Rodon pick big for the Sox?

[bmags]

if I remember correctly, the sox had a deal with alex fernadez (misspell) and then borAss at the last

sec up the cost...... that started the whole feud.

 

I believe something to that effect also happen to arod.

 

so the bottom line, nothing is a sure thing with borAss.

 

however I am still holding out for some hope as RockRaines said.

 

Here's the thing, this isn't an open market deal. His only leverage is basically going back for a senior year, or going independent league. Both carry tremendous risk.

[LDF]

Here's the thing, this isn't an open market deal. His only leverage is basically going back for a senior year, or going independent league. Both carry tremendous risk.

 

 

going the independent route is 1 yr and then he is a fa. signing for whomever offer the most money.

[chitownsportsfan]

going the independent route is 1 yr and then he is a fa. signing for whomever offer the most money.

 

Let's see, 6 million guaranteed, a fast track to the big leagues, or nothing guaranteed and a year of bus rides and hefty insurance payments on that arm. Sure, it's in the realm of possiblity. It's also possible the Sox finish the year with 100 wins -- just don't bet on it.

[bmags]

going the independent route is 1 yr and then he is a fa. signing for whomever offer the most money.

 

Again, the risk here is tremendous.

[The Ultimate Champion]

No way. He either gets above slot money or he gets the fast track. Absolutely no reason to give him both. Considering the way he was used this season, I imagine that his workload will be relatively light the rest of the year. They may pitch him a couple innings out of the bullpen every fifth day to keep him on schedule and limit his innings. There is no reason to start his arb clock and go over slot in the same deal as that will cost the Sox a lot more money down the road if Rodon meets his potential. I think the goal should be to have him ready for opening day 2016 so that the Sox can control his rights through their window of contention in 2016-2019.

 

Its either $5.5M and a callup or $6M+ and you keep him in the minors until he is ready. Getting him to go underslot at $5.5 likely allows you to sign BODM which is probably worth letting Rodon getting to arbitration a year earlier.

Who cares how much money we give him as long as the Sox get their guy soon & don't lose a pick?

 

BODM is getting vastly overrated here thanks to a weak draft after the second round. Think about this, both Javy Guerra and Maikel Cleto have SU/CL stuff but with other issues too, they were free via waivers. There are always going to be big arms who need a lot of work available. The guy isn't even worth considering in the Rodon signability stuff, I mean, there is a reason he went until the 14th round. Just off our own recent history we've DFAd the likes of Jhan Marinez, Clevelan Santeliz, Gregory Infante, etc. all of whom at one time were considered legitimate RP prospects with great arms. I know Santeliz made AAA and the other 2 actually got to pitch in the majors. Letting de Oca go isn't really an issue, if he signs great, if not whatever. But you don't screw around with Rodon over that guy. You can always find these kinds of arms. Basically if the Sox give the kid $500K and pay for his schooling they are doing him a massive favor that could provide for him a career playing baseball. If he says no thank you and wants to gamble that much then good luck kid.

 

 

[bmags]

Who cares how much money we give him as long as the Sox get their guy soon & don't lose a pick?

 

BODM is getting vastly overrated here thanks to a weak draft after the second round. Think about this, both Javy Guerra and Maikel Cleto have SU/CL stuff but with other issues too, they were free via waivers. There are always going to be big arms who need a lot of work available. The guy isn't even worth considering in the Rodon signability stuff, I mean, there is a reason he went until the 14th round. Just off our own recent history we've DFAd the likes of Jhan Marinez, Clevelan Santeliz, Gregory Infante, etc. all of whom at one time were considered legitimate RP prospects with great arms. I know Santeliz made AAA and the other 2 actually got to pitch in the majors. Letting de Oca go isn't really an issue, if he signs great, if not whatever. But you don't screw around with Rodon over that guy. You can always find these kinds of arms. Basically if the Sox give the kid $500K and pay for his schooling they are doing him a massive favor that could provide for him a career playing baseball. If he says no thank you and wants to gamble that much then good luck kid.

 

He's not getting massively overrated at all, you aren't going to be in trouble as an organization if you add a bunch of live arms to your system. Whether he pans out or not, it's the type of risk you take.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I have no problem with signing the guy, in fact I hope we do, and whatever bonus money we have left, we might as well use it all. However I think it's pretty short sighted at best to play hardball with Rodon over some 14th round kid that's probably going to shred his arm before he sees the Major Leagues.

 

In a perfect world we get Rodon in here quickly, Danks and so on rub off on him, and he ditches Borass before the extension talks kick in. Show the kid his respect and get the deal done. The Astros set the bar with Aiken, nobody else is getting more than him, so give Rodon a tick above Aiken, tell him he's the best, then put a uniform on him and send him out there to earn it. And forget about De Oca, if there's money left and he'll take it, great, if not, oh well.

[ptatc]

I have no problem with signing the guy, in fact I hope we do, and whatever bonus money we have left, we might as well use it all. However I think it's pretty short sighted at best to play hardball with Rodon over some 14th round kid that's probably going to shred his arm before he sees the Major Leagues.

