Rodon pick big for the Sox?

[The Ultimate Champion]

It's possible it will be that high but I don't think it will be quite there.

 

He would need to be called up before Sept 1. to get the arb clock moving. This would be what may entice Boras to sign at a lower number.

I'm not sure about that. You sure? MLB time goes by days on the active roster, I'm not sure there are any freebies. I think the rule there is playoff eligibility, i.e. you can't play in the playoffs unless you are on the roster by Aug 31.

[southsider2k5]

No doubt, but I think we're more worried about Rodon's demands than we should be. Offer him the Sale fast track, remind him that he could wind up with a team that's in an extended rebuild or a small market that will play arb-clock games, delaying his richness by two full years OR MORE, on top of the obvious injury risks. Then shut up, sit back, and dare Boras to give him the dumbest advice any agent ever gave.

 

We should get him at slot or very slightly above, if that's what it takes for them to feel like they "won" the negotiation.

 

Here is the deal. Right now the only top 10 signing we know dollars for is Adams, who signed for slot. That removes $1,282,700 away from money we can spend. That leaves us $8,227,700 for all other top 10 picks AND for any picks outside of the top 10 going over $100k. We also know we signed 10th rounder Jarvis, as a HS pick, but do not know what the dollars are. We can safely assume that at very least it is for slot. It is probably for more, but lets just assume it isn't at this time. That takes away another $141,300, leaving the team with $8,086,400.

 

They have two places they can make up cash for sure. That is with Lechich and Ziznewski as both of their eligibility is gone. Their slots are $272,100 and $162,100 respectively. If we low balled them for $10k each, that frees up an extra $414,200.

 

The rest of the draft is made up of college juniors, who could go back to school. There probably isn't a lot of room to get them underslot.

 

If we take the $414,200 saved up, and apply it to just Rodon, that means we could offer him $6,135,700 without going over the draft allotment. If we went into fining territory, without going into loss of draft pick territory we could offer him (a total extra $ of $475,484) is $6,611,184, under that scenario. Anything bigger means that we would have to come in underslot to other players.

 

These scenarios also mean that no De Oca, or at very most, he signed for $100,000. If you want to offer him a bigger deal, it would have to come out of an offer to Rodon being smaller.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The offer of a fast track should really trump a few hundred grand or even a few million, imo. The delays anywhere else could be significant, on top of the extra year. I can't envision a universe where these added risks outweigh the benefits we can offer. He has no (intelligent) leverage vs. this situation, imo - don't cave needlessly.

Yeah MLB service time = closer to arb, closer to pension, use of an option year, etc. There's so much value there. MLB experience is a huge thing, and getting to break in as a reliever rather than "develop" against minor leaguers where you are accruing zero benefits... just huge. What if he gets hurt? If he's on the MLB roster & he goes down he uses an option year and is closer to gaining player rights (right to decline assignments, FA, etc.) but a major injury while not on the 40 and the team can keep your control for several year (3 season IIRC) without having to even add you to the roster.

 

Huge benefits in the fast track. Borass may be an asshole but he's certainly aware of this stuff, that's why for years his "fall" guys like Maybin and Miller who netted Miggy got MLB contracts out of the draft.

[LDF]

Here is the deal. Right now the only top 10 singing we know dollars for is Adams, who signed for slot. That removes $1,282,700 away from money we can spend. That leaves us $8,227,700 for all other top 10 picks AND for any picks outside of the top 10 going over $100k. We also know we signed 10th rounder Jarvis, as a HS pick, but do not know what the dollars are. We can safely assume that at very least it is for slot. It is probably for more, but lets just assume it isn't at this time. That takes away another $141,300, leaving the team with $8,086,400.

 

They have two places they can make up cash for sure. That is with Lechich and Ziznewski as both of their eligibility is gone. Their slots are $272,100 and $162,100 respectively. If we low balled them for $10k each, that frees up an extra $414,200.

 

The rest of the draft is made up of college juniors, who could go back to school. There probably isn't a lot of room to get them underslot.

