One of the worst Sox losses I've ever witnessed

[Kyyle23]

I don't think anyone thought it was a bad pitch. It's wasn't it was good. Trout is just great.

 

Yea i am with Eminor3rd. If it wasnt a bad pitch, and a great player beat a great player, then RV isnt in the wrong

[peppers312]

i've had a few days to mull this over and there's NO reason Sale should have been in there to face Trout. NOPE.

 

HORRIBLE coaching by Robin AND Coop to let him stay in there that long. now, i'm sure Sale wanted to face Trout after Coop talked to him, but the fact is this kid is coming off the flexor injury that landed him on the DL, he was already at 110-115 pitches, there's absolutely NO reason he should have been in there. let the bullpen hold that lead and get out of the inning.

 

poor decision that i believe cost the White Sox 2 games, including Sunday's loss because they look deflated that game because of Saturday night's game.

 

 

[ILMOU]

I'm no fan of Robin's managing, but criticism in this case is just dense, imo. Every other hit in that inning, including vs. Petricka, was an average-hardness GB hit with Twin-like precision. Trout's a lock future HOF. S*** happens.

 

Just hope this type of thing never happens in a game of greater import - playoffs, pennant race, etc.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm no fan of Robin's managing, but criticism in this case is just dense, imo. Every other hit in that inning, including vs. Petricka, was an average-hardness GB hit with Twin-like precision. Trout's a lock future HOF. S*** happens.

 

Just hope this type of thing never happens in a game of greater import - playoffs, pennant race, etc.

 

Trout is really good, what's really amazing is that Willie Mays basically had 12 seasons in a row at a Mike Trout level. In other words, if Trout has 10 more years of "Mike Trout production" he'll be in the conversation with Willie Mays as great outfielder of all time.

 

Willie Mays is like the ultimate example of why WAR works.

[southsider2k5]

Here you go: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-watch-...ething-amazing/

 

That is great stuff. Really well researched.

[ILMOU]

 

And if Kendrick hadn't been given 5 strikes in his AB, that would have helped too.

[iamshack]

But Ventura should be fired, right?

 

At least that's what the thread is about.

For the 5th or so time, the problem wasn't Chris giving up the homer to Trout.

 

The problem is the other run that scored and the 3 runnners that were on base when Trout came up to bat, SO THAT TROUT'S HOME RUN TIED THE GAME.

 

Additionally, even allowing Chris to face Trout coming off a recent injury in which you absolutely know he is dying to win that matchup. It was an unnecessary risk for injury to the organization's most valuable player.

 

You are really bright. How are you missing this?

Edited June 10, 2014 by iamshack

[LDF]

Yea i am with Eminor3rd. If it wasnt a bad pitch, and a great player beat a great player, then RV isnt in the wrong

 

in another time, a person need to take the tangibles into account, 7 strong innings pitch, got out

of a jam in the 7th inning, pitch count, the momentum building, or the runners on base, those need

to be taken into account and are.

 

rv, may have learned an important lesson, from this game, but nevertheless, it was a bad call.

[Kyyle23]

in another time, a person need to take the tangibles into account, 7 strong innings pitch, got out

of a jam in the 7th inning, pitch count, the momentum building, or the runners on base, those need

to be taken into account and are.

 

rv, may have learned an important lesson, from this game, but nevertheless, it was a bad call.

 

And I disagree

[LDF]

And I disagree

 

 

and that is the beauty of this kind of forum..... people agrees and disagrees.

 

thanks

[Eminor3rd]

For the 5th or so time, the problem wasn't Chris giving up the homer to Trout.

 

The problem is the other run that scored and the 3 runnners that were on base when Trout came up to bat, SO THAT TROUT'S HOME RUN TIED THE GAME.

 

Additionally, even allowing Chris to face Trout coming off a recent injury in which you absolutely know he is dying to win that matchup. It was an unnecessary risk for injury to the organization's most valuable player.

 

You are really bright. How are you missing this?

 

But what if he grounded out on that pitch? The fact is Sale was able to execute a great pitch exactly how he wanted, so was not Ventura right that Sale was still able to get Trout out?

 

I think if normal things happen at that point, we look and say "Man, that Chris Sale is a bulldog. Kudos to Robin for trusting his ace to pitch over that mess. What a great pitch he threw there to get out the best player in the league."

 

I guess if someone could show that Sale's mechanics were suffering, that would be good evidence that he was gassed. And if he's in there while gassed, that's a huge mistake. But the pitch count alone was reasonable, and that he loaded the bases, by itself, isn't indicative of anything more than a rough patch the third time through the order. Can we look up to see if his arm slot had changed somehow? I feel like I've seen that stuff somewhere but I don't know where it is.

