Lillian Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) I've not seen anyone at this point who should displace him because they offer similar or equal production. I fully understand the concept of cost savings, but you don't dump a player for $6 million if he's finally fulfilling some of his untapped potential because you are going to be stubborn about it. We've resisted the temptation to sell low on him for this long, so now he finally starts looking like the hitter you thought he would be, at the age of 27 no less, and you dump him for nothing because of $6 million? That is the epitome of being short-sighted. Again, obviously it depends on the return. If someone offers a legitimate piece for the future, a piece of need, then sure, go ahead and put your faith in Semien or whomever. But barring that, and I really do doubt you get that kind of offer, what is the risk in holding him? If he flames out again, you non-tender him next year and escape the $6 million price tag and let one of the kids take over. But if this is for real, and you trade him for some marginal prospect or reliever so you can make a futile run at a one-game playoff, and then he continues to hit like this for another team after you've endured all the growing pains of his development, well then you've really made a stupid move. My sentiments, exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) Pretty sure the least the Dodgers would even consider is Jose Quintana. I would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 11, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) What teams are interested in Beckham? Cubs still? What could we realistically get for him? Beckham for Jason Hammel? Although I'm not sure the Cubs need any middle infielders for their future plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) I've not seen anyone at this point who should displace him because they offer similar or equal production. I fully understand the concept of cost savings, but you don't dump a player for $6 million if he's finally fulfilling some of his untapped potential because you are going to be stubborn about it. We've resisted the temptation to sell low on him for this long, so now he finally starts looking like the hitter you thought he would be, at the age of 27 no less, and you dump him for nothing because of $6 million? That is the epitome of being short-sighted. Again, obviously it depends on the return. If someone offers a legitimate piece for the future, a piece of need, then sure, go ahead and put your faith in Semien or whomever. But barring that, and I really do doubt you get that kind of offer, what is the risk in holding him? If he flames out again, you non-tender him next year and escape the $6 million price tag and let one of the kids take over. But if this is for real, and you trade him for some marginal prospect or reliever so you can make a futile run at a one-game playoff, and then he continues to hit like this for another team after you've endured all the growing pains of his development, well then you've really made a stupid move. The reason we've held onto him this long is because we haven't had any other options at all. Now we do. Letting him go would not be as stubborn as continually insisting that he's destined to be a star despite four consecutive seasons of garbage. He's doing nothing differently, and he's seeing different results. Safe money is that the 2500 PA of before are more indicative of what will happen going forward than the 100 most recent PA. It's a gamble, sure, but I'd be more inclined to believe in it if it was the result of a change in approach or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Seems odd to me that we wait and wait for this 1st round pick to reach his potential and now that he does, we all want to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) Seems odd to me that we wait and wait for this 1st round pick to reach his potential and now that he does, we all want to trade him. The 2500 pa of below avg production weigh heavier than a meaningless 1st round history and 100 pa this year. Strike while the iron is hot Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The 2500 pa of below avg production weigh heavier than a meaningless 1st round history and 100 pa this year. Strike while the iron is hot Hahn. Isn't the 2500 PA of below avg production also going to weigh heavier for the teams making the offers? Selling high isn't as easy as it sounds because teams don't like to buy high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 01:53 PM) Isn't the 2500 PA of below avg production also going to weigh heavier for the teams making the offers? Selling high isn't as easy as it sounds because teams don't like to buy high. Excellent point but teams like the Yankees will probably overpay based on desperation at the deadline. If he is traded max levarage will be in July, not the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) The reason we've held onto him this long is because we haven't had any other options at all. Now we do. Letting him go would not be as stubborn as continually insisting that he's destined to be a star despite four consecutive seasons of garbage. He's doing nothing differently, and he's seeing different results. Safe money is that the 2500 PA of before are more indicative of what will happen going forward than the 100 most recent PA. It's a gamble, sure, but I'd be more inclined to believe in it if it was the result of a change in approach or something. That's just bs...how on earth are you in a position to know whether he is doing something differently or not? The 2500 PAs before also were at a very young age, after how many PAs in the minor leagues? What do you suppose we might be offered for him right now? If you think this is all a mirage, don't you believe most GMs will think the same (you all read the same s***)? And if the return isn't significant, what is the point in making the trade? You're risking an awful lot for almost nothing, when the alternative is just releasing him before next year. It makes no sense whatsoever. Edited June 12, 2014 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 07:29 AM) I've been thinking along these lines as well. The Sox and Dodgers match up well because of the OF situation: the Sox could use a good one and the Dodgers have one (or two) too many. My dream would be to somehow pry Joc Pederson from them. I don't think Beckham gets that done, but maybe if there is some kind of package deal or if Alexei is involved there's a slight chance. And it also prepares them to deal with things better if they lose the offseason Hanley sweepstakes to the Yankees. The loser of that bidding war will likely find Lexi VERY attractive, if in fact, we make him available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) I'm thinking he's close to untouchable for them. It's just a matter of time before they find someone to take Kemp, Crawford, or Ethier off their hands for half the salary or so, and Pederson will step right in. I agree as well. The other guy I think about is Stephen Piscotty from the Cards. He's been raking in AAA and is part of a crowded OF situation in St. Louis, making him somewhat expendable. I'd love to see the Sox work on a way to acquire him, though obviously Alexei isn't really an option there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) Excellent point but teams like the Yankees will probably overpay based on desperation at the deadline. If he is traded max levarage will be in July, not the off