2014-2015 NBA thread

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

This just goes back to holding professional athletes to some higher, near-impossible standard. And then people can complain when he doesn't reach that standard. Or complain when he's not open/honest enough. Seriously, the kid can't win.

There are some things that shouldn't be said. If he has these feelings, they should be kept to himself. He's playing basketball, not football. This isn't a contact-based sport like football where concussions, spinal cord injuries, etc. are prevalent. Not to downplay a knee injury, but what's the worst that can happen? He tears his ACL again and requires surgery or needs a knee replacement later in life? Even if that happens, he will be able to walk again in 15 years. Yes he might be sore, but show me one person at the age of 40+ that isn't sore or aching in some way. I'm talking about the average human being, not just pro athletes. His statement comes off as extremely selfish. It's all about him. Fans don't want to hear that "honesty." He should have said I'm thinking about this long-term, playoffs, coming years as a Bull, etc. and this whole thing wouldn't be a big deal. But when you say you are taking nights off from your job because you are worried about your health post-retirement, well that's a problem. You are getting paid good money to play. If you are healthy enough to play, you play. No athlete is ever 100% healthy in season. There is always some type of ailment. I fear he has gotten to the point where he is unwilling to play through an injury in fear of getting hurt. This is exactly what happened last year in the playoffs when he was cleared to play and decided not to anyway. This rubs so many people wrong on so many different levels. IMO, athletes have too much power in all of the major sports, particularly in NBA, MLB, and NHL due to guaranteed contracts. They can literally hold franchises hostage if they want to.

[Jenksismyhero]

Again, it's not in defense of him. It's that i'm annoyed by the illogical, and quite frankly stupid, response by media/fans when it comes to this stuff. Who honestly gives a s***? Does anyone REALLY believe that Rose doesn't give maximum effort when he's healthy and when the games are actually important?

 

We seriously just went through 2 years of b****ing about Thibs overplaying guys and Rose being put in a position to get hurt again when it didn't matter. "Why is he out there? Why is he playing if he's not 100%??" And then here he is taking time off so as not to needlessly aggravate/worsen an injury during a weak part of the schedule and people are b****ing about it! This is exactly what most of us wanted! It's moronic.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

To some extent, he is paid to put up with that stuff. That is why the guy is making $95 million over the course of the contract. There is a bigger burden put on to your star players. No one made him sign the contract.

^This. No sympathy here whatsoever

[Dick Allen]

Of course, when the problem isn't what was actually said, but the "optics" of what was said, you know it's a real hard-hitting issue.

I think the problem is what was actually said. He said he doesn't want to be sore at his son's graduation or at meetings post retirement, so he will take a game off here and there. I am speculating he is using that as an example because someone told him he has to lighten it up a bit or he may get injured again and be limited physically the rest of his life.

 

The Rose camp is a problem. They feed Derrick things to say and after it gets filtered through his brain, something that a lot of people would be puzzled by, is said. If he is so concerned about being "sore" (his words) at his son's graduation, why doesn't he just retire now? Why risk it at all. The will he or won't he comeback a couple of years ago was also a Reggie Rose production. Apparently, the Bulls wanted to issue a press release that he was out for the season (which he ultimately was), but Reggie wanted to keep the speculation alive. It ultimately made his meal ticket look bad.

 

I actually should be fair to Reggie. While he is a problem, it does seem he has been a really good brother. Ultimately Derrick deserves all the credit for his success, but Reggie deserves a lot of credit for keeping him in a position to do so.

