Baron Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:51 PM) Saltalamacchia 2014 WAR right now: 0.0 Flowers 2014 WAR right now: 1.2 You're making me argue for Tyler Flowers. How is this possible? I dont know how about you tell me? If you actually believe that then I dont know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 02:50 AM) It's almost as good as their infield is bad. Alexei makes way too much sense for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:54 PM) Alexei makes way too much sense for them Trade Alexei for what and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 That was fast 1-2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:53 PM) I dont know how about you tell me? If you actually believe that then I dont know what to tell you. I'm telling you that Flowers has been better than the player you wanted to sign for a bunch of money. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01.shtml 2013 was Saltalamacchia's highest WAR season at 2.9. I just don't see the value in essentially buying high here. I also think it's silly to assume that in 3 years this team will have developed a catcher, because I don't see it in this org as we speak. So why pay for a guy on the wrong side of 30 when it's not guaranteed his replacement is there in 3 years as you argue. Take the savings you're getting (from a guy playing better according to WAR) and use those dollars elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:56 PM) Trade Alexei for what and why? Trade Alexei for their entire outfield because ours isn't as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 07:54 PM) Alexei makes way too much sense for them Well, obviously they're willing to sell on Tabata now (of course, he looks a lot more like Sierra/Viciedo than the other 3 Pirates' OFers). A couple of seasons ago, before he broke out, we were all over picking up Alvarez on the cheap...we're not going to get anything off their major league roster, so has to be for prospects. (So who are their Eaton/Davidson AA/AAA equivalents that they would be open to dealing?) Hahn has a really difficult decision to hold Ramirez/Beckham together for next year or totally audition replacements in the middle of the diamond...which pushes contending back until 2016 at least if Alexei's gone. As it is, for all the talk two nights ago about Detroit and the WC position, we're also going to be tied with the Indians for last place in the AL Central. Edited June 14, 2014 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 02:56 AM) Trade Alexei for what and why? Matters what they think of Semien at SS, but if this team falls back by the deadline, he is far and away their best trade chip. If you can get someone like Glasnow and more, you have to consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Joe Nathan sucked again tonight he has just lost it this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:58 PM) I'm telling you that Flowers has been better than the player you wanted to sign for a bunch of money. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01.shtml 2013 was Saltalamacchia's highest WAR season at 2.9. I just don't see the value in essentially buying high here. I also think it's silly to assume that in 3 years this team will have developed a catcher, because I don't see it in this org as we speak. So why pay for a guy on the wrong side of 30 when it's not guaranteed his replacement is there in 3 years as you argue. Take the savings you're getting (from a guy playing better according to WAR) and use those dollars elsewhere? When did I guarantee a replacement? Boy you like putting words in my mouth dont you? I said its time to find one. That's the one thing your getting is time. Right now you have no replacement and no time. Flower's is on a 1 year contract and you have absolutely no depth. The free agent market looks horrible for this position. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 07:58 PM) Trade Alexei for their entire outfield because ours isn't as good. You might as well ask for the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:59 PM) Joe Nathan sucked again tonight he has just lost it this year. That's too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 07:59 PM) Joe Nathan sucked again tonight he has just lost it this year. Can't believe Ausmus used him in a non-save situation. So he had a really bad inning there and just got out of it with one run surrendered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) You might as well ask for the moon. We might as well keep Alexei. He is our best player and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:59 PM) Matters what they think of Semien at SS, but if this team falls back by the deadline, he is far and away their best trade chip. If you can get someone like Glasnow and more, you have to consider it. Only problem with that is it may push your clock back. Glasnow is in high A right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:03 PM) Can't believe Ausmus used him in a non-save situation. So he had a really bad inning there and just got out of it with one run surrendered? Coke came in and saved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 08:01 PM) When did I guarantee a replacement? Boy you like putting words in my mouth dont you? I said its time to find one. That's the one thing your getting is time. Right now you have no replacement and no time. Flower's is on a 1 year contract and you have absolutely no depth. The free agent market looks horrible for this position. Now what? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true Lucroy's the only catcher with a 3+ WAR. Of that list, Ruiz from the Phillies is the only one who was available...and maybe Jason Castro, who's sporting a 660 OPS at the moment. Unless the Twins are going to offer you a Mauer (willing to return to catcher) and eat 65% of his salary, which won't happen obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 fWAR is better than bWAR and has Salty at 1 WAR versus Flowers's 0.8. (just pointing it out, I wouldn't have signed Salty either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) When did I guarantee a replacement? Boy you like putting words in my mouth dont you? I said its time to find one. That's the one thing your getting is time. Right now you have no replacement and no time. Flower's is on a 1 year contract and you have absolutely no depth. The free agent market looks horrible for this position. Now what? Flowers + scrambling for another catcher or Salty +3 years of time to find one that you dont have is alot smarter. Flowers is arg eligible in 2015. Not an FA until 2018. Apparently one cannot find catching depth while having Flowers on the roster. Very few teams have catching depth. Catching has been down around the league for quite sometime. Maybe I'm not being clear. I'm not a believer in Saltalamacchia or signing guys to any kind of long term deal who are 29 coming off their career year. I fail to see how Hahn was wrong here. Flowers have been the better player in 2014 and still is under team control for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) I think the only way they trade Ramirez would be a worst-case scenario where Rodon doesn't sign, and then you trade Beckham as well and the contention window is 100% pushed back to 2016-2018. Still believe Hahn intends to be close to "all in" heading into next season. The other catchers doing pretty well right now are Mesoraco, Norris/Jaso, Russell Martin and Iannetta. Edited June 14, 2014 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Where did that hit him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:07 PM) fWAR is better than bWAR and has Salty at 1 WAR versus Flowers's 0.8. (just pointing it out, I wouldn't have signed Salty either) Fair enough. I use bWAR because I find their site easier to navigate. I thought both agreed to standardize the WAR stat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Viciedo not even close. Thankfully he will face a LHP tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:10 PM) Fair enough. I use bWAR because I find their site easier to navigate. I thought both agreed to standardize the WAR stat? Standardised replacement level, not wins above replacement level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 13, 2014 -> 09:07 PM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true Lucroy's the only catcher with a 3+ WAR. Of that list, Ruiz from the Phillies is the only one who was available...and maybe Jason Castro, who's sporting a 660 OPS at the moment. Unless the Twins are going to offer you a Mauer (willing to return to catcher) and eat 65% of his salary, which won't happen obviously. Mauer has not played catcher 1 game this year, his is done at catcher. Edited June 14, 2014 by Soxfest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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