2014-2015 NBA thread

[witesoxfan]

Man, outside of this board (where everyone for the most part sees the forest and the trees) it's funny how many Bulls fans hated this trade - probably something like 80%. So much whining about how the Bulls are stupid to give up so many assets. But these are mostly the same people bemoaning another "Plan B" offseason because our conservative front office can't ever close deals and is too risk-averse/overvalues its assets to pull off any significant deals. Complaining about either one of these things is ok, but both? That just makes you look like a f***ing idiot.

 

It's because people see that "zOMG ur given up 3 gud playerz for 1 WTH" without realizing how star oriented the NBA really is. This isn't baseball or football. One guy can literally change the landscape for a team.

 

The 2006-07 Celtics went 24-58 and had the second worst record in the NBA. They brought in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, filled their roster with vets and rookies, and went 66-16 and won the NBA title. THEY IMPROVED BY 42 GAMES WITH THE ADDITION OF (essentially) 2 PLAYERS (plus bench mob types).

 

The Bulls would be insane not to make that trade.

[Jenksismyhero]

It's because people see that "zOMG ur given up 3 gud playerz for 1 WTH" without realizing how star oriented the NBA really is. This isn't baseball or football. One guy can literally change the landscape for a team.

 

The 2006-07 Celtics went 24-58 and had the second worst record in the NBA. They brought in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, filled their roster with vets and rookies, and went 66-16 and won the NBA title. THEY IMPROVED BY 42 GAMES WITH THE ADDITION OF (essentially) 2 PLAYERS (plus bench mob types).

 

The Bulls would be insane not to make that trade.

 

Or it's that people think Love is a stat-padder and isn't as good as his numbers suggest. I'd take him with this deal, and I would love the spacing for Rose that he would provide, but I can understand the hesitation. There's a lot of potential with Mirotic and McDermott, and Taj is one of the best defenders in the game.

 

Also, if you're going up against Cleveland or the Spurs or whoever, you need as many offensive weapons as possible. Bringing in Love basically drops you down to 2 (him and Rose), maybe three if you include Gasol. Whereas Mirotic and McDermott, IF you believe the hype, could get you scoring from 4 positions if necessary (Rose, McDermott, Mirotic, Gasol).

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Or it's that people think Love is a stat-padder and isn't as good as his numbers suggest. I'd take him with this deal, and I would love the spacing for Rose that he would provide, but I can understand the hesitation. There's a lot of potential with Mirotic and McDermott, and Taj is one of the best defenders in the game.

 

Also, if you're going up against Cleveland or the Spurs or whoever, you need as many offensive weapons as possible. Bringing in Love basically drops you down to 2 (him and Rose), maybe three if you include Gasol. Whereas Mirotic and McDermott, IF you believe the hype, could get you scoring from 4 positions if necessary (Rose, McDermott, Mirotic, Gasol).

There's no way you can argue swapping Mirotic and McDermott for Love does not improve this team offensively. Mirotic is a third string power forward.

[southsider2k5]

Hemming and hawing about "depth" which was useless come playoff time in 2011 and 2012.

 

"But the Spurs!" they say. Like you can just BE the Spurs. I want the Bears to be the Patriots too.

 

Depth is what teams that don't have superstars (note plural) need. Even in the case of the Spurs, they have superstars.

[2nd_city_saint787]

At this point, the FO has to just make it work. It may not look feasible to us, but the bean counters tend to do a lot of magic when things like this happen

 

Messing around with NBA trade machine, Bulls would have to send back 18M in contracts to make it work....Niko/Taj/DMD is 15.5.

 

So pretty much they'd either have to include MJD or Butler and Snell.

 

Trade MJD...Convince Marion to play for the min....go with...

 

Rose/Hinrich/Brooks

Martin/Butler

Marion/Snell

Love/Pau/Bairstow

Noah/Pau/Naz

 

...Championships

[bmags]

Or it's that people think Love is a stat-padder and isn't as good as his numbers suggest. I'd take him with this deal, and I would love the spacing for Rose that he would provide, but I can understand the hesitation. There's a lot of potential with Mirotic and McDermott, and Taj is one of the best defenders in the game.

 

Also, if you're going up against Cleveland or the Spurs or whoever, you need as many offensive weapons as possible. Bringing in Love basically drops you down to 2 (him and Rose), maybe three if you include Gasol. Whereas Mirotic and McDermott, IF you believe the hype, could get you scoring from 4 positions if necessary (Rose, McDermott, Mirotic, Gasol).

 

If he's a statpadder, it's strange that he doesn't shoot 40% from the field from him shooting at such high volume.

 

Mcdermott, mirotic, they may be able to do nothing but sit on the perimeter and wait for a pass (which Love is great at). Think of the first round. A Wizards team, which was average defensively in regular season, was suddenly pressed up on every lane, every space was contested, everything was so much...harder. That's when you need another star, who can make the offense go even when the defense picks up.

 

Love has been under pretty terrible coaches defensively. They've been bad for a long time. I don't think Rubio and Martin play particularly inspired defense, and Pekovic is a turnstyle, at any given time, they had 1 good defender. It's very possible Thibs turns Love into a good defensive player within the team defense. The wolves d looked like what a rotation of rose dunleavy mcdermott mirotic and gasol would look like vs the spurs.

[Rowand44]

At this point you'd be trading 3 bench players for a top 10 player in the league. It's a simplistic way to look at it but it also makes you realize how much of a no brainer it really is.

[Kyyle23]

There's no way you can argue swapping Mirotic and McDermott for Love does not improve this team offensively. Mirotic is a third string power forward.

 

I am all about making this trade, no questions asked, but you have no idea what Mirotic is. Nobody really does yet

[Buehrle>Wood]

Im talking about on the Bulls roster.The Bulls do or they aren't giving Gasol big money.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[Boogua]

Im talking about on the Bulls roster.The Bulls do or they aren't giving Gasol big money.

Yes, but Gasol can also play center. With the way the roster is currently constructed I wouldn't doubt Gasol sees a ton of time at center. You have 4 front court players for two positions, so we shouldn't make it seem like Mirotic is buried right now.

[bmags]

that said, 2.5% chance this is happening.

 

Just sucks, for last 3 years I've felt like Love was THE offensive player (not named lebron James) to pair with Rose.

[Rowand44]

We're still the Bulls so I'm still at there's a 0 percent chance this happens.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Yes, but Gasol can also play center. With the way the roster is currently constructed I wouldn't doubt Gasol sees a ton of time at center. You have 4 front court players for two positions, so we shouldn't make it seem like Mirotic is buried right now.

It's Thibs. Last two years our 4th big was getting 10 minutes a game. Even before that Asik was getting under 15.

 

 

 

 

 

I expect that to go up but don't expect that to change much. Noah is going to play 35 mpg. Mirotic may be a great player but he's really just not that important to this team, under this coach.

[bmags]

It would really, really help things if Mirotic turned out to be a good 3.

[Buehrle>Wood]

It would really, really help things if Mirotic turned out to be a good 3.

That would be great. Thibs and Forman both stated they considered him a 4 rather than a 3 though so I imagine they know the plan for him.

[Boogua]

It's Thibs. Last two years our 4th big was getting 10 minutes a game. Even before that Asik was getting under 15.

 

 

 

 

 

I expect that to go up but don't expect that to change much. Noah is going to play 35 mpg. Mirotic may be a great player but he's really just not that important to this team, under this coach.

We really have no idea though. Sure, in Thibs' perfect situation you're probably right, but Gasol is prone to miss time. Noah, before last year had never even played more than 64 games in a season since his second year in the league (when he didn't start). With Gibson you have the luxury that he can also play center against most teams (today's centers suck) so Mirotic could be really important for this team based on the injury histories of the players ahead of him.

 

I'd obviously trade him in a heartbeat for Love, though.

[southsider2k5]

We're still the Bulls so I'm still at there's a 0 percent chance this happens.

 

That is pretty high TBH.

[Dick Allen]

Rosenbloom did have a funny line, he said the Bulls are rumored to be in trade talks for Kevin Love and always will be until he's traded to the Cavs or the Warriors.

 

We all know it, yet we still let it suck us in at least a little bit.

[2nd_city_saint787]

This thread was actually goin good....Sigh.