[Jenksismyhero]

There are some things that shouldn't be said. If he has these feelings, they should be kept to himself. He's playing basketball, not football. This isn't a contact-based sport like football where concussions, spinal cord injuries, etc. are prevalent. Not to downplay a knee injury, but what's the worst that can happen? He tears his ACL again and requires surgery or needs a knee replacement later in life? Even if that happens, he will be able to walk again in 15 years. Yes he might be sore, but show me one person at the age of 40+ that isn't sore or aching in some way. I'm talking about the average human being, not just pro athletes. His statement comes off as extremely selfish. It's all about him. Fans don't want to hear that "honesty." He should have said I'm thinking about this long-term, playoffs, coming years as a Bull, etc. and this whole thing wouldn't be a big deal. But when you say you are taking nights off from your job because you are worried about your health post-retirement, well that's a problem. You are getting paid good money to play. If you are healthy enough to play, you play. No athlete is ever 100% healthy in season. There is always some type of ailment. I fear he has gotten to the point where he is unwilling to play through an injury in fear of getting hurt. This is exactly what happened last year in the playoffs when he was cleared to play and decided not to anyway. This rubs so many people wrong on so many different levels. IMO, athletes have too much power in all of the major sports, particularly in NBA, MLB, and NHL due to guaranteed contracts. They can literally hold franchises hostage if they want to.

 

Based on being held out (supposedly not his choice) for rolling two ankles, one of which we all saw on national TV? When else has he refused to play because of some small, but nagging injury?

 

This dumb narrative that he doesn't play through pain/injury came out of nowhere. It's not based on any fact. He's injury prone. That's a fact. He's not a whimp who refuses to play through injuries. That's not a fact.

 

And again, this is the cautious approach we and the media ALL WANTED the last 2 years. And yet here we are saying how terrible it is.

[shysocks]

We seriously just went through 2 years of b****ing about Thibs overplaying guys and Rose being put in a position to get hurt again when it didn't matter. "Why is he out there? Why is he playing if he's not 100%??" And then here he is taking time off so as not to needlessly aggravate/worsen an injury during a weak part of the schedule and people are b****ing about it! This is exactly what most of us wanted! It's moronic.

Bingo. Perfectly said.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Based on being held out (supposedly not his choice) for rolling two ankles, one of which we all saw on national TV? When else has he refused to play because of some small, but nagging injury?

 

This dumb narrative that he doesn't play through pain/injury came out of nowhere. It's not based on any fact. He's injury prone. That's a fact. He's not a whimp who refuses to play through injuries. That's not a fact.

 

And again, this is the cautious approach we and the media ALL WANTED the last 2 years. And yet here we are saying how terrible it is.

This isn't something new. This didn't come out of nowhere. Why didn't he play last year in the playoffs after being medically cleared?

[Jenksismyhero]

This isn't something new. This didn't come out of nowhere. Why didn't he play last year in the playoffs after being medically cleared?

 

Because as has been shown twice now, when you come back from knee surgeries and play, you can't just magically be All-NBA/MVP caliber from the start? You really want his first game action to be playoff basketball?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

How can someone defend a quote like this?

 

"When I sit out it's not because of this year. I'm thinking about long term. I'm thinking about after I'm done with basketball."

 

He didn't say he's sitting out because he has a sprained ankle and wants to get healthy for the rest of the season/playoffs. He wants to get healthy for when he's done with basketball. LOL. Or this...

 

"Having graduations to go to, having meetings to go to, I don't want to be in my meetings all sore."

 

What?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Because as has been shown twice now, when you come back from knee surgeries and play, you can't just magically be All-NBA/MVP caliber from the start? You really want his first game action to be playoff basketball?

If he was healthy, which by all accounts he was, then yes

[Jenksismyhero]

How can someone defend a quote like this?

 

"When I sit out it's not because of this year. I'm thinking about long term. I'm thinking about after I'm done with basketball."

 

He didn't say he's sitting out because he has a sprained ankle and wants to get healthy for the rest of the season/playoffs. He wants to get healthy for when he's done with basketball. LOL. Or this...

 

"Having graduations to go to, having meetings to go to, I don't want to be in my meetings all sore."

 

What?

 

My God, the kid gained some perspective on his life. Again, the horror....

 

 

[bmags]

I think the problem is what was actually said. He said he doesn't want to be sore at his son's graduation or at meetings post retirement, so he will take a game off here and there. I am speculating he is using that as an example because someone told him he has to lighten it up a bit or he may get injured again and be limited physically the rest of his life.