 

In a perfect world we get Rodon in here quickly, Danks and so on rub off on him, and he ditches Borass before the extension talks kick in. Show the kid his respect and get the deal done. The Astros set the bar with Aiken, nobody else is getting more than him, so give Rodon a tick above Aiken, tell him he's the best, then put a uniform on him and send him out there to earn it. And forget about De Oca, if there's money left and he'll take it, great, if not, oh well.

Rodon is as likely to injure his arm as the other guy so you may as well attempt to get both.

 

Whose to say Boras won't ask for more than Aiken as he accepted a deal for well under slot.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Rodon is as likely to injure his arm as the other guy so you may as well attempt to get both.

 

Whose to say Boras won't ask for more than Aiken as he accepted a deal for well under slot.

Why would you say that?

 

De Oca had 2 TJ surgeries and he just got out of high school. Rodon is a college player who has never had the procedure. How are they even remotely close? Also Coop likes Rodon so I'm assuming there's not some serious or at least unfixable mechanical issues there.

[bmags]

Why would you say that?

 

De Oca had 2 TJ surgeries and he just got out of high school. Rodon is a college player who has never had the procedure. How are they even remotely close? Also Coop likes Rodon so I'm assuming there's not some serious or at least unfixable mechanical issues there.

 

He has only had 1 TJ surgery.

[ptatc]

Why would you say that?

 

De Oca had 2 TJ surgeries and he just got out of high school. Rodon is a college player who has never had the procedure. How are they even remotely close? Also Coop likes Rodon so I'm assuming there's not some serious or at least unfixable mechanical issues there.

I only read about one surgery.

 

Even so, once the ligament is replaced it is stronger than the original, so theoretically less likely to happen again. Of course, it could.

 

Rodon has all the earmarks of possible arm trouble. Over use prior to the pros, high velocity thrower, reliance on breaking pitches. All of these may lead to injury. He may also be able to handle it.

 

All in all, I would not say that either will have a greater chance for injury.

Edited June 10, 2014 by ptatc

[The Ultimate Champion]

He has only had 1 TJ surgery.

Hmm, I thought I saw he had that done twice? Well I like him a lot better now then. Still wouldn't play hardball with Rodon over the kid, but I'd be much happier if he signs now.

[farmteam]

I only read about one surgery.

 

Even so, once the ligament is replaced it is stronger than the original, so theoretically less likely to happen again. Of course, it could.

 

Rodon has all the earmarks of possible arm trouble. Over use prior to the pros, high velocity thrower, reliance on breaking pitches. All of these may lead to injury. He may also be able to handle it.

 

All in all, I would not say that either will have a greater chance for injury.

I had thought this was one of those common myths. Usually there is that period before the surgery where the arm is getting weaker but it's not as noticeable, so after the surgery the pitcher is back to what he actually was, even if he seems stronger.

[bmags]

Hmm, I thought I saw he had that done twice? Well I like him a lot better now then. Still wouldn't play hardball with Rodon over the kid, but I'd be much happier if he signs now.

 

I don't want to play hardball with Rodon for this kid, I don't think anyone would risk Rodon for him.

 

I am just intrigued by de Oca because he is the only "questionable" pick left and that is always exciting.

 

I say that because Rodon is going to sign. And I don't care if he signs for 6.5 mill if that's what it takes.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I don't want to play hardball with Rodon for this kid, I don't think anyone would risk Rodon for him.

 

I am just intrigued by de Oca because he is the only "questionable" pick left and that is always exciting.

 

I say that because Rodon is going to sign. And I don't care if he signs for 6.5 mill if that's what it takes.

Yeah I agree with all this. I want Rodon here sooner than later & I would like it if the Sox can make a good impression on the kid, get the ball rolling in the right direction for the sake of future negotiations should they be necessary.

 

My opinion on MDO definitely changes knowing he only had TJ once. I swear I read 2 TJs somewhere, here or elsewhere. Maybe not, maybe was someone else or someone else implanting thoughts into my brain from afar just to screw with me (caulfield?), but whatever, I definitely would like to sign him now. But also that improves his chances of making it through college without further injury, so maybe it would take more than half a million or so.

 

But no matter what I will be happy with this entire draft should we get Rodon on here pretty quickly, and anything else is just icing on the cake. Laumann said he thought 3-4 weeks, Hahn isn't a-scared of Borass, so maybe we'll get this thing done pretty soon. Ideally that is the case because then you throw whatever your remaining bonus amount is at BMDO along with whatever other perks you can pull together while still sticking to the CBA guidelines, and then you make your offer.

 

Also:

 

I find it interesting that in this pic he looks in his late 30's, early 40's, I bet your average sales clerk would sell him beer without ID before he'd sell to Brent Lillibridge ID or not. Also I bet he buys beer for his friends & in KC he's porbably been buying chew and smokes for his buddies since he was 14. Also I like turtles.

[ptatc]

I had thought this was one of those common myths. Usually there is that period before the surgery where the arm is getting weaker but it's not as noticeable, so after the surgery the pitcher is back to what he actually was, even if he seems stronger.