 

If Wiggins is involved and they (The Wolves) think he's gonna be a star, what can you do? If the reports of the trade offer is true they're putting forth one helluva effort, much like they did with Melo, and I can't fault them for not getting it done,

[Buehrle>Wood]

I think we all already knew you wouldn't blame the front office, scs.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I think we all already knew you wouldn't blame the front office, scs.

 

Because I think it's absolutely foolish to do so.

[Dick Allen]

This thread was actually goin good....Sigh.

 

If Wiggins is involved and they (The Wolves) think he's gonna be a star, what can you do? If the reports of the trade offer is true they're putting forth one helluva effort, much like they did with Melo, and I can't fault them for not getting it done,

There's nothing you can do. And if the #1 pick in the draft wasn't available, it's pretty much a no brainer the Bulls offer should be taken, assuming everything is accurate. But we all knew Melo was going to stay in NY. We all know Love is going to Cleveland, we all know the Bulls will get another 2nd place ribbon, yet we all still think there's a chance like me when I buy a powerball ticket.

 

Minnesota is going to get a nice return for a guy that was going to flee anyway. If it was me, as much as I want him to be a Bull, I cannot pass on Wiggins. I really like McBuckets and I think Mirotic has a chance to be exceptional, but IMO Wiggins is the best player. Stars are the hardest thing to acquire especially when you have to sell Minneapolis in the winter and a franchise with no playoff appearances. Wiggins is the best bet to be a star.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Messing around with NBA trade machine, Bulls would have to send back 18M in contracts to make it work....Niko/Taj/DMD is 15.5.

 

So pretty much they'd either have to include MJD or Butler and Snell.

 

Trade MJD...Convince Marion to play for the min....go with...

 

Rose/Hinrich/Brooks

Martin/Butler

Marion/Snell

Love/Pau/Bairstow

Noah/Pau/Naz

 

...Championships

 

I did the math as well, and after that trade (which I think would never happen), Bulls should be at $68.7 mil salary wise for 10 roster spots, still way under the tax apron.

 

In this dream scenario though, I have a hard time seeing a 36 years old Marion starting at SF over Butler, who Thibs obviously trust too much. He's better suited as a backup so he can play some 3 and 4 on this team.

 

A healthy starting 5 over Rose-Martin-Butler-Love-Noah with Brooks-Hinrich-Snell-Marion-Gasol off the bench would easily be better and DEEPER than any of the Heat teams we seen in the past 4 years.

[2nd_city_saint787]

There's nothing you can do. And if the #1 pick in the draft wasn't available, it's pretty much a no brainer the Bulls offer should be taken, assuming everything is accurate. But we all knew Melo was going to stay in NY. We all know Love is going to Cleveland, we all know the Bulls will get another 2nd place ribbon, yet we all still think there's a chance like me when I buy a powerball ticket.

 

Minnesota is going to get a nice return for a guy that was going to flee anyway. If it was me, as much as I want him to be a Bull, I cannot pass on Wiggins. I really like McBuckets and I think Mirotic has a chance to be exceptional, but IMO Wiggins is the best player. Stars are the hardest thing to acquire especially when you have to sell Minneapolis in the winter and a franchise with no playoff appearances. Wiggins is the best bet to be a star.

 

Exactly.....If anything we should be faulting ourselves for getting our hopes up.

 

There's literally nothing the FO could have done differently to make these happen. There are 29 other teams in this league, in the case of Melo, 1 of those teams could offer significantly much more money, and it just so happens that team resides in his "home town". And in the case of Love, 1 of those other teams just happens to have a potential superstar, "The greatest wing since Lebron", to offer, and they just so happen to have the greatest superstar of our generation on that team making it a desirable location to extend long term.

 

I just don't don't understand how we can fault the FO for trying. They're offering up a guy who should have won 6th man of the year(Taj), a guy who the TWolves supposedly covet (Dougie), and a guy who was talked about as a lottery pick in this "loaded" draft(Niko). If the Twolves wanna take the best player vs the best package, what can you do? Outside of adding Noah, which makes no sense, absolutely nothing.

Edited July 24, 2014 by scs787

[Buehrle>Wood]

Your posting as if this pursuit of Kevin Love is 24 hours old when it's actually 17,500 hours old.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood