Trade Winds Forum?

[witesoxfan]

I'd find out if Walker is available at all. If they're willing to even discuss him, even if you have to work to get him, you have to try and find a combination that will get that move made.

[royoung]

I'd find out if Walker is available at all. If they're willing to even discuss him, even if you have to work to get him, you have to try and find a combination that will get that move made.

 

I'd have a hard time believing we could pry Walker from Seattle for anyone on our roster not named Chris or Jose. I think if they are trading him, it's for Price.

[cabiness42]

I'd have a hard time believing we could pry Walker from Seattle for anyone on our roster not named Chris or Jose. I think if they are trading him, it's for Price.

 

Time for a name change. Tonight's starting LF: Christopher Jose De Aza

[witesoxfan]

I'd have a hard time believing we could pry Walker from Seattle for anyone on our roster not named Chris or Jose. I think if they are trading him, it's for Price.

 

I agree, just saying that if he's available, you try and make it work. That is one pitcher I'd consider moving Quintana for.

[royoung]

I agree, just saying that if he's available, you try and make it work. That is one pitcher I'd consider moving Quintana for.

 

I'd probably do that deal actually. You take on a bit of risk, but Walker's upside is considerable.

[witesoxfan]

I'd probably do that deal actually. You take on a bit of risk, but Walker's upside is considerable.

 

Alexei Ramirez and Jose Quintana for Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin, and Erasmo Ramirez.

[Eminor3rd]

Alexei Ramirez and Jose Quintana for Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin, and Erasmo Ramirez.

 

You know, I don't even know if I'd do that.

 

I mean think about it: Walker could be an ace, sure, but he's already had shoulder issues. At this point, if you told the Mariners that Walker would settle in as a 3-4 fWAR pitcher in his mid-20's I think they'd be happy with that outcome. That's what Quintana already IS, and he's on an extension already.

 

Nick Franklin is a tweener defensively at SS, and Erasmo is really just an intriguing rebound candidate at this point.

 

Nah, I wouldn't make that deal. I'll take the bird in the hand.

[brian310]

Beckham to Toronto makes way too much sense if Sox fall out of it over next month.

 

It seems like Toronto is happy with the Lawrie-Francisco-Tolleson platoon between second and third. Watching the A's Rangers game the other night on mlbtv, it is obvious the A's need a 2B, as I saw Callaspo miss a very routine ground ball along with having a .220 average. I think they are a team with a lot of starting pitching depth in the minors that wouldn't mind spearing 1 or 2 to us. Those are the teams that I would aim to trade for. Maybe offer Beckham for Ynoa straight up?

[southsider2k5]

I'd have a hard time believing we could pry Walker from Seattle for anyone on our roster not named Chris or Jose. I think if they are trading him, it's for Price.

 

Like I said earlier. We have zero need to move Alexei right now. We are in a perfect position to ask for a stupid price for him, and if it isn't met, we don't deal him. We can control him for the next 2.5 years, and have only theoretical replacements for him. If we a team agrees to the stupid price, then you move him, and have something to show for it.

[ptatc]

Alexei Ramirez and Jose Quintana for Taijuan Walker, Nick Franklin, and Erasmo Ramirez.

The Sox already have a depleted pitching staff, why would you trade the #2 pitcher on the staff? The Sox will need pitching over the next couple of years.

[royoung]

The Sox already have a depleted pitching staff, why would you trade the #2 pitcher on the staff? The Sox will need pitching over the next couple of years.

 

Pitching for pitching. Walker projects to be an ace, is major league ready now. I think Walker could essential replace Q in the rotation with upside and is cheaper. But I am not the biggest Q fan on here, I know.

[southsider2k5]

Pitching for pitching. Walker projects to be an ace, is major league ready now. I think Walker could essential replace Q in the rotation with upside and is cheaper. But I am not the biggest Q fan on here, I know.

 

With Quintana's contract, there is a good chance that his replacement might not be cheaper in the long run.

[ptatc]

Pitching for pitching. Walker projects to be an ace, is major league ready now. I think Walker could essential replace Q in the rotation with upside and is cheaper. But I am not the biggest Q fan on here, I know.

True, however it's projected to be an ace with and injury history. It's taking a chance and could be worth it. I just don't think I would take that chance.

[royoung]

With Quintana's contract, there is a good chance that his replacement might not be cheaper in the long run.

 

That is a valid point. But if he gives you 3-4 years of cost savings for similar/perhaps better value and that aligns with your contention window, you do it.

[witesoxfan]

The Sox already have a depleted pitching staff, why would you trade the #2 pitcher on the staff? The Sox will need pitching over the next couple of years.

 

You are getting two pitchers in return, but I'm not entirely sold on the trade either. It's an idea.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I'd like to dump off Dunn & DeAza first, open up 2 spots, move Viciedo to DH permanently, and fill LF internally with Semien first (why not? let him get the PA) and maybe Micah Johnson later, and with RF going to Moises Sierra/Jordan Danks platoon temporarily with the idea being to acquire someone else's bust/reclamation project as part of another deal or in exchange for a much lesser player like Dunn.

 

Beckham we should sell high on, but definitely he should be gone by the deadline.

 

Dunn & DeAza, as above, whatever. Someone wants full salary relief I'd like a reasonable RP prospect or something, but we're not getting anything there.

 

Viciedo for Jacob Turner is a deal I wonder if the Sox or Marlins would turn down? Rienzo to the pen, Turner to the rotation, perfect deal, but if you don't do something like that then I think it makes more sense to keep Tank here but at DH, see if he can focus on the bat and turn things back around. Still a lot of potential with the bat but he's approaching Bacon territory and Borass as an agent makes things worse.

 

Putnam and Petricka are keepers IMO. You're not going to get enough to make the deals worthwhile.

 

Webb, probably not anyone willing to give up anything worth trading him for. Has a lot of command issues still but the ceiling is there & contenders aren't going to be interested in paying a quality price.

 

Belisario is trade bait, but no reason to take a less-than-ideal offer since we still control him.

 

Alexei is our big chip. We should start shopping him now but only for a very good package. The Cuban factor with Abreu now changes things considerably. Having Alexei here allows us to market the Cuban stuff a little harder & could make us a better destination should that Despaigne guy escape & come over to MLB. We should move him if someone gives us enough to risk not only the baseball stuff but also some of the non baseball stuff.

 

Also I like turtles and I also want to be a mod. Please make me a mod. Thank you.

[chitownsportsfan]

Trading an established 3 WAR starter that you have on a very team friendly deal for the next few years for an unproven starting pitcher prospect (with a history already of shoulder soreness) would be an awful, awful move.

 

If the M's want to throw in the kitchen sink sure do it, but Nick Franklin and Erasmo Ramirez are not nearly enough.

 

Living in Seattle I've seen the Walker hype first hand and right now the reality is he's not a good MLB starter that battled shoulder problems in spring training. His absolute best case scenario is probably a 4-5 WAR starter. His middle case is worse than Q imo. His floor is bullpen.

 

We are desperate for starting pitching the last thing we need to be doing is trading Q. If some team wants to over pay wildy sure do it. But it's not something we should be just throwing out there to see if s*** sticks.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'd like to dump off Dunn & DeAza first, open up 2 spots, move Viciedo to DH permanently

 

The problem in this scenario is that Viciedo does not hit enough to be a DH. Right now he's a 4th OF you start against LHP. That's it. That's all he probably ever will be. If anything, the path to DH is now clear for Abreu.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Hey if someone wants to do the Haren deal for Q then I do it. But no, dumping him for s*** is not a good idea. Not that all the Ms players are s*** or anything but given the amount of $$$, quality, youth, the fact that he can pitch just fine in a hitters park in the AL, etc. you ask for a ton & maybe you throw him out there as a counter to Price. But only for a major haul, and I'd rather go quantity of quality Vs. 3 players headlined by some prospect who everyone loves now but who in the end is probably way overhyped.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The problem in this scenario is that Viciedo does not hit enough to be a DH. Right now he's a 4th OF you start against LHP. That's it. That's all he probably ever will be. If anything, the path to DH is now clear for Abreu.

Viciedo has the ability to be a s*** ton more than that. Will he? Who knows, but he's still young enough to get there in theory.

 

No way do you move Abreu to DH unless you just get a f***en monster at 1B who is even better than him. Moving Abreu to DH and then bringing in Casey Krothman or some ballsucker like that is disrespectful to our superstar and probably not a good baseball move either.

[caulfield12]

The problem in this scenario is that Viciedo does not hit enough to be a DH. Right now he's a 4th OF you start against LHP. That's it. That's all he probably ever will be. If anything, the path to DH is now clear for Abreu.

 

 

If he's a 700 OPS guy (now), then you're right.

 

If he's the 775-850 OPS guy for the first two months of the season, then his bat plays.

 

With Garcia on the shelf and still with an uncertain future...and DeAza on the way out, I'm not sure we have the ability to replace two outfielders right now without either trading Alexei Ramirez or going big on the FA market.

 

Do we want to bring in someone like Colby Rasmus? Is that any more certain than Viciedo? Because guys like Melky Cabrera or Seth Smith are going to cost their production right now and you're buying high on both those guys and both are strong regression candidates for 2015.