I'm referring to the replaced ligament being stronger not the strength of the pitcher's muscles.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah I agree with all this. I want Rodon here sooner than later & I would like it if the Sox can make a good impression on the kid, get the ball rolling in the right direction for the sake of future negotiations should they be necessary.

 

My opinion on MDO definitely changes knowing he only had TJ once. I swear I read 2 TJs somewhere, here or elsewhere. Maybe not, maybe was someone else or someone else implanting thoughts into my brain from afar just to screw with me (caulfield?), but whatever, I definitely would like to sign him now. But also that improves his chances of making it through college without further injury, so maybe it would take more than half a million or so.

 

But no matter what I will be happy with this entire draft should we get Rodon on here pretty quickly, and anything else is just icing on the cake. Laumann said he thought 3-4 weeks, Hahn isn't a-scared of Borass, so maybe we'll get this thing done pretty soon. Ideally that is the case because then you throw whatever your remaining bonus amount is at BMDO along with whatever other perks you can pull together while still sticking to the CBA guidelines, and then you make your offer.

 

Also:

 

I find it interesting that in this pic he looks in his late 30's, early 40's, I bet your average sales clerk would sell him beer without ID before he'd sell to Brent Lillibridge ID or not. Also I bet he buys beer for his friends & in KC he's porbably been buying chew and smokes for his buddies since he was 14. Also I like turtles.

 

A friend of mine used to be able to buy beer without getting carded as a freshman in high school. That was convenient. As for Kolek, I hope he turns into a freak and throws 105 MPH or more. It would be awesome to see. I just have a bad feeling. Andrews had a list of reasons for all the TJ surgeries and Kolek could have put a check next to each one of them.

[LittleHurt05]

A friend of mine used to be able to buy beer without getting carded as a freshman in high school. That was convenient. As for Kolek, I hope he turns into a freak and throws 105 MPH or more. It would be awesome to see. I just have a bad feeling. Andrews had a list of reasons for all the TJ surgeries and Kolek could have put a check next to each one of them.

 

As a HS junior my buddy would walk into Binny's and buy kegs with no issue. He was there so much, then they offered him a job and he so needed the money, but wasn't sure what the reaction would be if they found out he was 16, or if they would still hire him.

[witesoxfan]

going the independent route is 1 yr and then he is a fa. signing for whomever offer the most money.

 

This is incorrect. Aaron Crow went this route and likely cost himself money.

 

I'm guessing you have to be something like 25 or 26 before you can bypass the draft (and that may not even be true); otherwise, you will be subject to being drafted every single season, at which point you either sign a contract or forgo your right to play in the MLB (and affiliated MiLB teams) for that calendar year.

 

If you are an amateur player, you will be subjected to the draft every single year.

[harfman77]

going the independent route is 1 yr and then he is a fa. signing for whomever offer the most money.

 

This is not true. He can go to the independent league, but is subject to the draft again next year. Aaron Crow did this when he was drafted in 2008.

 

He could go back and hope to have a bounce-back season. Appel went back and then went #1 overall the next season, while he signed underslot, it was still more than he would have gotten at #8. I think that Rodon signs because the risks outweigh anything he could possibly gain by returning to school another season, but I think it will take a while as Boras has been known to start negotiating seriously very close to the deadline to increase his leverage with his top picks.

 

However, last season Appel (Boras client) signed on the 19th of June so maybe the new system has altered the way that he operates.

[Kyyle23]

This is not true. He can go to the independent league, but is subject to the draft again next year. Aaron Crow did this when he was drafted in 2008.

 

He could go back and hope to have a bounce-back season. Appel went back and then went #1 overall the next season, while he signed underslot, it was still more than he would have gotten at #8. I think that Rodon signs because the risks outweigh anything he could possibly gain by returning to school another season, but I think it will take a while as Boras has been known to start negotiating seriously very close to the deadline to increase his leverage with his top picks.

 

However, last season Appel (Boras client) signed on the 19th of June so maybe the new system has altered the way that he operates.

 

Yea, in this specific situation you have to think it is in Boras' best interest(and Rodons, but we all know it is Boras) to get his client signed and into the minors. If the Sox plan on bringing Rodon to the majors as quick as possible, then it only speeds up the time that it takes to get Rodon onto the open market, which is what Boras truly wants.

[Eminor3rd]

The indie league thing is risky and low-upside under the current CBA. Not only do you put yourself at tremendous risk for injury, but you forfeit time in a ML player development system and forfeit time working up to accruing ML service time, which is where the real money is anyway. The rewards in the pseudo-hard slot environment of today just don't line up. If you go at it long enough to be a FA, all those risks just multiply.

[witesoxfan]

Seriously, any concern of Rodon not signing is completely unwarranted. There is a 99.999% chance he is signing.

[flavum]

Rodon's pitching coach interview

 

http://thegamechicago.com/2014/06/10/tom-h.../#axzz34JzjyzDH

[ILMOU]

Seriously, any concern of Rodon not signing is completely unwarranted. There is a 99.999% chance he is signing.

This. Our fear is Boras' only leverage. Don't let the bastard see you sweat. RH won't.