2014-2015 NBA thread

[Chisoxfn]

While true, I'd still take Nate over Hinrich and DJ over Hinrich. The problem is Hinrich. I'll already take Aaron over Hinrich.

Hinrich has gotten significant minutes everywhere he has played with multiple coaches. We have one of the best head coaches in the league and he clearly values Hinrich. DJ was absolutely atrocious defensively. I liked DJ and was appreciative of what he did and wanted him back, but I'm perfectly fine with Brooks and I always wanted Hinrich + DJ or a guy like Brooks. Hinrich is important because when you can limit his minutes, his efficiency will increase and he is capable of playing the 2 allowing Rose to play off the ball without hurting your defense.

[Chisoxfn]

You are right, for less money, Nate and DJ only offered us more ppg, more assists per game, better FG% and better 3pt FG%, and only slightly less steals and rebounds than Kirk Hinrich the past two years.

 

Also Kirk sucks at free throws.

DJ's defensive ratings were pretty horrific.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah and wasn't hinroch SO awesome in the playoffs? Nate Robinson won that series with nets along with noah and was reason we stole game 1 vs Heat

Hinrich's career playoff numbers are actually > then his career regular season numbers.

[Chisoxfn]

Golden State has to be dead at this point. They can't match Cleveland with Wiggins on the table. When losing a superstar like Love, this is a dream come true scenario for them.

There are posters on here who will cry why didn't the Bulls make this trade. It is absurd how much teams are going to give up for Love.

[Chisoxfn]

With what Wiggins has shown in summer league, I'm not trading him for Love. I'm prob in minority though.

A poll of GM's and Assistant Gm's indicated you were not in the minority. It was a smallish sample size though. The majority said they'd rather have Wiggins then Love (probably factors in contract as well). I hope the Cavs make that deal. Will really hinder their flexibility going forward and prevent them from being a good an above average defensive team, imo.

[Dick Allen]

Which really didnt do much for either party. And going back to Minnesotas haul for Garnett and all the way through Orlandos haul for Howard, trading for a star player really kind of sucks for the star trading team.

Trading stars in the NBA for a package of non star players rarely works out for the team giving up the star, going back to the Bucks trading Kareem.

[Balta1701]

A poll of GM's and Assistant Gm's indicated you were not in the minority. It was a smallish sample size though. The majority said they'd rather have Wiggins then Love (probably factors in contract as well). I hope the Cavs make that deal. Will really hinder their flexibility going forward and prevent them from being a good an above average defensive team, imo.

They clear a max contract when a guy reaches free agency in 2 seasons if they can't win a title.

[Kyyle23]

Trading stars in the NBA for a package of non star players rarely works out for the team giving up the star, going back to the Bucks trading Kareem.

 

 

I kept it recent, but outside of getting Wiggins, this is probably not going to work out well for Minnesota.

 

And even if they get Wiggins, he will probably just bide his time until it is his turn to force a trade, and the cycle begins anew

[Chisoxfn]

Trading stars in the NBA for a package of non star players rarely works out for the team giving up the star, going back to the Bucks trading Kareem.

That is why this is such a unique situation. Never have I seen a star generate such fair trade value in return. I can understand the Warriors offer but Cavs are offering up a lot of flexibility and two very high upside guys. They could potentially get the better deal, which is pretty much unheard of in this type of trade.

[Chisoxfn]

They clear a max contract when a guy reaches free agency in 2 seasons if they can't win a title.

You just think Lebron is bailing? I don't think so. He even talked about in his letter how he was in it to win 1 title (I'm sure he wants more) but he knew it would be a long-term move and play. He's waiting 2 years to get a fatter contract, unless of course, the next two years are total disasters, but if they are, it probably means something has happened to Lebron. Giving up Bennett, Wiggins, and a future 1st is just not a smart long-term move, imo. You need to have a good defense to win a title, imo, and they will not have that with their planned construction.

[2nd_city_saint787]

There are posters on here who will cry why didn't the Bulls make this trade. It is absurd how much teams are going to give up for Love.

