Priest killed

[Jake]

For many people gun owner ship equals safety. You can't discount that, despite the many times anti gunners try to. People DO use guns to protect themselves and their families. All the time.

 

As for a few of the other things you mentioned, I am sure many people would think twice about the license plate scanning and all the camera if they were given a choice. Many times those things were implemented without public knowledge until AFTER the fact.

 

You're right, I shouldn't discount the fact that people sometimes feel more protected by the availability of guns. That's part of the debate. More than just freedom, society has to decide whether the utility of gun ownership justifies their availability. The NRA has tried that with the "good guy with a gun" messaging.

 

Some states have that, at least for concealed carry. You have to pass a test in Illinois. There are several states that are more strict and some that have no restrictions whatsoever. One thing you will never overcome is the slippery slope argument, give them an inch, they take a mile. Because you know they will. Temporary income tax hike? Sure it is. Seat belt laws will NEVER be enforced on their own. Border security after amnesty? Yeah, ok, let's go with that...And on and on. What do you base the proficiency tests on? Police training? Harder? Easier? Who gets to decide?

 

here is what you need just to apply in Illinois:

A Valid Driver’s License or State Identification card.

A valid FOID card.

A head and shoulder electronic photograph taken within the last 30 days.

Be able to provide the last ten years of residency.

Fingerprints – Electronic fingerprints will expedite your application! Specify to the Live Scan vendor that your fingerprint application is for the Concealed Carry application (ORI = IL920707Z, Purpose Code = CCW).NOTE: Applicants will be assigned a transaction control number (TCN) at the time of fingerprinting and will be required to retain that TCN to complete the application.

$150.00 payable with a credit card or electronic check.

 

To obtain the Certificate of Completion, applicants MUST

attend their required level of training and successfully pass the live fire

proficiency exam. The live fire proficiency exam consists of 30 rounds total

with a concealable handgun. 10 rounds at 10 yards, 10 rounds at 7 yards and 10

rounds at 5 yards with 70% of the shots hitting the scoring rings of the B27 target.

 

 

Is that enough for you? If not, what would you consider to be correct? Serious question, not snark.

 

I don't see why not make that the requirement for gun ownership. At least make the proficiency exam as difficult as getting a driver's license.

[illinilaw08]

Some states have that, at least for concealed carry. You have to pass a test in Illinois. There are several states that are more strict and some that have no restrictions whatsoever. One thing you will never overcome is the slippery slope argument, give them an inch, they take a mile. Because you know they will. Temporary income tax hike? Sure it is. Seat belt laws will NEVER be enforced on their own. Border security after amnesty? Yeah, ok, let's go with that...And on and on. What do you base the proficiency tests on? Police training? Harder? Easier? Who gets to decide?

 

here is what you need just to apply in Illinois:

A Valid Driver’s License or State Identification card.

A valid FOID card.

A head and shoulder electronic photograph taken within the last 30 days.

Be able to provide the last ten years of residency.

Fingerprints – Electronic fingerprints will expedite your application! Specify to the Live Scan vendor that your fingerprint application is for the Concealed Carry application (ORI = IL920707Z, Purpose Code = CCW).NOTE: Applicants will be assigned a transaction control number (TCN) at the time of fingerprinting and will be required to retain that TCN to complete the application.

$150.00 payable with a credit card or electronic check.

 

To obtain the Certificate of Completion, applicants MUST

attend their required level of training and successfully pass the live fire

proficiency exam. The live fire proficiency exam consists of 30 rounds total

with a concealable handgun. 10 rounds at 10 yards, 10 rounds at 7 yards and 10

rounds at 5 yards with 70% of the shots hitting the scoring rings of the B27 target.

 

 

Is that enough for you? If not, what would you consider to be correct? Serious question, not snark.

 

Off the top of my head...

 

Nationalize the standards. Make a minimum level of competence to legally own a firearm across the country.

 

Include some sort of training on what to do in a crisis (especially to conceal and carry). It's very different to hit a target at 5-10 yards in a controlled setting and hitting an active shooter with bystanders in the area.

 

Include a written test to test the response of the applicant to certain gray area scenarios. My understanding is that gun classes teach you to retreat if at all possible before resorting to shots fired. I think a minority of gun owners are emboldened by having a gun leading to situations escalating that should not escalate (see George Zimmerman... if the dude never gets out of his car, Martin is still alive... and I'm skeptical he ever gets out of the car if he's not armed).

