Balta1701 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:18 PM) The Bulls are always going to be fighting their coaches. It's in their DNA. They ran Phil Jackson out of town, and they will do the same thing to the guy who takes over for Thibs. I'm expecting the guy who takes over for Thibs to be a lackey who is fired for being terrible within about 2 years, maybe less. They will run him out of town because the team is dramatically underperforming and we hear things about locker room mutinies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Seriously, if Jimmy Butler was all star material, he wouldn't have been drafted #29. Do you honestly believe if he gets drafted by say Michael Jordan and Charlotte, that he is still turned into an all-star? If the answer is no, the answer is coaching did it. And look at those names... Pau is having his best season in years and years. Noah is another one of Thibs classic overachievers. Taj is another Butler who turned into something WAY higher than anyone expected he could be when he was drafted. Im pretty sure I posted about Butler when he was drafted. But the reason he didnt go higher is because he was just terribly misused at Marquette. He would often play the 4, sometimes play the 5. And I definitely posted about Taj when he was drafted. Not saying that Thibs deserves no credit, but Im pretty sure the main reason Jimmy Butler is good, is Jimmy Butler's work ethic. That being said, if a 1st rounder doesnt do well, its most likely the players not the coach (unless of course they go to another team and are amazing). Just like if a late round pick does good, its usually the player, not the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) So the front office gets no credit whatsoever for putting together pretty good teams year after year? The front office has struck out on star after star, and has spent year after year filling the roster with ad hoc replacements trying to bridge the gap until the next star fell into their lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) The front office has struck out on star after star, and has spent year after year filling the roster with ad hoc replacements trying to bridge the gap until the next star fell into their lap. Well, I don't disagree with that in principal, but in the time period we're talking about, they've struck out on 2 guys that would have made an impact and a bunch of guys who were ad hoc replacements you're talking about that wouldn't have changed anything. Lebron was never coming here and Melo is a good miss now. Aldridge is the only other guy I can think of that really wanted to be here, but then you lose out on Noah and how much better are you really? Who else did they miss on that would have made them contenders? They're not perfect - Lee would have been so much better than Boozer - but I'd give them a B+/A- in Thibs' tenure. End of the day, they're stuck with Rose. Edited March 10, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 They didn't really miss out on guys, but you just listed a half a dozen of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:51 PM) They didn't really miss out on guys, but you just listed a half a dozen of them? It used to be that I could say "Yeah they missed out on Aldridge but if they'd had him then they wouldn't have gotten Rose" and that would have been something you'd think of as a bad thing for the Bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:51 PM) They didn't really miss out on guys, but you just listed a half a dozen of them? So you have no names. Who are these stars they're missing out on that were realistic options? Lebron wasn't reality. Melo is literally the only one they "missed" on (missed since he was all about the money that the Bulls couldn't get close to, and it's now looking like a great miss), the others were choices they made, good or bad. I get the pent up frustration with the Bulls FA post-Jordan, but realistically since 2010 they couldn't have done much better. They've tied their wagon to Rose, they gave him a much-deserved max deal, and then he broke. Edited March 10, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:55 PM) So you have no names. Who are these stars they're missing out on that were realistic options? Lebron wasn't reality. Melo is literally the only one they "missed" on (missed since he was all about the money that the Bulls couldn't get close to, and it's now looking like a great miss), the others were choices they made, good or bad. I get the pent up frustration with the Bulls FA post-Jordan, but realistically since 2010 they couldn't have done much better. They've tied their wagon to Rose, they gave him a much-deserved max deal, and then he broke. All you have to do is look at the players who have changed teams in the NBA, and know that if the Bulls wanted to, they could have gotten into deals for just about any of them. But they don't. They tied their wagon to Rose. This team has need another star even with pre-surgery Rose... they still haven't gotten it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:58 PM) All you have to do is look at the players who have changed teams in the NBA, and know that if the Bulls wanted to, they could have gotten into deals for just about any of them. But they don't. They tied their wagon to Rose. This team has need another star even with pre-surgery Rose... they still haven't gotten it done. Yeah they tied their wagon to Rose, the freakin' youngest MVP in the league's history. Are you saying that was a bad move?