2014-2015 NBA thread

[thxfrthmmrs]

Ditto. They're pretty much saving the dunk contest. A damn shame some of these guys don't look up some players on YouTube doing dunks. Some guys are spectacular. (Jonathan Clark before he destroyed his knee was amazing)

 

I am sure most of them do. Thing is most of those YouTube dunks take many attempts to before they succeed. And doing it in a competition on National TV is a lot more pressure than dunking at your local gym. Personally I think the new 3 attempts rule is stupid. They should go back to 90 seconds and let guys do whatever they want. At the end of 90 secs, give them 1 final attempt. Oladipo's last attempt of the one hand 360 off a lob could have been special, but he bombed his first two attempts and had to play it safe on the last attempt.

[SoxAce]

I am sure most of them do. Thing is most of those YouTube dunks take many attempts to before they succeed. And doing it in a competition on National TV is a lot more pressure than dunking at your local gym. Personally I think the new 3 attempts rule is stupid. They should go back to 90 seconds and let guys do whatever they want. At the end of 90 secs, give them 1 final attempt. Oladipo's last attempt of the one hand 360 off a lob could have been special, but he bombed his first two attempts and had to play it safe on the last attempt.

No s***. But yea, some do some don't. I don't think any of them really put the research in however. Most will tell you they look at past dunk contest and try to change something from that. I do agree with the changing of the 3 dunk rule as well.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Can athletes really get any better than this? At what point does the human body peak?

By 2025, every small guard will be a better than Jordan, fowards like LeBron will be a dime a dozen and centers like Shaq will be the norm. They'll be taking off from the three point line for dunks.

 

Just like in the modern age, guys like KLove will be rendered useless, what hope does he have to pull down rebounds against such athletic freaks? Steve Nash type players won't win MVPs since he won his MVPs like 50 years ago, Paul Pierce is so lucky he wasn't born in 2000...

[Jordan4life_2007]

By 2025, every small guard will be a better than Jordan, fowards like LeBron will be a dime a dozen and centers like Shaq will be the norm. They'll be taking off from the three point line for dunks.

 

Just like in the modern age, guys like KLove will be rendered useless, what hope does he have to pull down rebounds against such athletic freaks? Steve Nash type players won't win MVPs since he won his MVPs like 50 years ago, Paul Pierce is so lucky he wasn't born in 2000...

 

Jordan*jocker*alert!!!

 

Extreme hyperbole on your part for some reason. Nobody suggested any of what you said here. But the fact of the matter is the league as a whole dwarfs the 80's, 90's, s***, even the early 2000's from an athleticism standpoint. As training methods, medicine, etc, continue to improve/advance, it'll be even crazier 10 years from now. That's all I was saying.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Jordan*jocker*alert!!!

 

Extreme hyperbole on your part for some reason. Nobody suggested any of what you said here. But the fact of the matter is the league as a whole dwarfs the 80's, 90's, s***, even the early 2000's from an athleticism standpoint. As training methods, medicine, etc, continue to improve/advance, it'll be even crazier 10 years from now. That's all I was saying.

Being called a Jordan jocker by someone who named himself Jordan4Life, doe

 

True, there's a much bigger emphasis on athleticism in the NBA than before but there is also a noticeable drop in fundamental skills. You have a bunch of guys in the league today who can run and jump out of the building but do pretty much nothing else.

 

What I want to say, and I've had these discussions on other hoop forums, is that while athletes in general do get bigger and faster with modern sports training and medicine, it doesn't necessarily make them better basketball players. Someone like Larry Bird will be great no matter when he plays because of the high hoops IQ and the elite skillset he had. I firml believe the 86 Celtics would manhandle the LA Clippers if they played a 7 game series. Also, athletic freaks with a great skillset like Wilt, Shaq, MJ or LeBron will always be an outlier, every generation produces that one player who has the combination of great athleticism and great skillset. Just because you can run really fast and jump through the roof doesn't mean you're actually a good NBA player...

Edited February 15, 2015 by MexSoxFan#1

[Jordan4life_2007]

Being called a Jordan jocker by someone who named himself Jordan4Life, doe

 

True, there's a much bigger emphasis on athleticism in the NBA than before but there is also a noticeable drop in fundamental skills. You have a bunch of guys in the league today who can run and jump out of the building but do pretty much nothing else.

 

What I want to say, and I've had these discussions on other hoop forums, is that while athletes in general do get bigger and faster with modern sports training and medicine, it doesn't necessarily make them better basketball players. Someone like Larry Bird will be great no matter when he plays because of the high hoops IQ and the elite skillset he had. I firml believe the 86 Celtics would manhandle the LA Clippers if they played a 7 game series. Also, athletic freaks with a great skillset like Wilt, Shaq, MJ or LeBron will always be an outlier, every generation produces that one player who has the combination of great athleticism and great skillset. Just because you can run really fast and jump through the roof doesn't mean you're actually a good NBA player...

 

And on the other side you had guys with these "fundamental" skills that couldn't play dead back in the 80's and 90's because they were lacking everywhere else. You'll always have scrubs or guys that can't play no matter the era. But give me the physically gifted, athletic freaks with the higher ceiling over the fundamental dudes with a limited ceiling all day, every day. Of course, ideally, you'd like a combination of both.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Jordan4life

[MexSoxFan#1]

And on the other side you had guys with these "fundamental" skills that couldn't play dead back in the 80's and 90's because they were lacking everywhere else. You'll always have scrubs or guys that can't play no matter the era. But give me the physically gifted, athletic freaks with the higher ceiling over the fundamental dudes with a limited ceiling all day, every day. Of course, ideally, you'd like a combination of both.