 

My Noah+ trade offer doesn't seem so silly now does it. This isn't for a rental, Love has already said he'd resign in Cleveland and he's a Cali guy who would resign in GS as well. Those teams lost all their leverage when he said that. Teams are getting a 25 year old top 5-10 player in the league who WILL be with whatever team trades for him for quite some time. It's a little different from than say the Dwight Howard trade.

[Chisoxfn]

My Noah+ trade offer doesn't seem so silly now does it. This isn't for a rental, Love has already said he'd resign in Cleveland and he's a Cali guy who would resign in GS as well. Those teams lost all their leverage when he said that. Teams are getting a 25 year old top 5-10 player in the league who WILL be with whatever team trades for him for quite some time. It's a little different from than say the Dwight Howard trade.

I never called it silly. I was for it as long as we could land another star.

[Dick Allen]

I kept it recent, but outside of getting Wiggins, this is probably not going to work out well for Minnesota.

 

And even if they get Wiggins, he will probably just bide his time until it is his turn to force a trade, and the cycle begins anew

The uniqueness is the #1 overall pick. Seeing how Love is going to bail on Minnesota anyway, I really don't know how they turn down Wiggins myself. Certainly ask for more, but in the end, if you can't get it, take Wiggins before training camp starts and Love can hurt himself. And like you said, the cycle will start all over again.

[bmags]

Hinrich has gotten significant minutes everywhere he has played with multiple coaches. We have one of the best head coaches in the league and he clearly values Hinrich. DJ was absolutely atrocious defensively. I liked DJ and was appreciative of what he did and wanted him back, but I'm perfectly fine with Brooks and I always wanted Hinrich + DJ or a guy like Brooks. Hinrich is important because when you can limit his minutes, his efficiency will increase and he is capable of playing the 2 allowing Rose to play off the ball without hurting your defense.

 

He's "capable" of playing the 2. But so is Rose, you can still have a 2 guard lineup with either of the backups I would have preferred. If there is any benefit to pairing rose with an offensively deficient 2 guard who shoots 32% from long range, we would have seen it with Keith Bogans.

 

And it's great Hinrich has better career playoff ppg, but I'm not sure anyone cares what he did 10 years ago. I care about what will have happened with this crap player from years 2012-2016 when we'll have paid him $12 million to offer 9 ppg and 4 assists as the starting, primary ballhandler for 2 of those years. Thibs can hide terrible players defense much easier than he can make Kirk hinrich an average offensive player.

[Dick Allen]

You just think Lebron is bailing? I don't think so. He even talked about in his letter how he was in it to win 1 title (I'm sure he wants more) but he knew it would be a long-term move and play. He's waiting 2 years to get a fatter contract, unless of course, the next two years are total disasters, but if they are, it probably means something has happened to Lebron. Giving up Bennett, Wiggins, and a future 1st is just not a smart long-term move, imo. You need to have a good defense to win a title, imo, and they will not have that with their planned construction.

Yeah, I can't see LeBron ever bailing on Cleveland again. These short term deals with the one year opt out, are just to max his money IMO.

[bmags]

I kept it recent, but outside of getting Wiggins, this is probably not going to work out well for Minnesota.

 

And even if they get Wiggins, he will probably just bide his time until it is his turn to force a trade, and the cycle begins anew

 

But what are they supposed to do? They are going to come out about as well as anyone. And for as much as we think Denver is in NBA Hell, they are collecting good assets while being a potential playoff team. They may be able to pull of a great trade in the future, but for a franchise like that, making the playoffs is good news. They aren't like the Bucks of 07-12.

[Y2Jimmy0]

He's "capable" of playing the 2. But so is Rose, you can still have a 2 guard lineup with either of the backups I would have preferred. If there is any benefit to pairing rose with an offensively deficient 2 guard who shoots 32% from long range, we would have seen it with Keith Bogans.

 

And it's great Hinrich has better career playoff ppg, but I'm not sure anyone cares what he did 10 years ago. I care about what will have happened with this crap player from years 2012-2016 when we'll have paid him $12 million to offer 9 ppg and 4 assists as the starting, primary ballhandler for 2 of those years. Thibs can hide terrible players defense much easier than he can make Kirk hinrich an average offensive player.