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 05:03 PM) Yeah they tied their wagon to Rose, the freakin' youngest MVP in the league's history. Are you saying that was a bad move?! In hindsight, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 03:58 PM) All you have to do is look at the players who have changed teams in the NBA, and know that if the Bulls wanted to, they could have gotten into deals for just about any of them. But they don't. They tied their wagon to Rose. This team has need another star even with pre-surgery Rose... they still haven't gotten it done. Yeah the Bulls made no effort to get Lebron/Bosh. If anything the Bulls have gone overboard trying to get guys like Melo. And the reality is, missing on Melo may be one of the best things to happen. Anything less than signing Lebron James was not going to result in the Bulls getting to the NBA Finals. I guess you could argue that had the Bulls traded Noah for Bosh before he went to FA, that it may have changed the course of history and that possibly James to Miami never happens. But Im pretty sure that not many people wanted to give up Noah when the possibility of getting Bosh/James as FA's was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) Yeah they tied their wagon to Rose, the freakin' youngest MVP in the league's history. Are you saying that was a bad move?! They needed more than Rose all along. Everyone on the freaking planet knew it. Thibs coached the s*** out of the roster he was given. He coached them to more than just about anyone else could have. Management hasn't been able to get Thibs the other big time player he needed. The closest they have come was getting Pau here, and really there wasn't a whole of excitement over him, as most thought he was going to be nothing near his good ol days, yet he gets here and is great again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I just dont feel Thibs ever overachieved in the playoffs. In fact he has never done better than his seeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) They needed more than Rose all along. Everyone on the freaking planet knew it. Thibs coached the s*** out of the roster he was given. He coached them to more than just about anyone else could have. Management hasn't been able to get Thibs the other big time player he needed. The closest they have come was getting Pau here, and really there wasn't a whole of excitement over him, as most thought he was going to be nothing near his good ol days, yet he gets here and is great again. Who was a viable option? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?p...reeAgents-11-12 Hear are your free agents in 2011 and 2012. Love and Howard are the only two I see on there and Love ended up signing an extension and Howard, IIRC, had no interest in the Bulls and was traded to the Lakers and ruined their short-term future by not resigning (oh and he's not really been dominant Dwight since). You're living in an alternative universe man. There was no realistic option out there that would have done anything to make the Bulls THAT much better than they were in 2010. And shoot, look at the team right now. Your starting 5, if healthy, consists of a hall of fame center, the youngest MVP in league history and multiple all-star, the reigning defensive player of the year and all-star, a budding all-star, and a solid vet, with a bench that consists of a starter-level 6th man of the year candidate and a really good rookie in waiting. But yeah, the FO sucks and hasn't given Thibs ANYTHING to work with. Edited March 10, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) Who was a viable option? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?p...reeAgents-11-12 Hear are your free agents in 2011 and 2012. Love and Howard are the only two I see on there and Love ended up signing an extension and Howard, IIRC, had no interest in the Bulls and was traded to the Lakers and ruined their short-term future by not resigning (oh and he's not really been dominant Dwight since). You're living in an alternative universe man. There was no realistic option out there that would have done anything to make the Bulls THAT much better than they were in 2010. And shoot, look at the team right now. Your starting 5, if healthy, consists of a hall of fame center, the youngest MVP in league history and multiple all-star, the reigning defensive player of the year and all-star, a budding all-star, and a solid vet, with a bench that consists of a starter-level 6th man of the year candidate and a really good rookie in waiting. But yeah, the FO sucks and hasn't given Thibs ANYTHING to work with. And apparently all of that was the result of the front office, and not the coach. But yes, counting on Derrick Rose to be healthy after two knee surgeries was brilliant work by the front office, if only the coach hadn't have gotten him a third knee surgery all by himself. Speaking of living in an alternate universe.... If there were any more sunshine in your reality, you'd be living on Mercury. More realistically, a star player, two knee surgeries later, who is afraid to play at 100%. A former DPOY who is coming off of knee surgery, and no where near 100%. A former All-star center, coming off of hte worst stretch of his career. A rookie who was no where near ready to contribute, can't shoot, and defends even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Its just a blame game when you don't win championships and your fan base has the expectations that you are close enough to do so. The fact is, both Thibs and the FO have done a wonderful job at putting together a team to compete with the rest of the league given salary cap constraints and the lack of options. Thibs has done a great job with what they given him and brought along some young guys throughout the years that I dont know if many people even believed belonged in the league. The FO picked up talent that they felt would work well with Thib's and he delivered. Its really been a great marriage of the two other than what has gone on behind the scenes. Its really sad that this wont ever play out with a happy ending because I think there were some really great basketball minds and leadership to win at least one with this regime in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 08:33 PM) That is total crap. Explain to me how GarPax were able to turn Jimmy Butler into an all-star? Or able to turn a steady stream of mediocre PG's into useful players on an NBA roster? Or turning Taj Gibson into a guy who would start on a lot of teams? Getting 10 more wins out of a team then most anyone else would is the very definition of over-achieving. From a pure talent standpoint, without a healthy Derrick Rose, this is a mediocre talent team. It is a .500 team, or worse in the modern NBA. very good, actually it is a great point. i am and will always say Thibs is a great coach. but someone can point out, it took a gar/pax to draft them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 09:58 PM) All you have to do is look at the players who have changed teams in the NBA, and know that if the Bulls wanted to, they could have gotten into deals for just about any of them. But they don't. They tied their wagon to Rose. This team has need another star even with pre-surgery Rose... they still haven't gotten it done. i agree again, but would you say they also tied their wagon to Noah?