 

If we take the $414,200 saved up, and apply it to just Rodon, that means we could offer him $6,135,700 without going over the draft allotment. If we went into fining territory, without going into loss of draft pick territory we could offer him (a total extra $ of $475,484) is $6,611,184, under that scenario. Anything bigger means that we would have to come in underslot to other players.

 

These scenarios also mean that no De Oca, or at very most, he signed for $100,000. If you want to offer him a bigger deal, it would have to come out of an offer to Rodon being smaller.

 

 

GREAT REPLY!!!

 

 

and do you think rodon agent will allow this to happen?

 

[ILMOU]

Here is the deal. Right now the only top 10 singing we know dollars for is Adams, who signed for slot. That removes $1,282,700 away from money we can spend. That leaves us $8,227,700 for all other top 10 picks AND for any picks outside of the top 10 going over $100k. We also know we signed 10th rounder Jarvis, as a HS pick, but do not know what the dollars are. We can safely assume that at very least it is for slot. It is probably for more, but lets just assume it isn't at this time. That takes away another $141,300, leaving the team with $8,086,400.

 

They have two places they can make up cash for sure. That is with Lechich and Ziznewski as both of their eligibility is gone. Their slots are $272,100 and $162,100 respectively. If we low balled them for $10k each, that frees up an extra $414,200.

 

The rest of the draft is made up of college juniors, who could go back to school. There probably isn't a lot of room to get them underslot.

 

If we take the $414,200 saved up, and apply it to just Rodon, that means we could offer him $6,135,700 without going over the draft allotment. If we went into fining territory, without going into loss of draft pick territory we could offer him (a total extra $ of $475,484) is $6,611,184, under that scenario. Anything bigger means that we would have to come in underslot to other players.

 

These scenarios also mean that no De Oca, or at very most, he signed for $100,000. If you want to offer him a bigger deal, it would have to come out of an offer to Rodon being smaller.

 

So, you offer the minimum 90% to some guys you think won't take it and that you're not so crazy about anyway IF you think you can sign BMDO. But the numbers are appreciated. Bryant signed at slot - the northsiders called his bluff, it can be done.

 

There's a reason why we drafted him, and Soxtalk has been pleasantly surprised by recent past signings if memory serves.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The info on the bigger names like Adams, and maybe him exclusively, should become public as far as signing bonuses go. But for the other guys, unless the Sox are forced to acknowledge their signing amounts, there is no reason for them to say anything about amount. No need for Borass to know how much of their pool is remaining after the other players sign, because if he knows what that figure is there is always the chance he'll be a cockwad and demand that exact figure plus the max overage amount and then threaten to go down to the deadline for it just because he knows that with the Sox Rodon will be on the fast track anyway.

 

*Edit: I edited the s*** out of this post because it made no f***ing sense at all. Thank you come again.

Edited June 10, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[southsider2k5]

Also worth noting, if we take my above scenario, while signing Rodon to a slot deal, that would mean we could offer $514,200 to De Oca without going over the teams allotment, and $989,684 without losing a draft pick.

 

If Rodon signs at $6,000,000 exactly, those numbers drop to $235,700 and $611,184 respectively.

[The Ultimate Champion]

So, you offer the minimum 90% to some guys you think won't take it and that you're not so crazy about anyway IF you think you can sign BMDO. But the numbers are appreciated. Bryant signed at slot - the northsiders called his bluff, it can be done.

 

There's a reason why we drafted him, and Soxtalk has been pleasantly surprised by recent past signings if memory serves.

I think the de Oca thing is the Sox placing value on him that is very different from the value he and his agent have in mind. The Sox have a ton of leverage there and someone like him has a whole lot to lose in passing that offer up. If as other have stated, the Sox offer him a full ride later on if things don't work out with baseball, then going ahead and passing on whatever it is they offer you could be the difference between a MLB career, however long or short that may be, and some guy that is toast before he's next eligible for the draft. De Oca is the complete ass opposite of the rest of these "I'll take my chances later" guys like Weisenberg and so on.

