenksismyhero]

Greg, how can you explain why there's statistically very very few murders/homicides here in China?

 

If 90%+ of people don't believe in God, there must be something else at play.

 

Most don't even follow the "Golden Rule" simply because of the fact that there's so much competition for space/jobs/resources/time waiting in lines or getting onto subways before others can even try to get off...

 

So, if you want less violence:

 

1) Fewer guns (guns are illegal in China except for police or military)

 

2) More government authority/control (as someone pointed out, nobody has the political will to occupy inner cities with the National Guard to quell the violence, and, as Balta pointed out, there's not enough outrage that blocs of voters are organizing in a way to take their frustration out on politicians in any concerted way)

 

3) There's no culture of personal shame/responsibility. Once again, in China, the shame you bring on your family for doing something terrible like murdering another person...heck, it's nearly impossible for a single woman to have a child without being married here because of the strong social stigma against it. In most inner cities, there's the feeling there is nothing to lose joining a gang/dealing drugs, etc., because who would want to work at McDonald's or Taco Bell and be stuck with a minimum wage job when you can't even support yourself, let alone a family, on that pay?

 

We've already established that over the last couple decades crime has dropped significantly. Meanwhile, the number of guns in this country has gun up in the same amount of time. Less guns =/= less violence.

 

3 is one I completely agree with - entitlement mentality. It's not my fault i'm this way, it's theirs. The government will provide for me. It's my right to have a kid even if I can't pay for it!

[Balta1701]

We've already established that over the last couple decades crime has dropped significantly. Meanwhile, the number of guns in this country has gun up in the same amount of time. Less guns =/= less violence.

However, the number of people owning guns has dropped dramatically as well. Fewer people are owning guns but more people are stockpiling them.

[caulfield12]

However, the number of people owning guns has dropped dramatically as well. Fewer people are owning guns but more people are stockpiling them.

 

 

I blame it on the Sons of Anarchy Motorcycle Club.

[EvilMonkey]

I blame it on the Sons of Anarchy Motorcycle Club.

HEY! They are OUT of the gun business. Now it is p*ssy and porn, two things that NEVER hurt anyone.