Alex Rios Trade

[GGajewski18]

I know it gets talked about a lot around here, but I just had a thought in my mind. If the Rios trade wasn't all about salary relief, what do you guys think we could of gotten from the Rangers for Rios?

[LDF]

I know it gets talked about a lot around here, but I just had a thought in my mind. If the Rios trade wasn't all about salary relief, what do you guys think we could of gotten from the Rangers for Rios?

 

as much as I hate to admit it, it was nothing but a salary dump. my feeling, that was the best

offer any team was going to offer.

[GGajewski18]

as much as I hate to admit it, it was nothing but a salary dump. my feeling, that was the best

offer any team was going to offer.

 

I know, I'm just saying hypothetically. What we could of got of Rios' caliber

[LDF]

I know, I'm just saying hypothetically. What we could of got of Rios' caliber

 

 

oops sorry, for my way of writing, but I meant getting what we got may have been the best offer.

[Quin]

I know, I'm just saying hypothetically. What we could of got of Rios' caliber

 

Leury Garcia

 

Seriously, nothing more.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I know, I'm just saying hypothetically. What we could of got of Rios' caliber

 

Do you mean if there was no such thing as salary, like what would the return be just purely on talent?

[LittleHurt05]

If the Sox didn't want to just dump salary, they wouldn't have traded Rios anyway.

[Melissa1334]

I don't regret that trade, we all wanted him gone. With his non chalont attitude and lack of hustle

[GoGoSox2k2]

If we do not trade Rios, we likely do not have the money to sign Abreu. Also, if we do not trade Rios he may have resulted in an extra win or two the last couple months which would have put us picking behind the Cubs in the draft and we would not have Rodon. Great move by Rick Hahn to shed that salary.

[Texsox]

It would probably make a better off season thread but removing money from the situation, what would baseball look like? I happen to be in favor of players wanting to make a lot of money. Without that motive, we would have way more Lebron situations with players flocking together in certain cities and the balance of competition would be even worse than it is now.

 

But the original question does highlight that with a better contract Rios could have brought back some talent. There are some balance scales at work there.

[caulfield12]

If we do not trade Rios, we likely do not have the money to sign Abreu. Also, if we do not trade Rios he may have resulted in an extra win or two the last couple months which would have put us picking behind the Cubs in the draft and we would not have Rodon. Great move by Rick Hahn to shed that salary.

 

 

Well, you can also say the same thing about trading Peavy, Crain, Thornton, etc.

 

Or just the head-to-head record between the two teams last year.

 

I think it was more a result of the convergence of luck and circumstances (the two teams ahead of us being comfortable with high school pitching prospects and maybe not so enamored with Scott Boras or his traditionally-high slot demands) than this pretty out there idea that Hahn planned to take Rodon a year ago, since that wouldn't have even been possible unless we accumulated more losses than the Marlins and Astros, etc.

[Buehrle>Wood]

If we do not trade Rios, we likely do not have the money to sign Abreu.

I wonder how many tens of millions more they needed to throw at Tanaka for this board to stop saying this bs

[caulfield12]

I wonder how many tens of millions more they needed to throw at Tanaka for this board to stop saying this bs

 

 

Apparently $200 million.

 

 

It was easy to argue in 2005, when payroll went down as we parted with Ordonez, C-Lee and Valentin and added the veteran core in the form of about 8 new players that would lead us to the World Series title.

 

But a direct relationship between Abreu and Rios, or Peavy and Rios...is elusive to grasp at best.

[witesoxfan]

If we do not trade Rios, we likely do not have the money to sign Abreu. Also, if we do not trade Rios he may have resulted in an extra win or two the last couple months which would have put us picking behind the Cubs in the draft and we would not have Rodon. Great move by Rick Hahn to shed that salary.

 

This really is a fallacy at this point. The Sox committed $11 mill or so to Abreu and then were willing to commit somewhere around $140 million in total to Tanaka. If that is the case, they have always had the money.

 

The Rios trade was about getting rid of Alex Rios. The Rangers may have been willing to include a little more beyond Garcia had the Sox picked up some salary, but they were out of options - they needed him gone due to the presence of Avisail Garcia in the organization. That they got a player with any amount of upside who was near MLB ready is a bonus because I think they could have just as easily let Rios pass through waivers to the Rangers too.

[southsider2k5]

If we do not trade Rios, we likely do not have the money to sign Abreu. Also, if we do not trade Rios he may have resulted in an extra win or two the last couple months which would have put us picking behind the Cubs in the draft and we would not have Rodon. Great move by Rick Hahn to shed that salary.

 

Great call.

[caulfield12]

Great call.

 

 

 

Alex Rios OPS with the Rangers, .772

 

Avisail Garcia OPS with the White Sox, .774

 

 

 

Doubt it would have made any difference. In fact, with the team in free fall and everyone basically out for their own stats, you would/could/should even argue we might have lost more with Rios' attitude still in the clubhouse around the youngsters...

 

I get that he has a very solid 859 OPS right now, but that has no bearing on what transpired last season in the final 2 months.

Edited June 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[flavum]

Alex Rios was part of the problem. Move on.

[witesoxfan]

Alex Rios OPS with the Rangers, .772

 

Avisail Garcia OPS with the White Sox, .774

 

 

 

Doubt it would have made any difference. In fact, with the team in free fall and everyone basically out for their own stats, you would even argue we might have lost more with Rios still in the clubhouse...

 

I get that he has a very solid 859 OPS right now, but that has no bearing on what transpired last season in the final 2 months.