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 04:57 PM) Its just a blame game when you don't win championships and your fan base has the expectations that you are close enough to do so. The fact is, both Thibs and the FO have done a wonderful job at putting together a team to compete with the rest of the league given salary cap constraints and the lack of options. Thibs has done a great job with what they given him and brought along some young guys throughout the years that I dont know if many people even believed belonged in the league. The FO picked up talent that they felt would work well with Thib's and he delivered. Its really been a great marriage of the two other than what has gone on behind the scenes. Its really sad that this wont ever play out with a happy ending because I think there were some really great basketball minds and leadership to win at least one with this regime in Chicago. We'll go back to having a spineless coach who gets nothing out of his team. But I am sure Rose will love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 10:57 PM) Its just a blame game when you don't win championships and your fan base has the expectations that you are close enough to do so. The fact is, both Thibs and the FO have done a wonderful job at putting together a team to compete with the rest of the league given salary cap constraints and the lack of options. Thibs has done a great job with what they given him and brought along some young guys throughout the years that I dont know if many people even believed belonged in the league. The FO picked up talent that they felt would work well with Thib's and he delivered. Its really been a great marriage of the two other than what has gone on behind the scenes. Its really sad that this wont ever play out with a happy ending because I think there were some really great basketball minds and leadership to win at least one with this regime in Chicago. nice, i like the post, but let me ask this question, who would you choose to be gone, Thibs or gar/pax or gar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) nice, i like the post, but let me ask this question, who would you choose to be gone, Thibs or gar/pax or gar? I wouldnt choose either. I think they have all excelled in their jobs and have done all that's been asked of them. As I have said before its a damn shame they cant be professional and get over their differences with one another because I think that its all worked well. They haven't won a championship and have had failures in the playoffs but obviously bad luck has been a huge part of that with the injuries. I think after Rose getting injured the next two times after the first shown that we can forget about blaming the injury on Thib's over-working the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 11:10 PM) I wouldnt choose either. I think they have all excelled in their jobs and have done all that's been asked of them. As I have said before its a damn shame they cant be professional and get over their differences with one another because I think that its all worked well. They haven't won a championship and have had failures in the playoffs but obviously bad luck has been a huge part of that with the injuries. I think after Rose getting injured the next two times after the first shown that we can forget about blaming the injury on Thib's over-working the team. i agree, but as it stands now, according to the media, Thibs is the one on the outs, if anything, i would like to keep Thiibs and let Gar walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 10:43 PM) He's had his best player for the playoffs one time and he made it to the ECF and lost to a super team. Thibodeau has had one season where his team didn't have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and they had the #5 seed. If any other Chicago team had their coach lead them to 1st, 1st, 5th and 4th place in their four seasons as coach no one would ever say anything negative. The egos in the FO of the Bulls are ridiculous. Phil Jax vs Jerry Krause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) He's had his best player for the playoffs one time and he made it to the ECF and lost to a super team. Thibodeau has had one season where his team didn't have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and they had the #5 seed. If any other Chicago team had their coach lead them to 1st, 1st, 5th and 4th place in their four seasons as coach no one would ever say anything negative. The egos in the FO of the Bulls are ridiculous. Playoffs matter. Regular season is for the birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 10, 2015 -> 08:03 PM) Playoffs matter. Regular season is for the birds. And you aren't going to win the post season without at least one hall of famer, or multiple superstars, no matter how good of a coach you are. There are a few exceptions, but after the LeBron superfriends crap, they are less and less likely. Already you have to go back to the 2004 Pistons to find a team without a future Hall of Famer on it. I couldnt even tell you the last team before that. Do the Bulls have any future Hall of Famers? How many superstars do they have? Yeah, I am sure that is Thibs fault too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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