 

Require people to renew their license every 5 years or so. If my 80 year old grandfather suffers dementia, he should have his license to own firearms revoked (I'm not sure of the logistics that come with enforcement).

 

Basically, I think owning a gun is a pretty important responsibility because of just how dangerous guns can be to others if they are used improperly. Accordingly, we should be taking as many steps as possible to ensure people don't take on that responsibility lightly.

[Jenksismyhero]

So we implement these measures, and when we find out they have a disparate impact on minorities, you guys will be the first to scream unconstitutional right?

[Soxbadger]

That really isnt my type of argument, so Id bet a lot of money you never see it from me.

 

/shrugs

[EvilMonkey]

Off the top of my head...

 

Nationalize the standards. Make a minimum level of competence to legally own a firearm across the country.

But then you would have states where they keep trying to pass STRICTER gun laws having a s***fit because how dare you preempt them on states rights, etc.

 

Include some sort of training on what to do in a crisis (especially to conceal and carry). It's very different to hit a target at 5-10 yards in a controlled setting and hitting an active shooter with bystanders in the area.

 

Include a written test to test the response of the applicant to certain gray area scenarios. My understanding is that gun classes teach you to retreat if at all possible before resorting to shots fired. I think a minority of gun owners are emboldened by having a gun leading to situations escalating that should not escalate (see George Zimmerman... if the dude never gets out of his car, Martin is still alive... and I'm skeptical he ever gets out of the car if he's not armed).

 

Require people to renew their license every 5 years or so. If my 80 year old grandfather suffers dementia, he should have his license to own firearms revoked (I'm not sure of the logistics that come with enforcement).

 

Basically, I think owning a gun is a pretty important responsibility because of just how dangerous guns can be to others if they are used improperly. Accordingly, we should be taking as many steps as possible to ensure people don't take on that responsibility lightly.

Off the top of my head...

 

Nationalize the standards. Make a minimum level of competence to legally own a firearm across the country.

But then you would have states where they keep trying to pass STRICTER gun laws having a s***fit because how dare you preempt them on states rights, etc. Unless it is a national ban, however, and then they are all for it.

 

Include some sort of training on what to do in a crisis (especially to conceal and carry). It's very different to hit a target at 5-10 yards in a controlled setting and hitting an active shooter with bystanders in the area. Not a bad idea, although a few of the CCL classes instruct about that, not teach it.

 

Include a written test to test the response of the applicant to certain gray area scenarios. My understanding is that gun classes teach you to retreat if at all possible before resorting to shots fired. I think a minority of gun owners are emboldened by having a gun leading to situations escalating that should not escalate (see George Zimmerman... if the dude never gets out of his car, Martin is still alive... and I'm skeptical he ever gets out of the car if he's not armed). Most classes do tell you that retreat safely is usually best. However as in any business, there are some very bad CCl teachers out there that need to be closed down.

 

Require people to renew their license every 5 years or so. If my 80 year old grandfather suffers dementia, he should have his license to own firearms revoked (I'm not sure of the logistics that come with enforcement). You do have to renew a CCL every 5 years. I do not know what is required other than money and an updated background check to do so.

 

Basically, I think owning a gun is a pretty important responsibility because of just how dangerous guns can be to others if they are used improperly. Accordingly, we should be taking as many steps as possible to ensure people don't take on that responsibility lightly.

[ptatc]

So places with less freedoms have fewer problems?

In general, yes. Less gun violence in England were those laws mostly ban guns is an example. Planes in Isreal haven't been flown into buildings. They have real strict policies and really long wait in the airports due to security. Things like that where certain fredooms are taken away at the price of safety.

[StrangeSox]

In general, yes. Less gun violence in England were those laws mostly ban guns is an example. Planes in Isreal haven't been flown into buildings. They have real strict policies and really long wait in the airports due to security. Things like that where certain fredooms are taken away at the price of safety.

On the other hand, Syria, north Korea, etc.

[StrangeSox]

In general, yes. Less gun violence in England were those laws mostly ban guns is an example. Planes in Isreal haven't been flown into buildings. They have real strict policies and really long wait in the airports due to security. Things like that where certain fredooms are taken away at the price of safety.

On the other hand, Syria, north Korea, etc.