[LDF]

But what if he grounded out on that pitch? The fact is Sale was able to execute a great pitch exactly how he

wanted, so was not Ventura right that Sale was still able to get Trout out?

 

I think if normal things happen at that point, we look and say "Man, that Chris Sale is a bulldog. Kudos to Robin

for trusting his ace to pitch over that mess. What a great pitch he threw there to get out the best player in the league."

 

I guess if someone could show that Sale's mechanics were suffering, that would be good evidence that he was

gassed. And if he's in there while gassed, that's a huge mistake. But the pitch count alone was reasonable, and

that he loaded the bases, by itself, isn't indicative of anything more than a rough patch the third time through the

order. Can we look up to see if his arm slot had changed somehow? I feel like I've seen that stuff somewhere but I

don't know where it is.

 

I would be happy to have chris pitch to trout on another day and let say early.... chris as you said is out ACE.

 

however use different situations, when it is impossible to imagine, you can't b/c it didn't happen that way and

doing one best to justify it. in the past, managers, any managers and we seen it in many other games, would

take out their pitcher in the same situation. again for me to use examples will not support nor disprove

what I am stating.

[iamshack]

But what if he grounded out on that pitch? The fact is Sale was able to execute a great pitch exactly how he wanted, so was not Ventura right that Sale was still able to get Trout out?

 

I think if normal things happen at that point, we look and say "Man, that Chris Sale is a bulldog. Kudos to Robin for trusting his ace to pitch over that mess. What a great pitch he threw there to get out the best player in the league."

 

I guess if someone could show that Sale's mechanics were suffering, that would be good evidence that he was gassed. And if he's in there while gassed, that's a huge mistake. But the pitch count alone was reasonable, and that he loaded the bases, by itself, isn't indicative of anything more than a rough patch the third time through the order. Can we look up to see if his arm slot had changed somehow? I feel like I've seen that stuff somewhere but I don't know where it is.

Well there were 0 outs, first of all. He gave up two hits to the last three batters in the 7th. Then he comes in and gives up two hits to the first two batters in the 8th (and one run). Gets the third batter to hit a ground ball in the hole at short. Alexei can't find the ears on it; it wasn't going to be a double play like many here have said but he should have at the very least got the force at second. The next hitter gets another hit. That is now five hits in seven batters, and the sixth batter got on via an error (although I think they ruled it a hit).

 

I generally agree, you don't take a pitcher out because of seeing-eye singles or bad luck; those hits are indeed more luck and not a result of his effectiveness. However, given that he's around 100 pitches, and opposing hitters are making contact and finding holes, I think it's fair to assume he was tiring, was losing concentration, or hitters were picking up his release point better.

 

You're looking at one pitch he made to Trout and making your decision for the entire sequence off the location and effectiveness of that one pitch.

 

I don't think many people here have claimed Trout didn't hit a great offering.

 

The point is that Sale and Ventura allowed Trout and the Angels to be in a position where the best hitter in the League hitting a home run tied up what was a 5-0 game in the 8th inning.

 

We all know what Trout is capable of; this is nothing new.

[Eminor3rd]

Well there were 0 outs, first of all. He gave up two hits to the last three batters in the 7th. Then he comes in and gives up two hits to the first two batters in the 8th (and one run). Gets the third batter to hit a ground ball in the hole at short. Alexei can't find the ears on it; it wasn't going to be a double play like many here have said but he should have at the very least got the force at second. The next hitter gets another hit. That is now five hits in seven batters, and the sixth batter got on via an error (although I think they ruled it a hit).

 

I generally agree, you don't take a pitcher out because of seeing-eye singles or bad luck; those hits are indeed more luck and not a result of his effectiveness. However, given that he's around 100 pitches, and opposing hitters are making contact and finding holes, I think it's fair to assume he was tiring, was losing concentration, or hitters were picking up his release point better.

 

You're looking at one pitch he made to Trout and making your decision for the entire sequence off the location and effectiveness of that one pitch.

 

I don't think many people here have claimed Trout didn't hit a great offering.

 

The point is that Sale and Ventura allowed Trout and the Angels to be in a position where the best hitter in the League hitting a home run tied up what was a 5-0 game in the 8th inning.

 

We all know what Trout is capable of; this is nothing new.

 

Yeah I didn't see the game, so I really shouldn't have a strong opinion. It just so nearly worked out for the best there at the end, seems like.

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Ausmus copying Ventura tonight. It didn't work out well for him either.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood