Jake Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm with J4L on this one. I'm not sure about how I feel re:Wiggins vs. Love because I'm not super high on Wiggins either, but Love is very much overrated IMO. As said, not useful on D and the type of guy on O that both relies on teammates yet doesn't create opportunities for them. I think you'd see a very Bosh-like drop in statistics if he goes to CLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The "Kevin Love has never been to the playoffs" stuff really needs to die. There are several good reasons he hasn't been to the playoffs... 1) He's only been KEVIN.LOVE. for three of his six seasons. He played under 30 MPG his first two years while frequently coming off the bench and last year was a lost cause due to his hand injury. 2) The T-Wolves are in the west, which is significantly stronger. 3) His GM for most of his career was David KKKKKKKKKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNN. The team around him was horses*** before his last two years, and again, he missed most of one of them. 4) The T-Wolves were a playoff-caliber team last year. They had a point differential of +2.7, which was better than the worst three teams ahead of them in the West and would have been good for 4th in the East (even before adjusting for the fact it likely would have been better with an extra 20 games against the weaker conference). They sucked in close games, which can at least partly be attributed to luck. Now he's not a KG-level player that can single-handedly carry his team because he's an average defender at best (I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole. I'll leave it at "he has strengths and weaknesses"). However, there aren't all that many guys that can in the league right now. There's a sizeable drop-off after Lebron and Durant and people will have their opinions about which guys are better. It's not like he's the only elite player with issues defensively (Harden, Melo, Curry and Lillard are four that immediately come to mind). The bottom line is he's a very good player that can easily fit in on a good team. He's not the kind of guy that needs to dominate the ball to get his points, and his floor spacing is outstanding. He'll benefit greatly from playing with a PG that would actually win a HORSE tournament against Soxtalk members and a better/more mobile defensive center than he's used to (though obviously Noah would be a lot better than Varejao). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Are we so sure about the extent to which Kyrie is a better HORSE player than Rubio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 10:02 PM) gmab. Kevin Garnett had mostly crap around him and had to go up against the shaq/kobe lakers, prime duncan spurs, webber/peja/divac kings, dirk/nash mavs, portland was pretty good from what i remember and still made the playoffs every year outside of a couple. I like love a lot. But he's become overrated ever since LeBron went back to cleveland. He's a net-minus defensively and doesn't do anything to make guys better around him. I personally don't give up a potential t-mac on offense, paul george on defense for him. I agree with J4L too. Love is good. I think Wiggins is going to be a superstar though. If he was offered, the deal would be done in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 12:19 AM) Are we so sure about the extent to which Kyrie is a better HORSE player than Rubio? Yes. Absolutely. Rubio can't shoot for s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 12:48 AM) I agree with J4L too. Love is good. I think Wiggins is going to be a superstar though. If he was offered, the deal would be done in my opinion. Love is a superstar undoubtedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 06:19 AM) Are we so sure about the extent to which Kyrie is a better HORSE player than Rubio? Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Espn with a rountable on Wiggins vs. Love. Better player in 5 years: Elhassan: I hate comparing players who play completely different positions, but if I have to choose one, I'm going to go with the guy who has a chance to make an impact on both ends of the floor: Wiggins. Harper: It'll be Love. Wiggins should be knocking on the door of surpassing Love by then, and his defense will obviously be better, but being better than Love on the boards and on offense will be a tall order. Wiggins won't be a better passer and is unlikely to be a better shooter than Love, who's been one of the league's best scorers for a couple seasons now. Pelton: Love. He'll be 30 then, just in the tail end of his prime, and for Wiggins to reach the level Love is already at (a top-five player in the league) would require him to develop his skills dramatically. That's a best-case scenario. Strauss: Love. Shooters age well, and Love should be entering the end of his prime. Wiggins is a good prospect, but I'll side with the known quantity over the player with potential. Should Cavs be willing to give up Wiggins for Love Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: I suppose they should be willing in the sense that any player should be in play for trade opportunities. But I think the Cavs should strive to keep him out of any deal, as he's got the potential to develop into the type of two-way talent who can provide a bridge to the future, like Tony Parker was for the Spurs as a 19-year old point guard. Zach Harper, TrueHoop: Absolutely. I don't fault them for hoping to keep Wiggins while also trading for Love, but if their goal is to win titles with LeBron James, this is the way to go about it. LeBron turns 30 at the end of this year and has maybe five more years of prime play left. Wiggins will be great someday but not as good as Love is right now -- or will be over the next five years. Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: If they've concluded Minnesota won't accept any package that doesn't include Wiggins, absolutely. Because he is worth more than a maximum contract, Love is one of the league's best values -- better even than Wiggins' rookie contract. Ethan Sherwood Strauss, ESPN.com: Yes. James will be turning 30, and Wiggins is 19. Their window is probably now, and it's difficult to trust that LeBron will stay in any one place for so long. I acknowledge that trading Wiggins is a risky, scary move, but I lean toward flanking James with another star -- Love -- who's in his prime. Brian Windhorst, ESPN.com: Yes. He's an ideal player to put next to James. But they have to get Love to at least pick up his option for next season as part of the deal. Otherwise, the risk seems too great. I think people here must be forgetting he's only 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 09:40 PM) It's essentially never stupid trading for a top 10 player in the league in Love, assuming he reups. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 10:02 PM) gmab. Kevin Garnett had mostly crap around him and had to go up against the shaq/kobe lakers, prime duncan spurs, webber/peja/divac kings, dirk/nash mavs, portland was pretty good from what i remember and still made the playoffs every year outside of a couple. I like love a lot. But he's become overrated ever since LeBron went back to cleveland. He's a net-minus defensively and doesn't do anything to make guys better around him. I personally don't give up a potential t-mac on offense, paul george on defense for him. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 11:17 PM) I'm with J4L on this one. I'm not sure about how I feel re:Wiggins vs. Love because I'm not super high on Wiggins either, but Love is very much overrated IMO. As said, not useful on D and the type of guy on O that both relies on teammates yet doesn't create opportunities for them. I think you'd see a very Bosh-like drop in statistics if he goes to CLE Agreed. It is much different being "the man" on a really bad team. It is quite another to be the 2nd or 3rd on a really good team. I think Love makes them better today, but I think Wiggins is better in the long run. He seems like the type of player that makes his team better, versus Love who isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) Agreed. It is much different being "the man" on a really bad team. It is quite another to be the 2nd or 3rd on a really good team. I think Love makes them better today, but I think Wiggins is better in the long run. He seems like the type of player that makes his team better, versus Love who isn't. That's placing a bet that may not pay out. Love is already a top player in the league, there is no guarantee Wiggins will ever reach that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 08:56 AM) Fixed He is top 5 but even then you're still proving my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 09:06 AM) That's placing a bet that may not pay out. Love is already a top player in the league, there is no guarantee Wiggins will ever reach that level. Sort of like when Jerry Krause was saying he saw Tyson Chandler as a future 20/10 guy when he traded a 20/10 guy to get him. Like you said, Wiggins may or may not be better than Love eventually, but considering Minnesota is going to lose Love anyway and Wiggins will be playing for rookie scale, I don't see how Minnesota turns down Cleveland if they really do offer him up in trade. Potentially he is IMO the best player that has been mentioned available for Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) Sort of like when Jerry Krause was saying he saw Tyson Chandler as a future 20/10 guy when he traded a 20/10 guy to get him. Like you said, Wiggins may or may not be better than Love eventually, but considering Minnesota is going to lose Love anyway and Wiggins will be playing for rookie scale, I don't see how Minnesota turns down Cleveland if they really do offer him up in trade. Potentially he is IMO the best player that has been mentioned available for Love. Minny would be stupid to not take that deal, moronic. However I think Cleveland also think they can get Love for bench garbage and some possible picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) And what the hell is this that keeps getting posted that Love doesn't create for others? He's the best outlet passer in the nba and it's not close. Him to Lebron on the fast break would be the scariest thing to happen to nba defenders. I know he plays in Minnesota but come on, at least watch him a little bit. Edited July 23, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You know what Lebron's not going to want to do as he gets older? Bang in the post. You know who can take over those duties for him? Love. Love can play the high low fun game for him. The dude is averaging 26-12-4.5 on 46% shooting and 38% shooting from three as the man on that team. Bosh shot 30% from 3. his volume of shots will go down, but likely his interior shooting will go up with teams prepping to collapse on Lebron help OR he provides incredible spacing for Lebron because unlike Bosh, teams legitimately need to defend his 3s. Wiggins may well be great but nobody is going to laugh that you traded for a guy with Charles Barkley numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) You know what Lebron's not going to want to do as he gets older? Bang in the post. You know who can take over those duties for him? Love. Love can play the high low fun game for him. The dude is averaging 26-12-4.5 on 46% shooting and 38% shooting from three as the man on that team. Bosh shot 30% from 3. his volume of shots will go down, but likely his interior shooting will go up with teams prepping to collapse on Lebron help OR he provides incredible spacing for Lebron because unlike Bosh, teams legitimately need to defend his 3s. Wiggins may well be great but nobody is going to laugh that you traded for a guy with Charles Barkley numbers. Lebron is much more likely to be the post guy. If you look at trends, Lebron took 40% of his shots at the rim last year while Love took 25% of his shots there. Love took 35% of his shots from 3 point range while Lebron took 23% of his shots from there. Love is still a better fit for Lebron on offense than Bosh was, but Bosh was no slouch when it came to shooting. He shot nearly 49% from 16 feet to 3 point range and shot 34% from 3 last year. Bosh is also much, much better than Love is defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Oh boy.... Chris Sheridan @sheridanhoops 4m EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source. http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/23/ex...rotic-for-love/ … That's not a bad offer at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 One that unfortunately falls well short of Wiggins. But I'm down for another hype train. Choo choo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Boogua @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) Lebron is much more likely to be the post guy. I totally disagree. I think Lebron did it because he had to, but it (rightfully) wears him out. And the older he gets the harder it will be for him to take that role every night. Obviously, Rose (edit: Rose? I meant love) is a stretch 4, but he can absolutely go down low and distribute well, not Lebron well, but well. Edited July 23, 2014 by bmags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) One that unfortunately falls well short of Wiggins. But I'm down for another hype train. Choo choo! Probably, but I guess it depends on the TWolves perception. One of their beat writers said they love McDermott, they could be of the belief that Niko is the top 5 pick everyone always brings up, and Taj fits real well next to Pekovic. And on the other end of things, they could see Bennett as trash......Wiggins is the best player, but that Bulls package might be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) One that unfortunately falls well short of Wiggins. But I'm down for another hype train. Choo choo! Well short? Meh. Mirotic is not exactly a slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) Well short? Meh. Mirotic is not exactly a slouch. Maybe not talent wise, but the contracts Minnesota is getting is going to allow them to build a team around them. (or, they'll strike out on all FA's like the hawks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) Oh boy.... That's not a bad offer at all. Again unless Love states that he will only resign here, it is a complete waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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