[ILMOU]

Also worth noting, if we take my above scenario, while signing Rodon to a slot deal, that would mean we could offer $514,200 to De Oca without going over the teams allotment, and $989,684 without losing a draft pick.

 

If Rodon signs at $6,000,000 exactly, those numbers drop to $235,700 and $611,184 respectively.

 

If ~$1M doesn't get it done for BMDO, it would be bad money anyway, imo. We'll see how it plays out. Don't underestimate the $ juggling skills of Rick Hahn.

[ptatc]

I'm not sure about that. You sure? MLB time goes by days on the active roster, I'm not sure there are any freebies. I think the rule there is playoff eligibility, i.e. you can't play in the playoffs unless you are on the roster by Aug 31.

Someone on here probably knows the rules of service time better but I'm pretty sure Sept call ups do not get service time. Maybe it's they don't use an option against them.

[whitesoxfan99]

Also worth noting, if we take my above scenario, while signing Rodon to a slot deal, that would mean we could offer $514,200 to De Oca without going over the teams allotment, and $989,684 without losing a draft pick.

 

If Rodon signs at $6,000,000 exactly, those numbers drop to $235,700 and $611,184 respectively.

 

It is unlikely but if the Sox can get to that second number (with Rodon at slot) De Oca would be absolutely insane to pass on that. Frankly anything $750,000 and above he would be crazy to pass since he would have to stay healthy and still pitch well enough in college to go in the first two rounds to get a bigger bonus than that.

Edited June 10, 2014 by whitesoxfan99

[harfman77]

I am hoping 6.3M will get deal done with August bullpen call up. I think that is very fair for Bor-ASS and Rodon. I have a feeling Bor-ASS will want to wait until Kolek deal at #2 is done.

 

No way. He either gets above slot money or he gets the fast track. Absolutely no reason to give him both. Considering the way he was used this season, I imagine that his workload will be relatively light the rest of the year. They may pitch him a couple innings out of the bullpen every fifth day to keep him on schedule and limit his innings. There is no reason to start his arb clock and go over slot in the same deal as that will cost the Sox a lot more money down the road if Rodon meets his potential. I think the goal should be to have him ready for opening day 2016 so that the Sox can control his rights through their window of contention in 2016-2019.

 

Its either $5.5M and a callup or $6M+ and you keep him in the minors until he is ready. Getting him to go underslot at $5.5 likely allows you to sign BODM which is probably worth letting Rodon getting to arbitration a year earlier.

[Big Hurtin]

Speaking of Boras, and I know it's a pipe dream, but imagine a 2016 rotation of

 

Sale

Scherzer

Rodon

Quintana

?

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Speaking of Boras, and I know it's a pipe dream, but imagine a 2016 rotation of

 

Sale

Scherzer

Rodon

Quintana

?

 

I want no part of Scherzer and the $30M a year he will command.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I want no part of Scherzer and the $30M a year he will command.

$30MM per and he's never had a complete game

[oneofthemikes]

Speaking of Boras, and I know it's a pipe dream, but imagine a 2016 rotation of

 

Sale

Scherzer

Rodon

Quintana

?

 

I think I'd rather have Cueto

[LDF]

I think the de Oca thing is the Sox placing value on him that is very different from the value he and his

agent have in mind. The Sox have a ton of leverage there and someone like him has a whole lot to lose

in passing that offer up. If as other have stated, the Sox offer him a full ride later on if things don't work

out with baseball, then going ahead and passing on whatever it is they offer you could be the difference

between a MLB career, however long or short that may be, and some guy that is toast before he's next

eligible for the draft. De Oca is the complete ass opposite of the rest of these "I'll take my chances later"

guys like Weisenberg and so on.

 

lets for a moment take a look at this full ride in a $ sense.

1 yr at let say what $40,000 x 4 yrs = additional $160,000.

 

do we include books and room and board ????

how bout adding let say for this discussion, a desire to go for his master degree = $$$$$

again books and room and board????

oh I forgot food and money for entertainment.

 

one can really take advantage of this loop hole..... it really don't count in the cap does it?