season. I agree, 2B is not a position teams typically pay a premium to fill. That said, there should definitely be less supply of quality 2B available next month than in the offseason and hopefully a few teams in need of one right now. Get two teams bidding for him, say the Blue Jays & Yankees, and maybe you can get something of decent value. If so, you take that offer immediately and put Semien at 2B the rest of the season. Banking on a transformed Gordon Beckham at $6M+ next year does not seem like great use of resources when we have three cheaper & promising alternatives in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) I agree, 2B is not a position teams typically pay a premium to fill. That said, there should definitely be less supply of quality 2B available next month than in the offseason and hopefully a few teams in need of one right now. Get two teams bidding for him, say the Blue Jays & Yankees, and maybe you can get something of decent value. If so, you take that offer immediately and put Semien at 2B the rest of the season. Banking on a transformed Gordon Beckham at $6M+ next year does not seem like great use of resources when we have three cheaper & promising alternatives in AAA. Yep you plan for the most likely scenario and that is what you described. If Beckham is really a 4 WAR 2b in the future well shoot but it sure as heck isn't the most likely scenario. Gotta allocate resources as you said and if we can get cheap production from semian or Sanchez atn2b it frees up resources to help elswhere, like the pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Yep you plan for the most likely scenario and that is what you described. If Beckham is really a 4 WAR 2b in the future well shoot but it sure as heck isn't the most likely scenario. Gotta allocate resources as you said and if we can get cheap production from semian or Sanchez atn2b it frees up resources to help elswhere, like the pitching staff. If Beckham is a 4 WAR secondbaseman, either Johnson or Semien have to be really good because you are not going to make up for that with at most $6 million on a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Beckham to the Braves makes too much sense not to happen. Uggla has been horses***, Bacon is a Georgia guy, and I think they still have Greg Walker don't they? I don't think they've fired him yet, maybe they have, but if he's there that's another reason for this to happen. I see on B-R the Braves have 3 young LH relievers. If any of them look pretty good I will take one of them at the MLB level now and as a centerpiece the Sox scouting department can find a high ceiling SP prospect. Not sure what their system looks like but there's always pitching over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) Seems odd to me that we wait and wait for this 1st round pick to reach his potential and now that he does, we all want to trade him. Because you get more for players when they actually have value. Beckham actually has value now, and I think most people here including myself don't trust that he has finally turned the corner. Every week I wait for him to plummit back to Earth like we all knew Tyler Flowers would. To Beckham's credit though, he has done a nice job sustaining it nearly 2 1/2 months in to the season. He is a fringe top-10 secondbaseman in baseball right now, and that has some value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Yep you plan for the most likely scenario and that is what you described. If Beckham is really a 4 WAR 2b in the future well shoot but it sure as heck isn't the most likely scenario. Gotta allocate resources as you said and if we can get cheap production from semian or Sanchez atn2b it frees up resources to help elswhere, like the pitching staff. Beckham isn't even on pace to be a 3 WAR player this year. He is at 1.1, and on pace for around 2.5, which is what he did in his rookie year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) One of the Braves top prospect is a 2B in AAA who was hitting ~.300 last I checked. Tommy La Stella is the name. Oh. Well the Giants, Oakland, Yankees, and Baltimore look like they could really use the help. The Jays don't look like they need him nearly as bad, but if AA loves Beckham maybe there's a deal there. The return still IMO should be RHSP with upside, but maybe the Sox would look at one of the Yankees catchers. The Giants always have pitching as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I would definitely think the Giants would have interest in Beckham. Despite his 8 HR and his very nice walk rate, Brandon Hicks is batting under .200 and is striking out 30% of the time. Maybe a return of someone like RHRP Heath Hembree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) Beckham to the Braves makes too much sense not to happen. Uggla has been horses***, Bacon is a Georgia guy, and I think they still have Greg Walker don't they? I don't think they've fired him yet, maybe they have, but if he's there that's another reason for this to happen. I see on B-R the Braves have 3 young LH relievers. If any of them look pretty good I will take one of them at the MLB level now and as a centerpiece the Sox scouting department can find a high ceiling SP prospect. Not sure what their system looks like but there's always pitching over there. Assistant hitting coach to Walker is former Sox infielder Scott The Scooter Fletcher, whose also daughter happens to be married to Gordon now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) Assistant hitting coach to Walker is former Sox infielder Scott The Scooter Fletcher, whose also daughter happens to be married to Gordon now. Just what every slayer would want, their father in law on all road trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) Beckham isn't even on pace to be a 3 WAR player this year. He is at 1.1, and on pace for around 2.5, which is what he did in his rookie year. That number is also skewed by missing a month of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) That number is also skewed by missing a month of the season. It's probably fair to start calling Beckham a high-DL risk guy though at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 08:27 PM) I would definitely think the Giants would have interest in Beckham. Despite his 8 HR and his very nice walk rate, Brandon Hicks is batting under .200 and is striking out 30% of the time. Maybe a return of someone like RHRP Heath Hembree? if i remember correctly, a while back some 2-3 wks, i was reading how the gaints was looking at beckham, but he was in the IR. i really like what tor has and been hoping for some time that something would happen concerning beckham and sox wanting to trade. i would be happy just to get some prospects to continue to build on. Edited June 12, 2014 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 12, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) Oh. Well the Giants, Oakland, Yankees, and Baltimore look like they could really use the help. The Jays don't look like they need him nearly as bad, but if AA loves Beckham maybe there's a deal there. The return still IMO should be RHSP with upside, but maybe the Sox would look at one of the Yankees catchers. The Giants always have pitching as well. From the Giants I would be interested in Heath Hembree and Keury Mella From the A's I would be looking at Michael Ynoa and BJ Boyd From the Yankees, Aaron Judge and Jose Campos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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