The Ultimate Champion Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) Semantics, but I'd say he's a 2-5 WAR player. Still, the point remains valid. Great so let's see Hahn go ahead and trade Leury Garcia for a 2-5 WAR player that can help us in the OF, rotation, bullpen, or as a starter in the IF. Seriously, let's see him do that. Seriously. Do it. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's like I woke up and Soxtalk became "Who Gives A s***, USA?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I don't know where anyone is getting the Sox would have drafted lower had they kept Rios. They were 3 games worse than the Cubs and Rios was basically replaced by Garcia who did pretty good last year. It's good that he's gone even if he is producing. That play during Darvish's near perfect game is all you really need to know about Alex Rios. Edited June 10, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 06:10 PM) I don't know where anyone is getting the Sox would have drafted lower had they kept Rios. They were 3 games worse than the Cubs and Rios was basically replaced by Garcia who did pretty good last year. It's good that he's gone even if he is producing. That play during Darvish's near perfect game is all you really need to know about Alex Rios. I been trying to get to post this for a while, now I am home here goes. lets look at this in the $$ way and take the cost of diminishing returns, if we kept Rios, we will pay his salary and we really don't improve our position with the team talent. we trade Rios and his salary, we get a player / prospects in return, salary is lower, how many more wins do we really lose with the change, however the savings of $$ and maybe start the building now. we all knew that the house needed to get rebuilt, domino effect starts. do we have a need to scout other regions for players / prospects if our salary is still over $100 mil? how bout the flexibility to make other moves???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 06:10 PM) I don't know where anyone is getting the Sox would have drafted lower had they kept Rios. They were 3 games worse than the Cubs and Rios was basically replaced by Garcia who did pretty good last year. It's good that he's gone even if he is producing. That play during Darvish's near perfect game is all you really need to know about Alex Rios. I was gone, can you please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) Great so let's see Hahn go ahead and trade Leury Garcia for a 2-5 WAR player that can help us in the OF, rotation, bullpen, or as a starter in the IF. Seriously, let's see him do that. Seriously. Do it. Now. It's a rebuilding year. It has been since June of last year. Just keep repeating that. That money saved help free up money for Abreu and the Quintana extension. You're missing the point: Chicago needed more payroll space more than they needed an overpaid average starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) Great so let's see Hahn go ahead and trade Leury Garcia for a 2-5 WAR player that can help us in the OF, rotation, bullpen, or as a starter in the IF. Seriously, let's see him do that. Seriously. Do it. Now. BJ Upton for Leury Garcia (I want to note that I do not approve of the above trade for any number of reasons, but to suggest that BJ Upton is not a 2-5 WAR player who would help the White Sox win ball games is false) Edited June 10, 2014 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) It's a rebuilding year. It has been since June of last year. Just keep repeating that. That money saved help free up money for Abreu and the Quintana extension. You're missing the point: Chicago needed more payroll space more than they needed an overpaid average starter. There are no tanks in Baghdad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) BJ Upton for Leury Garcia (I want to note that I do not approve of the above trade for any number of reasons, but to suggest that BJ Upton is not a 2-5 WAR player who would help the White Sox win ball games is false) I wouldn't object to BJ Upton, however he's been dead for 2 years now and his corpse has put up a -1.0 WAR since it signed with ATL. Not sure I want that. Edited June 10, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) Great so let's see Hahn go ahead and trade Leury Garcia for a 2-5 WAR player that can help us in the OF, rotation, bullpen, or as a starter in the IF. Seriously, let's see him do that. Seriously. Do it. Now. Would you trade Leury Garcia for Matt Kemp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) Would you trade Leury Garcia for Matt Kemp? The other way of saying this would be "would you take on Matt Kemp's massive contract and with the return being negligible?" And I don't know, the guy is owed a lot of money but if the Sox felt they could keep him healthy & that he'd be worth the deal then maybe. I think it would be dumb but he does has superstar talent. I think I see what you are trying to do though, and it's absurd to compare 2.5 years of Alex Rios one of which is an option, and a total of $12.5M guaranteed plus the remainder of his 2013 salary after the Sox sent $1M to a guy who is guaranteed $107M plus the remainder of his $21M 2014 salary through 2019. That's fine though, because any argument that says we got a solid return for Alex holds no water & therefore absurdity must be thrown in for the argument to continue in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Would you trade Leury Garcia for Matt Kemp? If Dodgers ate half the money, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Who's Alex Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 10, 2014 -> 05:15 PM) I wouldn't object to BJ Upton, however he's been dead for 2 years now and his corpse has put up a -1.0 WAR since it signed with ATL. Not sure I want that. -0.1 WAR. Alex Rios also put up a -1.1 WAR when he was 30. And all you asked me to do was find one guy who could put up a 2-5 WAR for whom the Sox could trade for using Leury Garcia. I have responded. I