[LDF]

It is unlikely but if the Sox can get to that second number (with Rodon at slot) De Oca would be absolutely insane to pass on that. Frankly anything $750,000 and above he would be crazy to pass since he would have to stay healthy and still pitch well enough in college to go in the first two rounds to get a bigger bonus than that.

 

there was another prospect who honored his word to his college team this past draft.

 

I believe in slot money and we will have enuf to sign Bryce..... there are still some questions that

need to be answered in regards to his emerging talent.

[LDF]

No way. He either gets above slot money or he gets the fast track. Absolutely no reason

to give him both. Considering the way he was used this season, I imagine that his workload

will be relatively light the rest of the year. They may pitch him a couple innings out of the bullpen

every fifth day to keep him on schedule and limit his innings. There is no reason to start his arb clock

and go over slot in the same deal as that will cost the Sox a lot more money down the road if Rodon

meets his potential. I think the goal should be to have him ready for opening day 2016 so that the Sox

can control his rights through their window of contention in 2016-2019.

 

Its either $5.5M and a callup or $6M+ and you keep him in the minors until he is ready. Getting him to

go underslot at $5.5 likely allows you to sign BODM which is probably worth letting Rodon getting to

arbitration a year earlier.

 

I love it when we can talk tough if only we, the sox, can back it up.

 

 

if we sign rodon and a big if, I would love to venture into the fa market for missing parts, like a bona fide

SP and another position player if needed. value wise, it will be a great time and move to do it.

[Soxfest]

No way. He either gets above slot money or he gets the fast track. Absolutely no reason to give him both. Considering the way he was used this season, I imagine that his workload will be relatively light the rest of the year. They may pitch him a couple innings out of the bullpen every fifth day to keep him on schedule and limit his innings. There is no reason to start his arb clock and go over slot in the same deal as that will cost the Sox a lot more money down the road if Rodon meets his potential. I think the goal should be to have him ready for opening day 2016 so that the Sox can control his rights through their window of contention in 2016-2019.

 

Its either $5.5M and a callup or $6M+ and you keep him in the minors until he is ready. Getting him to go underslot at $5.5 likely allows you to sign BODM which is probably worth letting Rodon getting to arbitration a year earlier.

We can debate all we want Bor-ASS will want both IMO.

[chitownsportsfan]

We can debate all we want Bor-ASS will want both IMO.

 

I'm guessing Rodon's family isn't going to be very happy if he misses a half yea of development in arguably the single best org for pitching development because of 500k either way. 6 million will be chump change if he's signing a pre FA deal with the Sox before he turns 25.

[Soxfest]

I'm guessing Rodon's family isn't going to be very happy if he misses a half yea of development in arguably the single best org for pitching development because of 500k either way. 6 million will be chump change if he's signing a pre FA deal with the Sox before he turns 25.

It will be interesting how it plays out because Bor-ASS is the wildcard in this deal.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Soxfest

[LDF]

I'm guessing Rodon's family isn't going to be very happy if he misses a half yea of development in arguably the single best org for pitching development because of 500k either way. 6 million will be chump change if he's signing a pre FA deal with the Sox before he turns 25.

 

if I remember correctly, the sox had a deal with alex fernadez (misspell) and then borAss at the last

sec up the cost...... that started the whole feud.

 

I believe something to that effect also happen to arod.

 

so the bottom line, nothing is a sure thing with borAss.

 

however I am still holding out for some hope as RockRaines said.

[Melissa1334]

if I remember correctly, the sox had a deal with alex fernadez (misspell) and then borAss at the last

sec up the cost...... that started the whole feud.

 

I believe something to that effect also happen to arod.

 

so the bottom line, nothing is a sure thing with borAss.

 

however I am still holding out for some hope as RockRaines said.

also didnt the sox get pi**ed when they were trying to get johnny damon,we thought we were gonna get him, but he was just using their offer as leverage against the tigers?

[LDF]

also didnt the sox get pi**ed when they were trying to get johnny damon,we thought we were gonna get him, but he was just using their offer as leverage against the tigers?

 

oh crap..... you are right, but I forgot who was damon agent at the time.

 

good one.