I can agree to that. But the last champs prove that fundamentals will always be an integral part of good basketball and IMO, more important than freakish raw athletic ability, aside from Leonard, who else on the Spurs would anyone consider athletically gifted? Even on those dynasty Bulls aside from Jordan and Pippen and maybe Grant and an older Rodman, I'd be hardpressed to call anyone else an elite athlete.

 

You're right though, a combination of great athleticism and a decent skillset has a higher level than flat footed elite fundamentals guys, it's just infuriating in my eyes that a player like DHoward can look like a doofus inside with his horrible low post footwork. Olajuwon, never known for his elite athleticism, would destroy Howard prime vs prime. I think I would take above average athleticism combined with an elite skillset...

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can agree to that. But the last champs prove that fundamentals will always be an integral part of good basketball and IMO, more important than freakish raw athletic ability, aside from Leonard, who else on the Spurs would anyone consider athletically gifted? Even on those dynasty Bulls aside from Jordan and Pippen and maybe Grant and an older Rodman, I'd be hardpressed to call anyone else an elite athlete.

 

You're right though, a combination of great athleticism and a decent skillset has a higher level than flat footed elite fundamentals guys, it's just infuriating in my eyes that a player like DHoward can look like a doofus inside with his horrible low post footwork. Olajuwon, never known for his elite athleticism, would destroy Howard prime vs prime. I think I would take above average athleticism combined with an elite skillset...

 

Hakeem is one of the top 10-12 players ever. And you underestimate how athletic he was in his youth/peak.

[ZoomSlowik]

I've probably gone on this rant before, but I shudder to think what David Robinson would do in an era with fewer good centers. I mean look at some of this s***...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've probably gone on this rant before, but I shudder to think what David Robinson would do in an era with fewer good centers. I mean look at some of this s***...

 

 

 

 

He wouldn't do much more (if any) than he did during his time. With no illegal defense/zone defense you can do things with post guys you couldn't in 1994. He'd be great. But if you think he'd average nearly 30 you're crazy.

[Jose Abreu]

LeBron is trying way too hard

[ZoomSlowik]

He wouldn't do much more (if any) than he did during his time. With no illegal defense/zone defense you can do things with post guys you couldn't in 1994. He'd be great. But if you think he'd average nearly 30 you're crazy.

 

I'm speaking more about the playoffs. He was arguably one of the best regular season players of all time, but he repeated lost to guys like Hakeem, Barkley and Malone in the playoffs, frequently playing poorly. He'd destroy pretty much anyone if he played 10 years later or 15 years earlier.

Edited February 16, 2015 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm speaking more about the playoffs. He was arguably one of the best regular season players of all time, but he repeated lost to guys like Hakeem, Barkley and Malone in the playoffs.

 

If Twitter, etc, had been around in the 90's - Robinson would've been roasted the same way people roast Dwight today. He was a great player. But he was lacking quite a bit compared to other greats of his era.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I LOVE the nba we have today. But I can't wait for the day the conferences are more balanced. When the west can come with Durant, Westbrook, Paul, Dirk, Lillard off the bench? My goodness. That's just not fair.

[Jose Abreu]

Westbrook is taking over now

[Jordan4life_2007]

Westbrook is taking over now

 

Remember when Rose/Westbrook was a debate? Westbrook is the Shaq of pgs.

[ZoomSlowik]

If Twitter, etc, had been around in the 90's - Robinson would've been roasted the same way people roast Dwight today. He was a great player. But he was lacking quite a bit compared to other greats of his era.

 

He wasn't as good as Hakeem or Shaq, but few are. It didn't help that Hakeem punked him in the playoffs (he was just as good as Olajuwon in the regular season). His teams also sucked until they got Duncan. He was considerably better than Dwight.

Edited February 16, 2015 by ZoomSlowik

[Jose Abreu]

Remember when Rose/Westbrook was a debate? Westbrook is the Shaq of pgs.

Just wait

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The Admiral >>>>>>>> dwight

[Jordan4life_2007]

He wasn't as good as Hakeem or Shaq, but few are. It didn't help that Hakeem punked him in the playoffs (he was just as good as Olajuwon in the regular season). His teams also sucked until they got Duncan. He was considerably better than Dwight.

 

Being better than Dwight was not my point. Robinson routinely under-performed when it mattered. Think about if twitter was around in 1995 after getting bent-over by Hakeem the way he did. It'd be brutal.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just wait

 

Wait until what?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Remember when Rose/Westbrook was a debate? Westbrook is the Shaq of pgs.

 

I remembered back in 2009-10 I said Rose could learn a thing or two from Westbrook and I was toast by pretty much everyone on this board. But that was back in the days when Rose could do no wrong in the eyes of everyone in Chicago.

[bmags]

Honestly Howard takes a huge hit from the fact that he had 2 maybe 3 dominant years. He's a shell of himself, still quite good because of his position.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I remembered back in 2009-10 I said Rose could learn a thing or two from Westbrook and I was toast by pretty much everyone on this board. But that was back in the days when Rose could do no wrong in the eyes of everyone in Chicago.

 

It still wouldn't make sense

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Being better than Dwight was not my point. Robinson routinely under-performed when it mattered. Think about if twitter was around in 1995 after getting bent-over by Hakeem the way he did. It'd be brutal.

 

Yeah, for whatever reason he had several disappointing playoff runs. He had a couple decent postseasons, but there were wasted on iffy teams twice early in his career and another time they ran into the Jazz. He also missed the postseason in his 3rd year. He had a golden opportunity in 94-95.

Edited February 16, 2015 by ZoomSlowik