 

 

Can't really play Rose and Augustin together. Tiny backcourt and both are bad defensively. Bringing back Hinrich was a good move. They replaced Augustin with a minimum player in Aaron Brooks anyway.

[Kyyle23]

But what are they supposed to do? They are going to come out about as well as anyone. And for as much as we think Denver is in NBA Hell, they are collecting good assets while being a potential playoff team. They may be able to pull of a great trade in the future, but for a franchise like that, making the playoffs is good news. They aren't like the Bucks of 07-12.

 

Denver has been just like the Bulls in the western conference. Good enough in the season to get b**** slapped in the playoffs by better teams with superstars.

 

There are so many things Minnesota should have done prior to this point, but that is just kickign a dead horse. If they can get Wiggins, thats great, I stated before that I think Cleveland should hold on to Wiggins over trading for Love. I just think that stating that Minnesota is on track to get the greatest haul since Denver isnt exactly a glowing endoresement for trading a superstar.

[Steve9347]

Everyone stfu about Summer League statistics. Last year, Marquis Teague put up 18.3 ppg 4.8 apg.

[southsider2k5]

Can't really play Rose and Augustin together. Tiny backcourt and both are bad defensively. Bringing back Hinrich was a good move. They replaced Augustin with a minimum player in Aaron Brooks anyway.

 

I know hating Hinrich is a thing, but in his role, Kirk plays a big role on a team. Can he start and play 35 minutes? Hell no. He is a valuable bench member who helps the Bulls.

[bmags]

Denver has been just like the Bulls in the western conference. Good enough in the season to get b**** slapped in the playoffs by better teams with superstars.

 

There are so many things Minnesota should have done prior to this point, but that is just kickign a dead horse. If they can get Wiggins, thats great, I stated before that I think Cleveland should hold on to Wiggins over trading for Love. I just think that stating that Minnesota is on track to get the greatest haul since Denver isnt exactly a glowing endoresement for trading a superstar.

 

But the bulls are a big market that has won championships in the past and has that expectation.

 

For smaller franchises, being in the playoffs IS a big deal and is their goal. If Denver can get to Memphis levels of success, I think that would be a huge accomplishment.

[Steve9347]

I know hating Hinrich is a thing, but in his role, Kirk plays a big role on a team. Can he start and play 35 minutes? Hell no. He is a valuable bench member who helps the Bulls.

He helps the Bulls when healthy. I'd say he hurts the Bulls almost as much, because he can't be depended on and the roster thin at guard has to make up for his many missed games.

[southsider2k5]

He helps the Bulls when healthy. I'd say he hurts the Bulls almost as much, because he can't be depended on and the roster thin at guard has to make up for his many missed games.

 

He isn't going to get nearly as beat up if he is playing 15-20 minutes a night, versus 35. Also a pretty good chance those minutes aren't in clutch time, with the team in front of him.

[Steve9347]

He isn't going to get nearly as beat up if he is playing 15-20 minutes a night, versus 35. Also a pretty good chance those minutes aren't in clutch time, with the team in front of him.

I believe you mean crunch time. However, clutch time would be pretty cool, but it's a phrase untested on most of our roster.

[bmags]

Can't really play Rose and Augustin together. Tiny backcourt and both are bad defensively. Bringing back Hinrich was a good move. They replaced Augustin with a minimum player in Aaron Brooks anyway.

 

Rose really isn't that bad defensively, and if someone can explain to me what you are getting in Hinrich at the 2, I'd love to hear it. Is it a better offensive lineup with him there? If not, then it must be better at defense...but I'd much rather use Snell's 7 foot wingspan at SG if we are going defense and jimmy at the 3.

 

So it must be adding a second ballhandler. I am drooling right now thinking about kirk dribbling for 15 seconds and then passing it to a cutting rose to shoot a desperation shotclock expiring jumper.

 

Hinrich is Mark Kotsay in his stay with the white sox. You can all make all the arguments about all these things Hinrich "can" do, but he's not particularly good at any of them. I'd much, much rather have given ourselves a potential offense-heavy unit that paired rose with a guard who can take defenders off the dribble and shoot 3s at a consistent clip. We don't have that. We do have guards that aren't particularly good on offense, decent at defense and aren't inspired balhandlers.