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One of the worst Sox losses I've ever witnessed


Buehrle>Wood

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There is no reliever I would have wanted to pitch to Trout there. I'll roll the dice with Sale at a non-insane pitch count rather than any of our relievers coming in to face the best player in baseball with the bases juiced and nobody out.

 

Per usual, when a pitcher doesn't do his job, the manager looks bad.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 09:11 AM)
I don't know who is next, please list 50 more ex players

 

 

Have you seen a different strategy for identifying future coaches in the Sox organization...besides former players?

 

Hahn's a smart guy. Sooner or later, he's going to have to convince JR to try something more innovative, loyalty be damned.

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Ever think part of the reason Sale is honest about soreness and such is because he trusts Ventura? He trusts him because he'll let him do things like pitch the 8th and face Trout. Yes, it was a bad loss, but it's far better than having Sale losing that trust in Ventura.

 

As far as the team goes there's no way they should be where they are given the talent Ventura was handed. He has done a remarkable job.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 08:39 AM)
I was going to say that too. You won't get any though. It's like the strange "defense" of Greg Walker. No one ever actually defended him or thought he was good, just people like to argue and talk in circles. Same with RV.

 

The old "disprove a negative" is the lowest rung of internet cred.

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 11:26 AM)
Ever think part of the reason Sale is honest about soreness and such is because he trusts Ventura? He trusts him because he'll let him do things like pitch the 8th and face Trout. Yes, it was a bad loss, but it's far better than having Sale losing that trust in Ventura.

 

As far as the team goes there's no way they should be where they are given the talent Ventura was handed. He has done a remarkable job.

Wasn't Sale criticized in 2012 for being dishonest about how his arm felt and trying to pitch through it?

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 10:23 AM)
Have you seen a different strategy for identifying future coaches in the Sox organization...besides former players?

 

Hahn's a smart guy. Sooner or later, he's going to have to convince JR to try something more innovative, loyalty be damned.

 

I don't know the strategy, I just want to know the top 50 candidates that have worn sox uniforms in the past 30 years, and I want to also know at least 24 ex sox minor leaguers as well

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 10:26 AM)
Ever think part of the reason Sale is honest about soreness and such is because he trusts Ventura? He trusts him because he'll let him do things like pitch the 8th and face Trout. Yes, it was a bad loss, but it's far better than having Sale losing that trust in Ventura.

 

As far as the team goes there's no way they should be where they are given the talent Ventura was handed. He has done a remarkable job.

Yeah it's hard to disagree with this. I don't like Ventura's game management but you have to admit, given the talent level, given all the injuries, given the need to hit the minor leagues and the waiver wire very early and often, at bare minimum you have to say that the players this year have responded and the players will shown they will play for Robin and the rest of the coaching staff.

 

About the trust thing too, I was thinking earlier about the "what does Robin do?" question, and maybe it's just more of a feeling/timing thing. Like, now is the time we say this, or drill that, etc. knowing the right way to balance out a clubhouse ego while providing instruction. I.E. here is how we go about this demotion or this trade or call-up, or this benching etc. without alienating the vets ala Bobby Valentine and while still maintaining a corrective/instructional type of approach that is necessary to bring the young guys along.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 10:23 AM)
I didn't have a problem with Sale starting the 8th, but he's not superman. After one in, two on, get a fresh arm in there--especially after having a stressful 7th.

Why are people ignoring the fresh arm gave up the go ahead run.

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I watched that game on MLBN last night. The bottom of the eighth inning was a nightmare. You can easily second guess any managerial decision that leads to such an horrendous outcome but it is really one with no easy answer. Sale was out there for the 8th. No problem, but when he gave up a couple hits I think a fresh arm from the pen would make sense. By the time the bases were loaded and Trout up it was like OK it is our best against their best. But, my feeling is at that point Sale was not at his best. He had thrown like 100 pitches and tiring while Trout was strong. It was not a good decision to leave him in the game, but it is what it is and we lost and it's over. Sunday is a new game and it would be great to win one before heading to Chicago

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Bottom line is the Sox best defensive player committed an error (with a five run lead) and their best pitcher couldn't pitch over it.

 

As for the decision to leave Sale in, he already gave up three hits and a run in that inning and had just given up two hits in the previous inning. That at least makes it legitimate for fans to question whether or not it was the right decision to leave him in.

Edited by South Side Fireworks Man
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QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 10:06 AM)
My problem with Ventura is that I never feel he's in charge of anything.

Part of that may be because he was never in charge of anything before the Sox named him manager of their big league club with absolutely no previous coaching experience at any level and no expressed desire to ever be a coach or a manager.

 

He was a good third baseman though.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 11:14 AM)
Why are people ignoring the fresh arm gave up the go ahead run.

 

That was when the game was tied with nobody on. You can spin it any way you want. Once Sale was getting in deep crap, it was time to go. If Petricka came in with two on in a 5-1 game, it could have gone much better for the Sox. We'll never know though.

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So my night went like this...

 

Watched the game on MLB.tv. Fast forwarded through the Sox ABs to watch Sale only. Watched wanting to see a shut out. When it got to the seventh inning is was getting clear Sale was about done. He fell behind 2-0 2-1 each hitter in the seventh and narrowly escaped damage. When Sale came out for the eighth inning, I was yelling at the TV. WTF Robin you idiot?!?!?!?!

 

After he gave up the first run in the eighth inning, I said "oh well, no shut out" and paused the game so I could play Call of Duty. I raged in CoD for an hour or so and picked up the game. Then real rage came.

 

What an amateur move. Seriously amateur. Ace or not, he was done. He is coming back from a DL stint. Why push him?? Stupid. Give the ball to the rested bullpen. Halvies start between Noesi/Carroll and a day off before. The bullpen can't give you 6 outs against a struggling team?? He should have been pulled after seven. Stupid.

 

Even today some 12 hours after the game is/was over, I am still pissed off about the stupidity of leaving him out there.

 

.....

 

On the flipside, as an "Ace" he should have been able to pitch out of the jam and not implode, either.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 12:25 PM)
That was when the game was tied with nobody on. You can spin it any way you want. Once Sale was getting in deep crap, it was time to go. If Petricka came in with two on in a 5-1 game, it could have gone much better for the Sox. We'll never know though.

 

What if Sale wanted to stay in though? Sale has done everything the Sox have asked him to do when they agreed to leave him in the rotation in terms of being honest about his physical condition. He's earned the right in my view to have a big say as to when he should be left in the game.

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 8, 2014 -> 02:28 PM)
At what?

Well he personally installed the hindsight machine on the fundamentals deck. All ya gotta do is walk up to the machine, tell it you're butthurt from grown men losing a game, and then it spits out a more desirable outcome. The bigger the ego the harder it works.

 

But don't ever go up there after a good decision because it'll race you home and crawl into bed with your wife.

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Someone put RV out of his misery, please.

 

The problem with hiring a former-player/fan-favorite is it becomes hard to fire them when the vast majority of the fan base will ignore how terrible of a manager he is and rely solely on 20 year old memories when judging his "performance" to the White Sox.

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