2014-2015 NBA thread

[LDF]

He might not do better than Thibs in the short term, but in the long run, I could see him being a better coach for this team than Thibs.

 

For as good as a coach Thibs was, he had his flaws, and I think we would always be good with Thibs, we just won't get over the hump with him. You may not get a better coach with Hoiberg immediately, but at least you get one that should get along with the FO and won't cause any off court distractions.

 

P.S. definite no to Van Gundy or Larry Brown. They aren't upgrades to Thibs both in the short term and long term.

 

the problems with the FO just magnified everything that went wrong with the bulls. the key to that is injuries to key players.

[Brian]

None of those win percentages mean squat unless you get to the Finals and then win. One appearance in the ECF.

 

Thibbs is a good coach. I have no problem with him. But the Thibs army is amusing.

[Dick Allen]

None of those win percentages mean squat unless you get to the Finals and then win. One appearance in the ECF.

 

Thibbs is a good coach. I have no problem with him. But the Thibs army is amusing.

I guess I am part of the Thibs army, but the real problem I had was not with the Bulls dismissing him, although I don't think they will be a better team because of it, it was how it was done. The hatchet job the day of the firing was over the top, but they, the guys who have been crying about leaks, have been leaking crap for months. Players in their exit interviews want to avoid Thibs, this must have come from Thibs. So and so leaked this and that, whether that is true or not we will never know. What we do know is Gar Forman's quotes during the press conference announcing the dismissal and the press conference naming the Mayor was full of lies. I hope the Mayor wins 75 next year, but if players keep getting injured, like Noah did before Thibs was around, who are they going to blame?

[caulfield12]

I guess I am part of the Thibs army, but the real problem I had was not with the Bulls dismissing him, although I don't think they will be a better team because of it, it was how it was done. The hatchet job the day of the firing was over the top, but they, the guys who have been crying about leaks, have been leaking crap for months. Players in their exit interviews want to avoid Thibs, this must have come from Thibs. So and so leaked this and that, whether that is true or not we will never know. What we do know is Gar Forman's quotes during the press conference announcing the dismissal and the press conference naming the Mayor was full of lies. I hope the Mayor wins 75 next year, but if players keep getting injured, like Noah did before Thibs was around, who are they going to blame?

 

 

Robin Ventura, Rick Hahn or KW.

[Rowand44]

It is funny how the Bulls smear campaign organized months ago vs Thibs has been successful. Even thiugh he coached without his best player more than half the games during his tenure, he has a.top 5 all time winning percentage. His offense is old, horrible etc. yet somehow it was top 10 in efficiency with guys like Aaron Brooks and Kirk Hinrich getting decent minutes. He ran players into the ground, yet the only 2 with real heavy minutes were Pau, having his best season in years, and Jimmy Buckets, who somehow overcame being run into the ground last year and this to be voted the leagues most improved player. Maybe Thibs had to go, but there is no basketball reason that needed to happen. The hatchet job started stealthfully months ago, and kept on continuing. Just the other day i heard a media member slammimg Thibs for playing Noah 40 minutes a night on one leg. He played 40 minutes in 2 games this year. One was OT, one was double OT. The total lack of class the Bulls organization showed will bite them in the ass one day. I hope the Mayor succeeds, but I doubt he will squeeze more wins out of the team if the players reamin the same and Rose plays less than half the time.

And yet, absolutely nothing to show for it. There is nobody here who doesn't think Thibs was a good basketball coach but especially after this postseason it was time to move on. I have absolutely no clue of Hoiberg is the right replacement choice but I do know that Thibs wasnt winning a championship here with this group of core players, that alone is enough to get rid of him imo.

[Rowand44]

I guess I am part of the Thibs army, but the real problem I had was not with the Bulls dismissing him, although I don't think they will be a better team because of it, it was how it was done. The hatchet job the day of the firing was over the top, but they, the guys who have been crying about leaks, have been leaking crap for months. Players in their exit interviews want to avoid Thibs, this must have come from Thibs. So and so leaked this and that, whether that is true or not we will never know. What we do know is Gar Forman's quotes during the press conference announcing the dismissal and the press conference naming the Mayor was full of lies. I hope the Mayor wins 75 next year, but if players keep getting injured, like Noah did before Thibs was around, who are they going to blame?

I do agree that management handled this in a piss poor fashion though. You're 100 percent correct on that.

[Soxbadger]

It is funny how the Bulls smear campaign organized months ago vs Thibs has been successful. Even thiugh he coached without his best player more than half the games during his tenure, he has a.top 5 all time winning percentage. His offense is old, horrible etc. yet somehow it was top 10 in efficiency with guys like Aaron Brooks and Kirk Hinrich getting decent minutes. He ran players into the ground, yet the only 2 with real heavy minutes were Pau, having his best season in years, and Jimmy Buckets, who somehow overcame being run into the ground last year and this to be voted the leagues most improved player. Maybe Thibs had to go, but there is no basketball reason that needed to happen. The hatchet job started stealthfully months ago, and kept on continuing. Just the other day i heard a media member slammimg Thibs for playing Noah 40 minutes a night on one leg. He played 40 minutes in 2 games this year. One was OT, one was double OT. The total lack of class the Bulls organization showed will bite them in the ass one day. I hope the Mayor succeeds, but I doubt he will squeeze more wins out of the team if the players reamin the same and Rose plays less than half the time.

 

Yes there was a basketball reason. I posted about the problem with Thibs for years on this board. This wasnt "a few months ago", years ago I said that Thibs was a taskmaster coach and coaches like that rarely win the entire thing. Here are the posts:

 

Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:19 PM

 

I like Thibs, but I sometimes wonder if hes more Doug Collins than Phil Jackson.

 

 

 

post Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:58 PM

 

Doug Collins may have won 1, but I dont know if he would have won 6. Thats the point, task master coaches wear on guys and while they often can get more out of less to begin with, they can also eventually wear on people and that sometimes results in getting less out of more.

 

And my statement was "sometimes I wonder" not exactly extremely critical.

 

-----------------------------------

 

The bottom line is not once in Thibs career did he overachieve in the playoffs. Blame injuries, blame whatever, but after 5 years of underachieving when it counted, something had to give. The Cleveland series was a repeat of the first Bulls-Heat series. Bulls win game 1, the other team makes adjustments, the Bulls dont.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes there was a basketball reason. I posted about the problem with Thibs for years on this board. This wasnt "a few months ago", years ago I said that Thibs was a taskmaster coach and coaches like that rarely win the entire thing. Here are the posts:

 

Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:19 PM

 

I like Thibs, but I sometimes wonder if hes more Doug Collins than Phil Jackson.

 

 

 

post Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:58 PM

 

Doug Collins may have won 1, but I dont know if he would have won 6. Thats the point, task master coaches wear on guys and while they often can get more out of less to begin with, they can also eventually wear on people and that sometimes results in getting less out of more.

 

And my statement was "sometimes I wonder" not exactly extremely critical.

 

-----------------------------------

 

The bottom line is not once in Thibs career did he overachieve in the playoffs. Blame injuries, blame whatever, but after 5 years of underachieving when it counted, something had to give. The Cleveland series was a repeat of the first Bulls-Heat series. Bulls win game 1, the other team makes adjustments, the Bulls dont.

 

They overachieved when they beat the Nets. I think you gotta give him that. They won without Rose, without Deng and with Noah suffering badly.

[Dick Allen]

Yes there was a basketball reason. I posted about the problem with Thibs for years on this board. This wasnt "a few months ago", years ago I said that Thibs was a taskmaster coach and coaches like that rarely win the entire thing. Here are the posts:

 

Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:19 PM

 

I like Thibs, but I sometimes wonder if hes more Doug Collins than Phil Jackson.

 

 

 

post Feb 3, 2012 -> 12:58 PM

 

Doug Collins may have won 1, but I dont know if he would have won 6. Thats the point, task master coaches wear on guys and while they often can get more out of less to begin with, they can also eventually wear on people and that sometimes results in getting less out of more.

 

And my statement was "sometimes I wonder" not exactly extremely critical.

 

-----------------------------------

 

The bottom line is not once in Thibs career did he overachieve in the playoffs. Blame injuries, blame whatever, but after 5 years of underachieving when it counted, something had to give. The Cleveland series was a repeat of the first Bulls-Heat series. Bulls win game 1, the other team makes adjustments, the Bulls dont.

Phil Jackson rode his players hard, and they practiced very hard. If Thibs is Collins and Hoiberg is Phil, now all we need is Michael and Scottie. Yes, he's a little more Zen-like, a lot more unconventional. Taj Gibson, one guy they are trying to pin all his injuries on Thibs, loved him. Rose loved him. I read something where Phil used to pick on Horace Grant on purpose because he was very popular with his teammates and they would rally around him. Horace hated it, but apparently it worked. There was no need for the JR press release. There was no need for GarPax to say anything more than they appreciate what Thibs did, it was time to move on. To me there are 2 factors. Obviously both sides hated each other. The second factor is, they can't beat LeBron. They won't be able to really shake up their core for a year or 2, so Hoiberg is their way to try something else. There is no need to leak the offense was horrible, because it wasn't. There was no need to leak the players wanted Thibs out. Cowley got a player BEFORE that came out and the player said GarPax spent the exit interview slamming Thibs. It will be interesting to see how Hoiberg transistions to the NBA. I do know one thing, if this is basically the roster, they won't beat Cleveland next year either.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Hard for me to point the finger, he clearly wore out his welcome. But Thibs big year would have been 11 when we had a top 5 offense and top 5 defense, then it derailed when Rose blew his knee out.

 

His coaching job in 14? When we were sure they were going to tank (they were awful, awful in late dec/jan), and he pulls out a high point offense with Noah leading the way midway through the season? That was incredible coaching. That team was not good.

 

This was his big year and the team certainly didn't mesh. That's on him. But his lack of title success, we did not have title teams. If he had scott brooks team, i'd like to see what he did.

 

When you look back at those teams, it's like when you look back in 06 when we thought we had a championship team because we signed Ben Wallace. The talent is not there.

[LDF]

Phil Jackson rode his players hard, and they practiced very hard. If Thibs is Collins and Hoiberg is Phil, now all we need is Michael and Scottie. Yes, he's a little more Zen-like, a lot more unconventional. Taj Gibson, one guy they are trying to pin all his injuries on Thibs, loved him. Rose loved him. I read something where Phil used to pick on Horace Grant on purpose because he was very popular with his teammates and they would rally around him. Horace hated it, but apparently it worked. There was no need for the JR press release. There was no need for GarPax to say anything more than they appreciate what Thibs did, it was time to move on. To me there are 2 factors. Obviously both sides hated each other. The second factor is, they can't beat LeBron. They won't be able to really shake up their core for a year or 2, so Hoiberg is their way to try something else. There is no need to leak the offense was horrible, because it wasn't. There was no need to leak the players wanted Thibs out. Cowley got a player BEFORE that came out and the player said GarPax spent the exit interview slamming Thibs. It will be interesting to see how Hoiberg transistions to the NBA. I do know one thing, if this is basically the roster, they won't beat Cleveland next year either.

 

what a low class so and so, garpax is for doing this. really classless act.

 

btw, nice find.

[southsider2k5]

Hard for me to point the finger, he clearly wore out his welcome. But Thibs big year would have been 11 when we had a top 5 offense and top 5 defense, then it derailed when Rose blew his knee out.

 

His coaching job in 14? When we were sure they were going to tank (they were awful, awful in late dec/jan), and he pulls out a high point offense with Noah leading the way midway through the season? That was incredible coaching. That team was not good.

 

This was his big year and the team certainly didn't mesh. That's on him. But his lack of title success, we did not have title teams. If he had scott brooks team, i'd like to see what he did.

 

When you look back at those teams, it's like when you look back in 06 when we thought we had a championship team because we signed Ben Wallace. The talent is not there.

 

 

This is well done. I agree with almost all of it.

[2nd_city_saint787]

If there was really beef between the FO and Thibs, one of em had to go, period. We can say the wrong people went, which could be true, but something had to be done. It's really that simple to me.

 

The relationship between GM and Head Coach is being over looked.

Edited June 4, 2015 by scs787

[Soxbadger]

Phil Jackson rode his players hard, and they practiced very hard. If Thibs is Collins and Hoiberg is Phil, now all we need is Michael and Scottie. Yes, he's a little more Zen-like, a lot more unconventional. Taj Gibson, one guy they are trying to pin all his injuries on Thibs, loved him. Rose loved him. I read something where Phil used to pick on Horace Grant on purpose because he was very popular with his teammates and they would rally around him. Horace hated it, but apparently it worked. There was no need for the JR press release. There was no need for GarPax to say anything more than they appreciate what Thibs did, it was time to move on. To me there are 2 factors. Obviously both sides hated each other. The second factor is, they can't beat LeBron. They won't be able to really shake up their core for a year or 2, so Hoiberg is their way to try something else. There is no need to leak the offense was horrible, because it wasn't. There was no need to leak the players wanted Thibs out. Cowley got a player BEFORE that came out and the player said GarPax spent the exit interview slamming Thibs. It will be interesting to see how Hoiberg transistions to the NBA. I do know one thing, if this is basically the roster, they won't beat Cleveland next year either.

 

I dont care about the press release. I am strictly talking about the performance of the coach. Right or wrong, many believed the Bulls have had a lot of talent the last 5 years. Eventually when that doesnt pan out, someone has to be held responsible. I personally think that with another coach than Thibs the Bulls would have done considerably better in the playoffs the last 5 years. But that is merely speculation and based on that speculation I can absolutely understand why they fired him.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

Phil Jackson rode his players hard, and they practiced very hard. If Thibs is Collins and Hoiberg is Phil, now all we need is Michael and Scottie. Yes, he's a little more Zen-like, a lot more unconventional. Taj Gibson, one guy they are trying to pin all his injuries on Thibs, loved him. Rose loved him. I read something where Phil used to pick on Horace Grant on purpose because he was very popular with his teammates and they would rally around him. Horace hated it, but apparently it worked. There was no need for the JR press release. There was no need for GarPax to say anything more than they appreciate what Thibs did, it was time to move on. To me there are 2 factors. Obviously both sides hated each other. The second factor is, they can't beat LeBron. They won't be able to really shake up their core for a year or 2, so Hoiberg is their way to try something else. There is no need to leak the offense was horrible, because it wasn't. There was no need to leak the players wanted Thibs out. Cowley got a player BEFORE that came out and the player said GarPax spent the exit interview slamming Thibs. It will be interesting to see how Hoiberg transistions to the NBA. I do know one thing, if this is basically the roster, they won't beat Cleveland next year either.

 

The press release was all about Van Gundy, and their belief that Thibs put him up to it. If it wasn't for that, I firmly believe the press release would have been as vanilla as all of the rest of them have been.

[Dick Allen]

The press release was all about Van Gundy, and their belief that Thibs put him up to it. If it wasn't for that, I firmly believe the press release would have been as vanilla as all of the rest of them have been.

That very well may be true, and maybe Thibs did put him up to it. But it would seem that would be Van Gundy going rogue. One thing we do know, there was a lot of truth in what Van Gundy said. A lot more truth than what was coming out of Gar's mouth the day they let Thibs go.

[LDF]

That very well may be true, and maybe Thibs did put him up to it. But it would seem that would be Van Gundy going rogue. One thing we do know, there was a lot of truth in what Van Gundy said. A lot more truth than what was coming out of Gar's mouth the day they let Thibs go.

 

the problem is, this is nothing but rumors, about Van Gundy. so unless there is proof and not speculation, the bulls should have done it classy.

 

how ever in a month, it would be over.

[Dick Allen]

the problem is, this is nothing but rumors, about Van Gundy. so unless there is proof and not speculation, the bulls should have done it classy.

 

how ever in a month, it would be over.

I do agree. They should have taken the high road regardless. Hopefully, Hoiberg can become the Mayor of Chicago.

[southsider2k5]

That very well may be true, and maybe Thibs did put him up to it. But it would seem that would be Van Gundy going rogue. One thing we do know, there was a lot of truth in what Van Gundy said. A lot more truth than what was coming out of Gar's mouth the day they let Thibs go.

 

If that is the standard, there is a lot of truth in what Jerry said too.

[Dick Allen]

If that is the standard, there is a lot of truth in what Jerry said too.

But it also ignores the fact that the guys he is sticking with were, at the very least, doing the same thing. They should have just let it go.

 

Maybe something good comes out of this and GarPax will be more scrutinized by the press. I am no fan of Cowley, and he probably just ruined his career as a Bulls beatwriter, but he did have the nerve to ask the Mayor how he could trust GarPax after what they did to VDN and Thibs.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

But it also ignores the fact that the guys he is sticking with were, at the very least, doing the same thing.

 

In the exact same manner you did.

[Kyyle23]

JVG is like that friend you have that talks s*** to the biggest guy in the bar and starts a fight because the guy bumped into you and spilled your drink. He did Tom no favors at all, and by many accounts made the situation worse by taking JR off of Thibs allies list. He could have waited to say the things he said

[Balta1701]

It is funny how the Bulls smear campaign organized months ago vs Thibs has been successful. Even thiugh he coached without his best player more than half the games during his tenure, he has a.top 5 all time winning percentage. His offense is old, horrible etc. yet somehow it was top 10 in efficiency with guys like Aaron Brooks and Kirk Hinrich getting decent minutes. He ran players into the ground, yet the only 2 with real heavy minutes were Pau, having his best season in years, and Jimmy Buckets, who somehow overcame being run into the ground last year and this to be voted the leagues most improved player. Maybe Thibs had to go, but there is no basketball reason that needed to happen. The hatchet job started stealthfully months ago, and kept on continuing. Just the other day i heard a media member slammimg Thibs for playing Noah 40 minutes a night on one leg. He played 40 minutes in 2 games this year. One was OT, one was double OT. The total lack of class the Bulls organization showed will bite them in the ass one day. I hope the Mayor succeeds, but I doubt he will squeeze more wins out of the team if the players reamin the same and Rose plays less than half the time.

If we're discussing strictly whether Thibs was an effective basketball coach and deserved to go based on that, I agree with much of this, particularly the discussions of Thibs getting the most out of his players in the injury depleted years. However, the 2014-2015 season convinced me on basketball grounds that it was time to cut the cord, particularly due to the poor offensive performance.

 

The Cleveland series was an example of this - the offense was simply outgunned, between Hinrich playing so many minutes, Mirotic and others falling out of the rotation until Thibs was forced to put them in, and the long point droughts that became inexcusable.

 

The Cleveland series highlighted it, but a couple weeks ago I posted this absolutely remarkable stat - the Bulls had a much better roster right now than in 2012 when little nate was running the point, as you said Gasol had his best year, Rose was back, Butler, Mirotic, and yet despite all that the Bulls 2014-2015 offense was basically exactly as effective (within 1 point) as the 2012 offense led by Nate. Thibs can get the most out of players when the roster has a bunch of holes, but when he's set up with a roster that could actually do damage, he got in his own way.

 

 

I guess I am part of the Thibs army, but the real problem I had was not with the Bulls dismissing him, although I don't think they will be a better team because of it, it was how it was done. The hatchet job the day of the firing was over the top, but they, the guys who have been crying about leaks, have been leaking crap for months. Players in their exit interviews want to avoid Thibs, this must have come from Thibs. So and so leaked this and that, whether that is true or not we will never know. What we do know is Gar Forman's quotes during the press conference announcing the dismissal and the press conference naming the Mayor was full of lies. I hope the Mayor wins 75 next year, but if players keep getting injured, like Noah did before Thibs was around, who are they going to blame?

However on the 2nd point...this part I cannot disagree with.

[Dick Allen]

In the exact same manner you did.

Not really. First off, we really don't know if Thibs gave Van Gundy info and told him to run with it. Secondly, even if he did, it would have been in response to leaked info that we all heard. The beginning of the slam Thibs campaign.

[LDF]

But it also ignores the fact that the guys he is sticking with were, at the very least, doing the same thing. They should have just let it go.

 

Maybe something good comes out of this and GarPax will be more scrutinized by the press. I am no fan of Cowley, and he probably just ruined his career as a Bulls beatwriter, but he did have the nerve to ask the Mayor how he could trust GarPax after what they did to VDN and Thibs.

 

does it really matter what they will say. all that matters is what the owner think.