 

The Rose camp is a problem. They feed Derrick things to say and after it gets filtered through his brain, something that a lot of people would be puzzled by, is said. If he is so concerned about being "sore" (his words) at his son's graduation, why doesn't he just retire now? Why risk it at all. The will he or won't he comeback a couple of years ago was also a Reggie Rose production. Apparently, the Bulls wanted to issue a press release that he was out for the season (which he ultimately was), but Reggie wanted to keep the speculation alive. It ultimately made his meal ticket look bad.

 

I actually should be fair to Reggie. While he is a problem, it does seem he has been a really good brother. Ultimately Derrick deserves all the credit for his success, but Reggie deserves a lot of credit for keeping him in a position to do so.

 

I think all of this is true, I also don't think any of it is a problem or something fans need to get into meathead mode about.

 

Addressing a separate poster:

 

And to the part about athletes having too much control. LOL. That is the most backward logic I've ever heard. Owners get upset about high salaries, owners put arbitrary cap in place, owners still want to win, owners stupidly spend too much on a player, player gets injured, player should apologize for "holding team hostage".

Edited November 12, 2014 by bmags

[Jenksismyhero]

If he was healthy, which by all accounts he was, then yes

 

And that's a moronic, short-term outlook on the situation. Frankly, i'm not even sure the Bulls wanted him back. He wasn't going to help them beat the Heat and you're risking him getting hurt again. Can you imagine the uproar if he was hurt by being rushed back too quickly? Oh wait, no, i'm sure fans would be happy because he "gave it is all" and "put the team and franchise before his personal health and future" right? His career ending by a dumb move like that surely would be forgiven because what grit that guy showed!

[Balta1701]

And that's a moronic, short-term outlook on the situation. Frankly, i'm not even sure the Bulls wanted him back. He wasn't going to help them beat the Heat and you're risking him getting hurt again. Can you imagine the uproar if he was hurt by being rushed back too quickly? Oh wait, no, i'm sure fans would be happy because he "gave it is all" and "put the team and franchise before his personal health and future" right? His career ending by a dumb move like that surely would be forgiven because what grit that guy showed!

The time I wanted him back was in 2013 when he was practicing in January and I expected him back by the AS Break. That would have been enough time to get back in game shape before the playoffs on a team that could have challenged the eventual champs.

 

2014, he wasn't there until late in the season and yeah, you can't work him back in that way (although it would have been really, really nice to have an extra PG on the roster when Hinrich was playing 48 mpg)

[clyons]

My God, the kid gained some perspective on his life. Again, the horror....

 

I understand what you've been saying in your previous posts, but this seems like a really big reach.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

And that's a moronic, short-term outlook on the situation. Frankly, i'm not even sure the Bulls wanted him back. He wasn't going to help them beat the Heat and you're risking him getting hurt again. Can you imagine the uproar if he was hurt by being rushed back too quickly? Oh wait, no, i'm sure fans would be happy because he "gave it is all" and "put the team and franchise before his personal health and future" right? His career ending by a dumb move like that surely would be forgiven because what grit that guy showed!

haha ok. Again, by all accounts he was healthy. How was he at a greater risk of getting hurt by playing last spring then he was last summer playing for Team USA? He was training, conditioning, practicing for the better part of the winter and you are telling me he was rushed back too quickly? What's your basis for that statement?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I think all of this is true, I also don't think any of it is a problem or something fans need to get into meathead mode about.

 

Addressing a separate poster:

 

And to the part about athletes having too much control. LOL. That is the most backward logic I've ever heard. Owners get upset about high salaries, owners put arbitrary cap in place, owners still want to win, owners stupidly spend too much on a player, player gets injured, player should apologize for "holding team hostage".

he's getting paid to play. when a player can dictate when he plays and doesn't play and still gets paid without repercussions, then yes that is holding the team hostage.

[Balta1701]

haha ok. Again, by all accounts he was healthy. How was he at a greater risk of getting hurt by playing last spring then he was last summer playing for Team USA? He was training, conditioning, practicing for the better part of the winter and you are telling me he was rushed back too quickly? What's your basis for that statement?

