2014-2015 NBA thread

[southsider2k5]

I doubt there are many coaches or managers that appreciate meddling from the GM and president of the team. If Hoiberg is going to be a yes man, I hope the Bulls higher ups have GarPax on notice that if the results are the same, it isn't the coach.

 

Pretty much everyone has a boss. When your boss asks you to do something you either acknowledge it or start looking for a new job. You definitely don't go try to publicly embarrass your bosses in as public of a matter as possible.

 

Even taking into account the disaster that the front office of the Bulls has been at times, Thibs got what he earned.

[shipps]

I will laugh out the loudest if Hoiberg declines the job.

[Chisoxfn]

I will laugh out the loudest if Hoiberg declines the job.

That would be bad. I don't want Gentry. I like him as an assistant but don't like getting rid of Tom for Gentry. I can live with Hoiberg as I think he has the "it" charisma. No idea if he can coach or not. Difference between college and pro's is huge, but as long as he doesn't let his ego get in the way and he brings in some good assistants, I am on board with it. To be frank, I don't like very many alternatives outside of Hoiberg.

[Dick Allen]

I think the problem is the Bulls had one of the best front offices in the league at collecting talent and one of the best coaching staffs in the league as well. Blowing both of those up would be the bigger mistake as it would leave you starting 100% from scratch. Clearly this got bad enough that JR, who was one of Tom's staunches advocates, even got off the bandwagon and decided it was time. It seems like the reality was JR would have allowed the issues to continue to go together if things were kept internally better and probably more importantly if the players didn't start to grow weary of Tom.

The player push back is a new thing that has come out in recent days. Considering Thibs was a known goner, I'm going to assume that is just players trying to placate the people who will still be here knowing that Thibs was out anyway. Cowley had an article the other day and he got from a player the exit interview was filled with stuff slamming Thibs. I will agree GarPax/ Thibs probably wasn't going to work anymore, but unless Pau can find another fountain of youth, and all these guys who get hurt every season stop getting hurt, the Mayor is going to bow out of the playoffs in the first or second round.

 

I also think the Mayor to the Bulls is a done deal. I think they are leaking it is not to try to make it appear like this just came up, and everything everyone has heard the last 4 or 5 months is just a coincidence that it came true.

[Dick Allen]

Pretty much everyone has a boss. When your boss asks you to do something you either acknowledge it or start looking for a new job. You definitely don't go try to publicly embarrass your bosses in as public of a matter as possible.

 

Even taking into account the disaster that the front office of the Bulls has been at times, Thibs got what he earned.

That is the popular opinion. The problem is we will never hear the cross examination. I think the slant towards Thibs deserved what he got, including the unnecessary jabs from JR, would be at least more neutral.

[Jenksismyhero]

Great read by Sam Smith:

 

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/samsmith/thi...ry-start-finish

[Chisoxfn]

The player push back is a new thing that has come out in recent days. Considering Thibs was a known goner, I'm going to assume that is just players trying to placate the people who will still be here knowing that Thibs was out anyway. Cowley had an article the other day and he got from a player the exit interview was filled with stuff slamming Thibs. I will agree GarPax/ Thibs probably wasn't going to work anymore, but unless Pau can find another fountain of youth, and all these guys who get hurt every season stop getting hurt, the Mayor is going to bow out of the playoffs in the first or second round.

 

I also think the Mayor to the Bulls is a done deal. I think they are leaking it is not to try to make it appear like this just came up, and everything everyone has heard the last 4 or 5 months is just a coincidence that it came true.

Supposedly Pau had planted a different seed during the season and I think players started to march to a slightly different tune. Not saying Pau didn't like Tom, just that he has been their and won and has a different mindset and is a real leader and I think his opinion was more of a, you need to make it to the playoffs in a position where you are healthy enough to play your best basketball and that wasn't going to happen under Tom's watch. Too much blood had been released by the time the regular season ended. If Pau doesn't come, my presumption is Tom is still the head coach of the Bulls because it was going to take a real veteran (from the outside) who would be able to change some of the internal culture that will also come with getting older.

 

My presumption is if there was one player who wouldn't comment negatively on Tom, it would be Butler and possibly Rose. However, I could have seen similar situations with Noah too, but that might not be the case. Dunleavy is a pro but it isn't like he'd grown up and been developed by Tom so while I can't see him bashing Tom, I also don't see him doing extensive lobbying for a coach either.

[southsider2k5]

That is the popular opinion. The problem is we will never hear the cross examination. I think the slant towards Thibs deserved what he got, including the unnecessary jabs from JR, would be at least more neutral.

 

I am honestly surprised we didn't see more than we did down the stretch. It didn't come out until the day that Thibs was canned that he lost the locker room down the stretch, even though people like us were talking about it at various points during the season, with the way that the team would just seem to not care against bad teams they should have been blowing out but were losing to. They could have made things look much worse of Thibs if they wanted. Pretty much the only thing the team was was in answer to Van Gundy.

[Dick Allen]

The Bulls did fire Doug Collins and that turned out OK, but the rosters are different. I think if the Bulls were a little classier about the dismissal we all knew was happening months ago, it wouldn't bother me so much. Even if they are 100% sure Thibs was feeding stuff to Van Gundy, it isn't hard to take the high road, and they chose the low road.

[Quin]

Coaches should coach. GMs should GM. That's how I see it. The Bulls PR department is doing a good job making Thibs the bad guy here, but if he was so horrible and played guys too much, why did he last 5 seasons? Why did he get a very lucrative contract extension which still has 2 years to go? You yourself are using a quote from a writer that stated he never got any info from Thibs as proof Thibs gave him info. Isn't it at least slightly possible the Van Gundy comments weren't coming from Thibs? He was speaking from common knowledge. We all knew the stories. The fact is GarPax hasn't yet shown they are any better at their jobs than the guys they fired. I hope someone with the Bulls realizes that.

 

He lasted five seasons because he got the most out of the team for three of them, two of which he didn't have Rose and three playoffs without Rose. He got a lucrative deal because it looked like he would learn from his flaws, get his healthy Roster and curbstomp the East.

 

But he was a risk to the players' healths. We as fans know that. It's why the minute restriction got put in place.

 

There was no reason for Derick to still be in that 76ers game. For Noah to be in meaningless games while noticeably hurt at the end of last year. Deng. Jimmy. Pau for entire quarters.

 

If you think Isola never got things from Thibs, you're wrong. You're not friends with a source and don't "hear things". Thibs might never have come out and said something exactly, but he almost certainly gave Isola leads. Example A: Isola knows stuff about the Bulls coaching staff that Chicago beat writers didn't.

 

If Van Gundy was speaking from just common knowledge, then he sadly doomed is friend.

 

GarPax put together a team that should have won this year. The problem is that Thibs' drill instructor message finally wore out on the players. Yes the FO resigned Kirk, but they also signed Moore who showed plenty. Snell was being jerked around left and right. So was Mirotic. McDermott looked good to start the year, had a few cold spells, then really never saw the floor. Noah and Kirk were overplayed. Once it was evident that Noah's knee wasn't as functional, a change should have been made.

 

This year Thibs failed. He had the roster he could use to win. Injuries hit it, but this team didn't have the fire of his past teams from the start.

 

Remember the players-meeting? Pax suggested that after Thibs scheduled an unscheduled practice as means to punish the players. He stopped talking to Pax after that, but the Bulls looked like a better team after that meeting.

 

This reeks of Kenny vs. Ozzie all over again and like last time, the person whose close friends/family went to the media to roast the organization lost Reinsdorf's trust.

[Balta1701]

2010-11: Bulls (101.6 ORtg, 16 GP), Mavericks (110.1 ORtg, 21 GP)

 

2012-13: Bulls (99.4 ORtg, 12 GP), Heat (107.7 ORtg, 23 GP)

 

2013-14: Bulls (100.4 ORtg, 5 GP), Spurs (112.7 ORtg, 23 GP)

 

2014-15: Bulls (100.5 ORtg, 12 GP), Cavaliers (108.6 ORtg, 14 GP) and Warriors (107.3 ORtg, 15 GP)

 

Now, when looking exclusively at the 2012-13 Chicago team and this year's, there's but one point difference in production between them. You're telling me that a roster depending on Nate Robinson for points was basically the same as the one depending on Jimmy Butler and Pau Gasol? That kind of puts things in perspective. All told, there's not a whole lot of nuance when you're using the words 'Tom Thibodeau' and 'playoff offense' in a discussion. There's just not.

 

Ouch. I like the piece in general...but I read that and winced. Ouch.

[Quin]

Supposedly Pau had planted a different seed during the season and I think players started to march to a slightly different tune. Not saying Pau didn't like Tom, just that he has been their and won and has a different mindset and is a real leader and I think his opinion was more of a, you need to make it to the playoffs in a position where you are healthy enough to play your best basketball and that wasn't going to happen under Tom's watch. Too much blood had been released by the time the regular season ended. If Pau doesn't come, my presumption is Tom is still the head coach of the Bulls because it was going to take a real veteran (from the outside) who would be able to change some of the internal culture that will also come with getting older.

 

My presumption is if there was one player who wouldn't comment negatively on Tom, it would be Butler and possibly Rose. However, I could have seen similar situations with Noah too, but that might not be the case. Dunleavy is a pro but it isn't like he'd grown up and been developed by Tom so while I can't see him bashing Tom, I also don't see him doing extensive lobbying for a coach either.

 

Three starters said they'd avoid the Advocate Center if Thibs were here this summer.

 

My guess is Pau, Butler and Noah.

 

The Bulls did fire Doug Collins and that turned out OK, but the rosters are different. I think if the Bulls were a little classier about the dismissal we all knew was happening months ago, it wouldn't bother me so much. Even if they are 100% sure Thibs was feeding stuff to Van Gundy, it isn't hard to take the high road, and they chose the low road.

 

I'll give you that. They didn't take the high road, but Reinsdorf's press release had the tone of a hurt father. He clearly felt betrayed by Thibs. It wasn't as bad as Gilbert's letter to LeBron, but in the heat of the moment Reinsdorf foolishly let his emotions get the better of him.

 

 

[Rowand44]

There was no reason for Derick to still be in that 76ers game.

Every coach in the NBA has him in there. This is really an unfair criticism of Thibs that he's received since that moment.

[Dick Allen]

It will be interesting to see how efficient an offense based on launching 3s is with DRose "feeling it".

 

Really, how many guys on the Bulls roster other than perhaps McBuckets, and Dunleavy if he is even back, do you really think can hit 3s with much consistency?

[bmags]

It's amazing that Thibs would leak things to the media. The bulls org certainly didn't try that at all. Nor would they ever openly shop the coach and flaunt his replacement. What a terrible person he is to betray them. They have had great working relationships with 4 previous coaches, why couldn't he make it work?

[Dick Allen]

It's amazing that Thibs would leak things to the media. The bulls org certainly didn't try that at all. Nor would they ever openly shop the coach and flaunt his replacement. What a terrible person he is to betray them. They have had great working relationships with 4 previous coaches, why couldn't he make it work?

It's funny some people actually buy that.

 

The one thing about Van Gundy's comments that one game was what he said was absolutely true. He probably didn't need to bring up Tyrus Thomas/LeMarcus Aldridge.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

It will be interesting to see how efficient an offense based on launching 3s is with DRose "feeling it".

 

Really, how many guys on the Bulls roster other than perhaps McBuckets, and Dunleavy if he is even back, do you really think can hit 3s with much consistency?

 

My least favorite part of Thibs offense was his reliance on movement and screens to get his 3pt shooters open rather than effective movement on cutters and drives to find the open 3 pt shooter.

 

Too much of Korver/Dunleavy/what was first tried for McD was them running around screens to get an open shot while rest of offense watched. That set them up for moving shots rather than what you see with Lebron where people just wait on the line waiting to get the ball and are set.

[Chisoxfn]

It will be interesting to see how efficient an offense based on launching 3s is with DRose "feeling it".

 

Really, how many guys on the Bulls roster other than perhaps McBuckets, and Dunleavy if he is even back, do you really think can hit 3s with much consistency?

Nik should. He struggled at times this year due to being winded, etc, but he should be a good 3 point shooter. Brooks is as well (not sure if he will be back).

[Dick Allen]

Nik should. He struggled at times this year due to being winded, etc, but he should be a good 3 point shooter. Brooks is as well (not sure if he will be back).

I forgot about Mirotic. He and McBuckets were working out at the gym I go to before the draft last year, doing drills. McBuckets did one were he was running around cones, acting like he was working off of screens, and they would pass him the ball at the 3 point line and he hit about 20 in a row at one point. Last season was a disaster for him, but I think he has some talent. I didn't see Mirotic until I was leaving in an elevator and I happened to have a black thermal shirt on with a Bulls emblem. I noticed this guy with Real Madrid shorts, but didn't recognize him because of the beard. I've always question NBA and college player listed heights because I am a shade under 6'6" and I stood next to guys listed 6'8" and have been looking them straight in the eye, but Niko is legitimately very tall. He said goodbye to me in the elevator. Probably because of my shirt.

[2nd_city_saint787]

It will be interesting to see how efficient an offense based on launching 3s is with DRose "feeling it".

 

Really, how many guys on the Bulls roster other than perhaps McBuckets, and Dunleavy if he is even back, do you really think can hit 3s with much consistency?

 

Snell looks like he could be good beyond the arc if given the time. 17 for 34 in the summer league, then 37% in regular games. I really think Snell could emerge next year, hopefully getting some good minutes between the 2 and the 3.

 

Really hoping they can get Wes Matthews in here to be the starting 2 guard.

Edited May 29, 2015 by scs787

[Dick Allen]

There should be free conversation and those conversations should remain private. Thibs must have leaked this:

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

[southsider2k5]

Wade might become a free agent again this summer. I am sure he will be the next to pass up the Bulls.

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-his-departure/

[bmags]

Wade is going to cleveland.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Wade might become a free agent again this summer. I am sure he will be the next to pass up the Bulls.

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-his-departure/

 

I think I'd pass anyway. I don't think the Bulls are gonna clear enough money for him. I think Noah would be a good fit in Hoibergs offense.

 

I really just want Wes Matthews.

Edited May 29, 2015 by scs787

[bmags]

I have a hard time imagining anything different about the bulls except 1 more rookie. I think PG is basically guaranteed in draft.