Chisoxfn Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:32 AM) Can I say that Thibs isn't really having a great year? I know they have had injuries, but how many games have we given away to sub .500 teams this year? I wouldn't be as upset about it, but we are still beating really good teams meaning they can play like that on every night... but aren't. So what is the deal? How much of that is because the players think that they don't have to play hard, an idea that has been drilled into them because of management stepping into the territory and pushing an agenda? All that said, I think someone said that Nick Friedell indicated the players were on the side of management. Jimmy Butler, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah all saw their careers soar to new levels with Thibbs. I can't buy for one minute that they would be on the side of management in these situations. These guys love Thibbs. I also kind of think Rose does, although I could see him also siding with management. Gasol probably would side with management. Bottom line, given the players who would side with Thibbs, I think at a minimum you are talking a split and as long as Thibbs has Noah / Taj / Butler on his side that should help (and really no reason Rose shouldn't be at least comfortable with him). I think it is more the whispers that drove the wedge early and the team is slowly realizing Thibbs is right. This is part of why I'd like Deng back. He'd add another extremely calming force to the lockeroom who would back Thibbs and shut things up. Worst thing in all of this is, if it is so bad, the GM needs to fix things because it is clearly impacting the team and the success. End of the day, winning is most important and Gar has his ego in the way. Its his ego that started this whole thing. Thibbs just wants to coach so of all coaches, he's probably the one guy that can grind through something like this, but it is still pure crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I try not to make whether the players are motivated against bad teams a top criteria for evaluating a coach. There's only so much the guy can do and he might sacrifice whatever other positive influence he can have by going too hard after the small stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 01:10 PM) I try not to make whether the players are motivated against bad teams a top criteria for evaluating a coach. There's only so much the guy can do and he might sacrifice whatever other positive influence he can have by going too hard after the small stuff Having been around a lot of basketball teams over a lot of years, this usually tells me if a team is coach motivated or not. If they only get it up for big games, it is a big red flag for me. It usually means they are tuning out the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:58 PM) How much of that is because the players think that they don't have to play hard, an idea that has been drilled into them because of management stepping into the territory and pushing an agenda? All that said, I think someone said that Nick Friedell indicated the players were on the side of management. Jimmy Butler, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah all saw their careers soar to new levels with Thibbs. I can't buy for one minute that they would be on the side of management in these situations. These guys love Thibbs. I also kind of think Rose does, although I could see him also siding with management. Gasol probably would side with management. Bottom line, given the players who would side with Thibbs, I think at a minimum you are talking a split and as long as Thibbs has Noah / Taj / Butler on his side that should help (and really no reason Rose shouldn't be at least comfortable with him). I think it is more the whispers that drove the wedge early and the team is slowly realizing Thibbs is right. This is part of why I'd like Deng back. He'd add another extremely calming force to the lockeroom who would back Thibbs and shut things up. Worst thing in all of this is, if it is so bad, the GM needs to fix things because it is clearly impacting the team and the success. End of the day, winning is most important and Gar has his ego in the way. Its his ego that started this whole thing. Thibbs just wants to coach so of all coaches, he's probably the one guy that can grind through something like this, but it is still pure crap. Rose's trainer (now the Bulls trainer) seems to be working with management and pushing the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 11:40 AM) Having been around a lot of basketball teams over a lot of years, this usually tells me if a team is coach motivated or not. If they only get it up for big games, it is a big red flag for me. It usually means they are tuning out the coach. The wild card is here is would appear management is telling the players to tune out the coach vs. the players independently tuning out the coach. That is my problem in all of this. It is the front office, who I largely respect, taking too much of an ownership in the coaching, all while we have one of the best and most respected coaches in the league. Its disgraceful. It is the type of thing where you need JR to put everyone in a room and tell them to STFU. I would hope JR has learned from the Krause / PJax fiasco and really, Reinsdorf (maybe Paxson...depending on his overall feelings and how much he sides with Gar..presumably he does given their relationship) is the one guy who could make it all better and quick. After the STFU, Paxson and Gar should make a statement that he thinks Thibbs is doing a fantastic job and he has our full support. Right now, Gar just gives luke warm responses and does not say Thibbs is doing a really good job or anything like that. Rumors can hurt and sometimes you need to make those statements...even if the reality is the situation is still icy..let the disagreements reside in-house, don't let this get hashed out in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) The wild card is here is would appear management is telling the players to tune out the coach vs. the players independently tuning out the coach. That is my problem in all of this. It is the front office, who I largely respect, taking too much of an ownership in the coaching, all while we have one of the best and most respected coaches in the league. Its disgraceful. It is the type of thing where you need JR to put everyone in a room and tell them to STFU. I would hope JR has learned from the Krause / PJax fiasco and really, Reinsdorf (maybe Paxson...depending on his overall feelings and how much he sides with Gar..presumably he does given their relationship) is the one guy who could make it all better and quick. After the STFU, Paxson and Gar should make a statement that he thinks Thibbs is doing a fantastic job and he has our full support. Right now, Gar just gives luke warm responses and does not say Thibbs is doing a really good job or anything like that. Rumors can hurt and sometimes you need to make those statements...even if the reality is the situation is still icy..let the disagreements reside in-house, don't let this get hashed out in the media. I agree. A big problem is the players see what is going on, know Thibs is becoming lame duck, and it begins to snowball. And I don't even know if it really is tuning him out that is happening. Rose and Noah had been on minutes restrictions. Just about everyone else has been banged up and missed time. I saw a graphic the other day than Noah and Rose have only both been in the line up 33% of the time the last fews years, and at full strength, probably not at least half of that. Gar Forman bothers me for some reason. Maybe it is because he was a Tim Floyd assistant at ISU. I think he got into a lot of trouble when he was coaching in college. I think Thibs is great. People complain all the time about his minutes. Look at the minutes Phil Jackson used to play Pip and MJ, and Rodman and Grant. He rode them hard. No one moaned. Edited January 30, 2015 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) I love it. It isnt often that athletes can get back at reporters like that The "reporter"'s response was he cant be held accountable for something he said that long ago. Makes sense when you consider the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:29 PM) I agree. A big problem is the players see what is going on, know Thibs is becoming lame duck, and it begins to snowball. And I don't even know if it really is tuning him out that is happening. Rose and Noah had been on minutes restrictions. Just about everyone else has been banged up and missed time. I saw a graphic the other day than Noah and Rose have only both been in the line up 33% of the time the last fews years, and at full strength, probably not at least half of that. Gar Forman bothers me for some reason. Maybe it is because he was a Tim Floyd assistant at ISU. I think he got into a lot of trouble when he was coaching in college. I think Thibs is great. People complain all the time about his minutes. Look at the minutes Phil Jackson used to play Pip and MJ, and Rodman and Grant. He rode them hard. No one moaned. Completely agree with everything you said and I do think the injuries are a factor that hasn't been counted on. Yes, the Bulls had injuries the past couple of years and still got by with Thibbs (albeit, we have a much better winning percentage this year than those years). I think the injury factor that hasn't been considered has really been the fact that this year, more than other years, we've had a lot more consistent in's / out's due to injuries (vs. the more extended injuries) and that has meant a lot less time for the players to actually gel with each other. We've seen Rose and Butler struggle to play with each other just like we have seen similar struggles with Noah / Gasol and I think this is largely driven by the general lack of consistent minutes these guys have had. Ultimately the energy is concerning but I think the injuries and how the injuries have occurred have really played a more significant factor and resulted in some periods of "ugly" flow both on the offensive and defensive side and it almost snowballs from there so to speak (you play good on offense, you get some easy buckets, other team doesn't get transition buckets, you are in a better half court set...benefit...on flip side, better defense you play, more transition buckets you get on the other side which again benefits your defense). I also think that while Pax can be hard headed, he is generally a very good guy and probably more willing to look past things. Gar is clearly smart (and our front office has clearly made a lot of wise basketball decisions...including hiring Thibbs in the first place) but I just don't think Gar gets the interpersonal stuff which is critical. I've long thought Thibbs really got it and he is so good in how he handles the media (you'll never see him directly call anyone out but he will consistently push his message but he also gives players a ton of credit where due, etc). Really Thibbs is one of my favorite coaches in all sports. I just love his overall attitude, etc. And I think the minutes