 

Alex Rios was also far superior on the base paths and in the field. He was a better player in the last 6-8 weeks of the season last year than Avisail Garcia.

[ptatc]

I wonder how many tens of millions more they needed to throw at Tanaka for this board to stop saying this bs

I don't think it's BS. They were willing to spend that money on a potential #1 starter. I don't think they would have gone too far with a good first baseman who many people had many questions about.

 

They aren't the same player or situations.

[caulfield12]

Alex Rios was also far superior on the base paths and in the field. He was a better player in the last 6-8 weeks of the season last year than Avisail Garcia.

 

 

But there's no way to quantify what affect his mood/attitude had on the clubhouse.

 

 

White Sox before Rios trade (43-71, .377 winning percentage)

 

After Alex Rios trade (Aug 9)...finished 20-28, for a .417 winning percentage.

 

 

 

If you extrapolate the team's record with Rios, they would have been expected to finish 61-101. That he played BETTER for the Rangers, in your opinion, doesn't mean he would have put up those same exact numbers (especially 16/17 in stolen bases) in Chicago for the final 6-7 weeks.

Edited June 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

But there's no way to quantify what affect his mood/attitude had on the clubhouse.

 

 

White Sox before Rios trade (43-71, .377 winning percentage)

 

After Alex Rios trade (Aug 9)...finished 20-28, for a .417 winning percentage.

 

 

 

If you extrapolate the team's record with Rios, they would have been expected to finish 61-101. That he played BETTER for the Rangers, in your opinion, doesn't mean he would have put up those same exact numbers (especially 16/17 in stolen bases) in Chicago for the final 6-7 weeks.

 

But I'm using what I do know, which says that Alex Rios was a better baseball player down the stretch.

 

If you want, you can speculate that because Alex Rios was dining with both the wives of Dunn and Ramirez while also getting cotton candy for Viciedo's family but not De Aza's while consistently getting the right chewing tobacco for Mark Parent but always getting the wrong bubble gum for Robin Ventura, he was causing problems in the clubhouse, but there is absolutely no way to quantify those numbers so why are you even trying? It never seemed like Rios caused problems with his attitude in Chicago other than the occasional lack of hustle, and the team damn near won the division twice when he was with the White Sox.

[caulfield12]

But I'm using what I do know, which says that Alex Rios was a better baseball player down the stretch.

 

If you want, you can speculate that because Alex Rios was dining with both the wives of Dunn and Ramirez while also getting cotton candy for Viciedo's family but not De Aza's while consistently getting the right chewing tobacco for Mark Parent but always getting the wrong bubble gum for Robin Ventura, he was causing problems in the clubhouse, but there is absolutely no way to quantify those numbers so why are you even trying? It never seemed like Rios caused problems with his attitude in Chicago other than the occasional lack of hustle, and the team damn near won the division twice when he was with the White Sox.

But they didn't.

 

You really don't think it's human nature to try harder to impress new teammates, especially when you're going from one of the three worst teams in the majors (with perhaps the most negative attitude/mindset of any Sox team in recent memory, and the most mental mistakes) to one of the best franchises in recent MLB history?

 

Fair enough.

 

What do Rock Raines and bucket think about this specific question?

 

There's no way I'm going to be convinced we would have won more games with Rios still around.

 

We can look at their record before he left the team (.377) and afterwards (.417) and that's just as compelling as virtually identical OPS numbers.

Edited June 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[harfman77]

But I'm using what I do know, which says that Alex Rios was a better baseball player down the stretch.

 

If you want, you can speculate that because Alex Rios was dining with both the wives of Dunn and Ramirez while also getting cotton candy for Viciedo's family but not De Aza's while consistently getting the right chewing tobacco for Mark Parent but always getting the wrong bubble gum for Robin Ventura, he was causing problems in the clubhouse, but there is absolutely no way to quantify those numbers so why are you even trying? It never seemed like Rios caused problems with his attitude in Chicago other than the occasional lack of hustle, and the team damn near won the division twice when he was with the White Sox.

 

Alex Rios is a good player on good teams. He is a guy that seems to play to the level of his team performing poorly when he is on a bad team raising his level of play when things are going well for his team. He is the baseball equivalent of a chameleon. He does not have the make-up to carry a team and be a star but he can be very good in a complimentary role.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I don't think it's BS. They were willing to spend that money on a potential #1 starter. I don't think they would have gone too far with a good first baseman who many people had many questions about.

 

They aren't the same player or situations.

Getting Abreu was a direct order from the chairman. They likely didn't care how much they spent on him.

[harfman77]

But they didn't.

 

You really don't think it's human nature to try harder to impress new teammates, especially when you're going from one of the three worst teams in the majors (with perhaps the most negative attitude/mindset of any Sox team in recent memory, and the most mental mistakes) to one of the best franchises in recent MLB history?

 

Fair enough.

 

What do Rock Raines and bucket think about this specific question?

 

There's no way I'm going to be convinced we would have won more games with Rios still around.

 

We can look at their record before he left the team (.377) and afterwards (.417) and that's just as compelling as virtually identical OPS numbers.

 

 

The fact they didn't had a lot more to do with the complete 180 in production at the 1B position for the last half of the season than anything that Rios did. Rios is a better player than Garcia at this time, Garcia has a chance to develop into a better player but isn't there yet. Personally, I think that their offensive games are fairly similar while Rios was a plus defender in RF Garcia appears that he will struggle to be average. Its a fools errand to try and determine how the Sox would have finished if they had kept Rios, there are too many factors to possibly be taken into account. Leury can be a piece of a championship team in the way that Pablo Ozuna was last time.