win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 10:53 PM) I know it gets talked about a lot around here, but I just had a thought in my mind. If the Rios trade wasn't all about salary relief, what do you guys think we could of gotten from the Rangers for Rios? Not much. Unless the sox gave te pirates 14 million to cover Rios' salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 07:30 AM) -0.1 WAR. Alex Rios also put up a -1.1 WAR when he was 30. And all you asked me to do was find one guy who could put up a 2-5 WAR for whom the Sox could trade for using Leury Garcia. I have responded. I win. Except Rios wasn't terrible two seasons in a row. And it has nothing to do with Leury Garcia's value, it's ONLY about money for Upton/Kemp/Joe Mauer, etc. Because we could obviously have Mauer if we assumed the rest of that contract as well. Rios had a 798 and 744 OPS in 2008 and then in 2009 with the Blue Jays. It wasn't until after he joined the White Sox in 2009 that he was really terrible (.530 OPS). Nobody in baseball would assume BJ Upton's contract today, any more than they would Adam Dunn's for the remainder of the season. KW was willing to take that risk on Rios' talent. Different situations. Plus, the Braves value Upton's presence for the value it provides to Justin. Edited June 11, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 11:32 AM) Except Rios wasn't terrible two seasons in a row. And it has nothing to do with Leury Garcia's value, it's ONLY about money for Upton/Kemp/Joe Mauer, etc. Because we could obviously have Mauer if we assumed the rest of that contract as well. Rios had a 798 and 744 OPS in 2008 and then in 2009 with the Blue Jays. It wasn't until after he joined the White Sox in 2009 that he was really terrible (.530 OPS). Nobody in baseball would assume BJ Upton's contract today, any more than they would Adam Dunn's for the remainder of the season. KW was willing to take that risk on Rios' talent. Different situations. Plus, the Braves value Upton's presence for the value it provides to Justin. I honestly see absolutely no difference between BJ Upton and Alex Rios other than the fact that the Sox don't need to take a chance on that contract. There's also plenty of time for Upton to turn this season around (even though he hasn't been a terrible player, but he has been pretty poor with the bat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I don't really miss watching Rios. /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It was well documented that Texas wanted rios for free in 2014. Hahn said f*** no, we'll just accept the waiver and you are stuck with everything in exchange for 50 grand( the transfer fee). The rangers should be lucky they even got the sox to give up $1 million in 2013 salary in exchange for Garcia. It was also reported that the pirates wanted rios, but the players they offered were not enough for Hahn to pick up 2014 salary. Unlike a certain genius on Addison and Clark, who have the YANKEES 14 million to take soriano in exchange for alone fourth round pitching prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) I honestly see absolutely no difference between BJ Upton and Alex Rios other than the fact that the Sox don't need to take a chance on that contract. There's also plenty of time for Upton to turn this season around (even though he hasn't been a terrible player, but he has been pretty poor with the bat). What? You really don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 08:26 PM) It was well documented that Texas wanted rios for free in 2014. Hahn said f*** no, we'll just accept the waiver and you are stuck with everything in exchange for 50 grand( the transfer fee). The rangers should be lucky they even got the sox to give up $1 million in 2013 salary in exchange for Garcia. It was also reported that the pirates wanted rios, but the players they offered were not enough for Hahn to pick up 2014 salary. Unlike a certain genius on Addison and Clark, who have the YANKEES 14 million to take soriano in exchange for alone fourth round pitching prospect. thanks for the additional info but the bottom line is this was the best we can get and it was nothing but a salary dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) What? You really don't? Honestly, no. I think if you put BJ Upton in this situation 4 years ago with Jermaine Dye set to become a free agent and the Sox had a general lack of depth and youth in the outfield in general, I think the Sox would claim BJ Upton too. Rios is a better hitter, but Upton brings the requisite athleticism that Williams coveted and is a far better defensive player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 It was absolutely the weakest trade of Hahn's tenure so far, both on paper and in terms of result. I think he could have got more if he traded him before the deadline, but obviously it wasn't that much more if he didn't pull the trigger. I think the biggest fault lies with the league for underrating Rios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 08:43 PM) It was absolutely the weakest trade of Hahn's tenure so far, both on paper and in terms of result. I think he could have got more if he traded him before the deadline, but obviously it wasn't that much more if he didn't pull the trigger. I think the biggest fault lies with the league for underrating Rios. it is what it is. I also add Davidson / Reed trade ranks there. however to see a full value we need to wait for Davidson make it to the majors. Edited June 11, 2014 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) It was absolutely the weakest trade of Hahn's tenure so far, both on paper and in terms of result. I think he could have got more if he traded him before the deadline, but obviously it wasn't that much more if he didn't pull the trigger. I think the biggest fault lies with the league for underrating Rios. I don't disagree with this. I think teams fear his inconsistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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