stuff gets so overblown by people who never play the sport and look into too much. Do minutes matter, sure, but you can play more and than less at different points depending on where we are in the game, etc. And the good players tend to play a lot of minutes. Whether the Bulls teams, or Lebron's minutes or even Duncan for a good part of his career (maybe not now but for a long time he did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Here is what I said about Thibs almost 3 years ago to the day: (February 2, 2012) I like Thibs, but I sometimes wonder if hes more Doug Collins than Phil Jackson. --- I was making a generality about task master coaches and whether they are the ones who can ultimately bring a team to the promise land, thus the Collins/Jackson comparison, as compared to Skiles who never took his team to the ECF (which Thibs and Collins did). Thus the comparison of 2 coaches who went to the ECF. --- Doug Collins may have won 1, but I dont know if he would have won 6. Thats the point, task master coaches wear on guys and while they often can get more out of less to begin with, they can also eventually wear on people and that sometimes results in getting less out of more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxsoxsoxsox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Dunleavy still out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I've seen enough. The Hawks are for real. Top 5 in offensive and defensive efficiency. BY far the highest SRS (point differential+strength of schedule) in the east. 18 in a row. As of right now. The top 4 in the east are Atlanta, Cleveland, Washington, Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Golden State is getting curb stomped by the f***ing Jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Rose should have shot at least four free throws by now. I think the Refs are too busy cringing in anticipation of a knee injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Do Bulls have anyone that can stop penetration? Play off ball handler a bit if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 That has to be up there for worst quarter of ft shooting in team history. Also, it's amazing how slow the Bulls continue to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 FYI, Boers and Bernstein were saying today that they heard Greg McDermott is pissed with how Bulls are handling Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxsoxsoxsox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 bench is getting killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Kirk Hinrich blows. Anyone who thinks that guy can still play basketball is a f***ing moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This team is harder to like than previous Bulls teams. Is Derrick even an above average pg right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They look beat down and tired. No one looks like they're having fun either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 31, 2015 -> 04:29 AM) They look beat down and tired. No one looks like they're having fun either. Not getting back in transition at all. This team need some type of spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) This team is harder to like than previous Bulls teams. Is Derrick even an above average pg right now? His PER and TS% is right in line with Michael Jordan. The Wizards version. He's been painfully inefficient. Let's not even get into his defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Is it just me or has Rose forgotten his mid range jumper? Felt like he's rarely miss those a few years ago now I hardly remember him taking any these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 31, 2015 -> 06:05 AM) Is it just me or has Rose forgotten his mid range jumper? Felt like he's rarely miss those a few years ago now I hardly remember him taking any these days. He dropped a few in the fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 09:13 PM) The wild card is here is would appear management is telling the players to tune out the coach vs. the players independently tuning out the coach. That is my problem in all of this. It is the front office, who I largely respect, taking too much of an ownership in the coaching, all while we have one of the best and most respected coaches in the league. Its disgraceful. It is the type of thing where you need JR to put everyone in a room and tell them to STFU. I would hope JR has learned from the Krause / PJax fiasco and really, Reinsdorf (maybe Paxson...depending on his overall feelings and how much he sides with Gar..presumably he does given their relationship) is the one guy who could make it all better and quick. After the STFU, Paxson and Gar should make a statement that he thinks Thibbs is doing a fantastic job and he has our full support. Right now, Gar just gives luke warm responses and does not say Thibbs is doing a really good job or anything like that. Rumors can hurt and sometimes you need to make those statements...even if the reality is the situation is still icy..let the disagreements reside in-house, don't let this get hashed out in the media. i am really surprise that Pax is involve in it. he been here with the whole PJax and Krause thing. the thing then, PJax had the support of the players, and the leadership of the players kept the team on board, meaning having MJ. this team does not have a MJ and i am wondering of the players on this team, who might not like, let alone support Thibs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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