Last spring he was just off the meniscus surgery and I don't think he was practicing during the winter, he was only just barely getting back as the playoff started.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Last spring he was just off the meniscus surgery and I don't think he was practicing during the winter, he was only just barely getting back as the playoff started.

you're right. I'm confusing 2014 with 2013. same difference, just change the year and point still valid

[Jenksismyhero]

I understand what you've been saying in your previous posts, but this seems like a really big reach.

 

I don't see why. The guy just went through two serious injuries that took him off the court for two seasons. He had a kid in that time frame. I guess i'm assuming this, but you have to think that's going to put your basketball life into perspective. Another serious knee injury and he's not getting a contract with the Bulls, or if it is one, it's going to be for a back-up role.

 

The fact that he's thinking about his future, to me, means he's put things in perspective. He's not an invincible 20 year old anymore. He - gasp! - might change his game a little to ensure he's got a decent future. Again, isn't this something we all kind of want? That he's not so reckless when he plays? That he maybe avoids a little more contact than he used to? That he not play when it's not really necessary to do so?

[Jenksismyhero]

haha ok. Again, by all accounts he was healthy. How was he at a greater risk of getting hurt by playing last spring then he was last summer playing for Team USA? He was training, conditioning, practicing for the better part of the winter and you are telling me he was rushed back too quickly? What's your basis for that statement?

 

Healthy =/= ready to play in the NBA at his normal level.

 

Yes, maybe he should have tried to come back in 2013. But I really doubt the Bulls were pushing him. He was what, 23 when that happened? With his career ahead of him? That's not an easy decision to make from either side.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I don't see why. The guy just went through two serious injuries that took him off the court for two seasons. He had a kid in that time frame. I guess i'm assuming this, but you have to think that's going to put your basketball life into perspective. Another serious knee injury and he's not getting a contract with the Bulls, or if it is one, it's going to be for a back-up role.

 

The fact that he's thinking about his future, to me, means he's put things in perspective. He's not an invincible 20 year old anymore. He - gasp! - might change his game a little to ensure he's got a decent future. Again, isn't this something we all kind of want? That he's not so reckless when he plays? That he maybe avoids a little more contact than he used to? That he not play when it's not really necessary to do so?

that's all great, but that's not what he said

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Healthy =/= ready to play in the NBA at his normal level.

 

Yes, maybe he should have tried to come back in 2013. But I really doubt the Bulls were pushing him. He was what, 23 when that happened? With his career ahead of him? That's not an easy decision to make from either side.

If the Bulls weren't pushing him and didn't want him to play, then shame on the Bulls. But I seriously doubt they didn't want him playing.

[Balta1701]

Healthy =/= ready to play in the NBA at his normal level.

 

Yes, maybe he should have tried to come back in 2013. But I really doubt the Bulls were pushing him. He was what, 23 when that happened? With his career ahead of him? That's not an easy decision to make from either side.

By the accounts at the time, the only way he was going to get comfortable playing in games was to play in games, once it had healed the risk of having the same injury again were no more than they were on the day he originally hurt it. So with that one, the fact that he didn't come back really was frustrating.

 

The other thing to remember is that he potentially gave away a chance at getting his first ring by not coming back. That team in 2013 could have had a shot in the playoffs with the full Butler/Rose/Noah/Deng/BoozerGibson lineup, the thing missing was Rose.

[clyons]

I don't see why. The guy just went through two serious injuries that took him off the court for two seasons. He had a kid in that time frame. I guess i'm assuming this, but you have to think that's going to put your basketball life into perspective. Another serious knee injury and he's not getting a contract with the Bulls, or if it is one, it's going to be for a back-up role.

 

The fact that he's thinking about his future, to me, means he's put things in perspective. He's not an invincible 20 year old anymore. He - gasp! - might change his game a little to ensure he's got a decent future. Again, isn't this something we all kind of want? That he's not so reckless when he plays? That he maybe avoids a little more contact than he used to? That he not play when it's not really necessary to do so?

 

It's a reach because you're taking issue with those citing the quote as proof of his stupidity, yet citing it as proof of him having some kind of enlightenment. As you say, they both involve assumptions. To me, given his history of less than stellar PR moves, the former assumption just seems a bit more likely.