Buehrle>Wood Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) Thoughts? Even when he started great, I never bought in to it. I think we all knew/know what he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Yeah I think we all knew this was coming. You can't BABIP .750 very long. 38% K rate. Woof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) He can never say he wasn't given a shot. At one time a top 60 prospect. He was a HR and on base machine for most of his minor league career. His k rate was not too bad in the minors either, but he is overmatched in the major leagues. You look at some of the swings he takes and some of the pitches he offers at, you wonder how far out of the zone pitches had to be for him to walk almost 100 times in a minor league season. Edited June 14, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) Yeah I think we all knew this was coming. You can't BABIP .750 very long. 38% K rate. Woof. The sick thing is his BABIP hasn't gone down very much in the last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) The sick thing is his BABIP hasn't gone down very much in the last week. Ha, cause he hasn't put anything in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor Ding-Dong Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Might as well start playing Nieto a bit more to see what he's got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 05:47 PM) Might as well start playing Nieto a bit more to see what he's got. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian310 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I completely agree with Nieto being given a shot to start. That way we can at least figure out what we have at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 05:55 PM) I completely agree with Nieto being given a shot to start. That way we can at least figure out what we have at the end of the season. It is time to try Nieto everyone knows what Sox have in Flowers and it is not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Nieto's k rate is actually quite similar to Tyler's. Chances are more exposure will lead to some really poor results. The kid is a special circumstance in over his head. There is zero reason to throw more on his plate unless you are trying to make him fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) Nieto's k rate is actually quite similar to Tyler's. Chances are more exposure will lead to some really poor results. The kid is a special circumstance in over his head. There is zero reason to throw more on his plate unless you are trying to make him fail. Flowers has been over his head 90% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 06:01 PM) Flowers has been over his head 90% of the time. Yeas, but he is most likely at the end of his White Sox days. If you want Nieto to be anything, IMO , throwing him to the wolves now would be a huge mistake. If anything, bring back Phegley and watch him drop pitches right down the middle. Maybe if they are out of it in September, let Nieto catch every day. Edited June 14, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I wanted believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) Thoughts? Don't catchers usually sit in day games after night games? Nieto's appeared at least passable this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 06:13 PM) I wanted believe You wanted to believe in the impossible, which is keeping a .600 BABIP over the course of 162 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 03:18 PM) Thoughts? He sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) The sick thing is his BABIP hasn't gone down very much in the last week. Yeah, crazy to look at his line and think his BABIP is still over 400 for the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Getting a legit starting catcher is probably our #1 offseason priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 A lot of you deserve credit. I remember when he was over .300 for so long a lot of you insisted his peripheral stats sucked and he'd be dropping soon. I recall being hopeful that under our new hitting coach he now was a big leaguer for the next 10 seasons. Shows a lot of you are very smart regarding peripheral stats. I was fooled again. I thought Tyler had figured it out. He is one of the worst hitters right now I've ever seen. He is absolutely pathetic and should be sent down if he has any options left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor Ding-Dong Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) Nieto's k rate is actually quite similar to Tyler's. Chances are more exposure will lead to some really poor results. The kid is a special circumstance in over his head. There is zero reason to throw more on his plate unless you are trying to make him fail. For Nieto to develop he needs to be playing on a consistent basis. Given his situation as a Rule V pick, it has to be at the major league level as we don't have the luxury of sending him down to get more time ala Semien. Coming into the season it was safe to assume he was ticketed for some serious bench warming, but now that Flowers has proven once and for all that he's a turd, there's no reason to play him once a week anymore. I'm not saying he should be our everyday catcher, but he should be more than Danks' caddy at this point. It'd be great if we could get rid of Flowers all together and let Nieto split time with Phegley, Gonzalez, or anyone else who's name is not Tyler Flowers. Poor results out of Nieto is to be expected in his first season above A ball. That doesn't mean he can't develop and learn from the experience. I don't buy the argument that playing young/inexperienced players will automatically ruin them. Playing will certainly do more for him than wasting away on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor Ding-Dong Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 09:53 PM) When he was hitting .379 I set the ASB over/under on his batting average at .252, it seems like he'll drop way below that. I really think the org loves him though, wouldn't be surprised if he's the back up next year. The dude's been given chance after chance after chance and every time he fails to produce. I agree, I would not be surprised at all if he returned next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) Yeah, crazy to look at his line and think his BABIP is still over 400 for the year So it's only gonna get worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 10:13 PM) So it's only gonna get worse? BABIP typically normalizes somewhere around .300. It's not unheard of, on the extreme end, for guys to get full seasons at +/- about 100 points on that, but usually when they're really high it's because they're absolutely raking and when they're really low it's because they are popping it up a lot. Ground ball hitters will have slightly higher BABIPs because grounders turn into hits more often than fly balls. Beyond those factors, the rest is what is referred to as "luck" -- are the balls a guy hits "finding holes" more or less frequently than average? Looking at Flowers' batted ball data, three things stick out: (1) crazy high LD rate (25% vs. career 18%), (2) crazy low FB rate (19% vs. career 35%), and (3) crazy high GB rate (55% vs. career 45%). By itself, this is good. Basically a lot of his fly balls have been line drives instead this year. The problem is that LD% tends to be the least stable of those numbers, meaning that when it's high it is typically part of an unsustainable hot streak. So that LD rate will most likely go down, and his BABIP down with it since those liners will more likely become fly balls than more grounders. If he keeps hitting a ton of grounders too, he'll probably still have a BABIP north of .300, but since he isn't the "speedy infield hit" type, it probably won't be a ton higher. If you think that he has figured something major out and the line drives are sustainable, then you could make an argument that his BABIP could stay elevated, somewhere in the .350-.400 range. The major issue with that, of course, is that it's already in the .400 range and he still isn't very good. So yeah, it'll probably get worse, assuming he continues to be the hitter that he has been this year. Edited June 15, 2014 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 14, 2014 -> 09:53 PM) When he was hitting .379 I set the ASB over/under on his batting average at .252, it seems like he'll drop way below that. I really think the org loves him though, wouldn't be surprised if he's the back up next year. yea, my nephew is the bat boy, says hes probably the hardest working player on the team, does tons of hitting in the cage and great guy. hes awful though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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