[chitownsportsfan]

Viciedo has the ability to be a s*** ton more than that. Will he? Who knows, but he's still young enough to get there in theory.

 

No way do you move Abreu to DH unless you just get a f***en monster at 1B who is even better than him. Moving Abreu to DH and then bringing in Casey Krothman or some ballsucker like that is disrespectful to our superstar and probably not a good baseball move either.

 

It's hard to over state how much Viciedo has to contribute with his bat to be an effective starter anywhere he can play. Look at this Fangraphs page this year for example, he's -8 runs (wow) already on defense and -.2 baserunning. Oh well he hits you say -- his wRC+ is 86. More akin to a catcher or SS then a butcher in the field corner outfielder.

 

He now has over 1500 PA in MLB and his fWAR is .2 -- .2!

 

If you don't like WAR just look at his fielding percentage and triple slash line:

 

261/305/425 and a .978 fielding percentage, which doesn't even account for the dozens of balls he misplays into triples and hits that he doesn't get the error.

 

I was a huge Viciedo booster. Tragically, he's not very good I've come to realize.

[caulfield12]

It's hard to over state how much Viciedo has to contribute with his bat to be an effective starter anywhere he can play. Look at this Fangraphs page this year for example, he's -8 runs (wow) already on defense and -.2 baserunning. Oh well he hits you say -- his wRC+ is 86. More akin to a catcher or SS then a butcher in the field corner outfielder.

 

He now has over 1500 PA in MLB and his fWAR is .2 -- .2!

 

If you don't like WAR just look at his fielding percentage and triple slash line:

 

261/305/425 and a .978 fielding percentage, which doesn't even account for the dozens of balls he misplays into triples and hits that he doesn't get the error.

 

I was a huge Viciedo booster. Tragically, he's not very good I've come to realize.

 

 

If you're going to replace Viciedo, and not trade Alexei Ramirez (since we also need catching/pitching even more), then where are you going to get a 750-825 OPS LFer??...also considering the fact that Garcia might be a bust or very rusty and in need of extensive minor league time to get his timing back in 2015.

 

Does anyone really believe Semien/Micah Johnson in LF, along with Eaton's 700ish OPS...is going to be a huge improvement? I'm not saying it's impossible to replace Dayan, simply that you don't dump him until you have a much better solution than Sierra/Taylor/Danks/Tuisasopo.

Edited June 19, 2014 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

If you're going to replace Viciedo, and not trade Alexei Ramirez (since we also need catching/pitching even more), then where are you going to get a 750-825 OPS LFer??...also considering the fact that Garcia might be a bust or very rusty and in need of extensive minor league time to get his timing back in 2015.

 

Does anyone really believe Semien/Micah Johnson in LF, along with Eaton's 700ish OPS...is going to be a huge improvement? I'm not saying it's impossible to replace Dayan, simply that you don't dump him until you have a much better solution than Sierra/Taylor/Danks/Tuisasopo.

 

I agree that's as of now the Sox don't really have any better options. We had so many holes coming into this year that Hahn (imo) did a masterful job this offseason fillign as many as possible. Eaton and Abreu and Avy (in his very limited run so far in MLB) look like three legit starters and obviously Abreu looks more than that.

 

Now we just have a hole in LF, DH and C.

 

Gillaspie, Abreu, Eaton and Avy has drastically upgraded the position player talent. Good job to Hahn. Hate to say because he did a lot of good but KW's doubling down for the 3rd straight year in 2012 set this team up for disaster. Hahn has righted the ship, soon we'll be sailing again imo.

[caulfield12]

I agree that's as of now the Sox don't really have any better options. We had so many holes coming into this year that Hahn (imo) did a masterful job this offseason fillign as many as possible. Eaton and Abreu and Avy (in his very limited run so far in MLB) look like three legit starters and obviously Abreu looks more than that.

 

Now we just have a hole in LF, DH and C.

 

Gillaspie, Abreu, Eaton and Avy has drastically upgraded the position player talent. Good job to Hahn. Hate to say because he did a lot of good but KW's doubling down for the 3rd straight year in 2012 set this team up for disaster. Hahn has righted the ship, soon we'll be sailing again imo.

 

 

Agreed. But a lot hinges on Garcia...we all know that. And there's as many knowledgeable opinions on how good he will be in the future as there are believers in Marcus Semien, Gordon Beckham or Conor Gillaspie.

 

If we are approaching 2015 as close to an "all in/we're back" year from a marketing perspective, there's going to be an immediate pressure on him to produce. It's not going to be like 2006 where they can afford to carry a struggling Garcia for 2-3 months because we're already having to replace a Top 30 MLB OPS in Adam Dunn.