2014-2015 NBA thread

[MexSoxFan#1]

Players are allowed to do what they want. Front offices are not. There is a clear distinction there. Welcome to the NBA.

I have a hard time believing Riley wasn't aware of Wade colluding with LeBron and Bosh.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I have a hard time believing Riley wasn't aware of Wade colluding with LeBron and Bosh.

I am 100% sure he knew EXACTLY what was going on. but there is no way to prove it unless there are emails or internal memos. If there are, they they are complete idiots. No paper trail = no evidence. And, it's happening all again.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Athomeboy_2000

[Chisoxfn]

Which is still a violation of the rules.

Yeah but extremely hard to prove that it was agreed to.

[bmags]

The Heat did this and nothing happened to them.

 

But we are all angry about it and claim it was unfair.

[Chisoxfn]

Meanwhile we are all cheering on Noah to collude.

Noah isn't colluding. He is talking to other players on his own doing. Bulls haven't done any back door negotiating with their players, etc, which is what this is in reference to. I think what is going on in Miami right now is extremely different then what happened back in 2010.

[Chisoxfn]

I have a hard time believing Riley wasn't aware of Wade colluding with LeBron and Bosh.

I don't even think it is illegal for Riley to tell Wade (who was under contract) what his current plans were and the fact that the club was working on making a push. Wade could have came and said all kinds of stuff and probably still wouldn't have been illegal. Wade acted in his own interest based upon information available to him. Presuming no contract figures were discussed / passed along, it was presumably completely legal. Not sure what is wrong with that. In this case, this would be FO and players (all under contract) coluding to opt out and take less money on prearranged deals. Much different scenario, imo, and very much illegal per the terms of the CBA.

[MexSoxFan#1]

But we are all angry about it and claim it was unfair.

If the league isn't going to do anything about that, then we'd be dumbasses if we don't do it.

[southsider2k5]

I am 100% sure he knew EXACTLY what was going on. but there is no way to prove it unless there are emails or internal memos. If there are, they they are complete idiots. No paper trail = no evidence. And, it's happening all again.

 

Bingo.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Noah isn't colluding. He is talking to other players on his own doing. Bulls haven't done any back door negotiating with their players, etc, which is what this is in reference to. I think what is going on in Miami right now is extremely different then what happened back in 2010.

 

 

You don't think the Bulls knew months ago that Carmelo may be interested and how much it would cost? They may not have told Noah to start recruiting but they knew it was happening. Everyone thinks that the Heat thing was orchestrated by Pat Riley. People give that old bastard too much credit. LBJ, Wade, and Bosh decided to play together long before they knew it'd be in Miami.

[Dick Allen]

I'm sure every team bends the rules a little bit. At the very least, teams and agents have middle men. How is it, if the Bulls could not talk to Melo, they had a meeting set up for him for today, last week?

[Chisoxfn]

You don't think the Bulls knew months ago that Carmelo may be interested and how much it would cost? They may not have told Noah to start recruiting but they knew it was happening. Everyone thinks that the Heat thing was orchestrated by Pat Riley. People give that old bastard too much credit. LBJ, Wade, and Bosh decided to play together long before they knew it'd be in Miami.

I think Melo and Noah have talked and Noah passed that info to his employers. That is not illegal and what the Heat did in 2010 was not illegal. That is not what i am discussing. It is smart and I agree, to an extent, with what you are saying about Riley (however, the fact that he has won numerous championships as a coach added to the credibility / allure of Miami). Miami was just the perfect place to do it (and helps that no state income tax).

 

What the rumors are regarding this off-seasons Heat plans are illegal as it involves predetermined contract refinements which are illegal per the terms of the CBA. I am sure Heat / Players will be smart and have their visits, etc, to lead people to believe they at least considered leaving, thus reducing potential fact that it was a total inside deal and everything had already been agreed to with Heat.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I don't even think it is illegal for Riley to tell Wade (who was under contract) what his current plans were and the fact that the club was working on making a push. Wade could have came and said all kinds of stuff and probably still wouldn't have been illegal. Wade acted in his own interest based upon information available to him. Presuming no contract figures were discussed / passed along, it was presumably completely legal. Not sure what is wrong with that. In this case, this would be FO and players (all under contract) coluding to opt out and take less money on prearranged deals. Much different scenario, imo, and very much illegal per the terms of the CBA.

I'm no expert on the CBA but I thought you couldn't talk to another player (LeBeta) who was under contract with another team? Isn't that tampering?

[Chisoxfn]

I'm no expert on the CBA but I thought you couldn't talk to another player (LeBeta) who was under contract with another team? Isn't that tampering?

Who is talking to them? Noah is talking to Melo. That isn't being done by the front office. Noah couldn't go to the player and say I talked to Pax and Bulls are going to offer this. He can say hey, you should come to Chicago, we can definitely find a way to make that happen. We have a great team and you'll push us over the top and you'll have a blast and be forever loved in Chicago. lets do this.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm no expert on the CBA but I thought you couldn't talk to another player (LeBeta) who was under contract with another team? Isn't that tampering?

And Miami didn't do that. Wade talked to Lebron and Bosh knowing that Riley could find a way to make it happen but rather acted independently. No offers, etc, would have been exchanged. That would be against the rules. Wade could just generally say, I'm sure Riley could make something happen, just look at the numbers, if this that and that, bam, there is enough money to go around. Nothing in the NBA about players doing this sort of stuff. Maybe that happens with the new CBA but not in the current one.

[Chisoxfn]

I think Ben Gordon will be signing a minimum deal with the Bulls during free agency.

[Chisoxfn]

Bulls apparently tried at one point to trade up for their 2nd round pick, Bairstow. Also reports that other teams tried to buy him from the Bulls with some pretty significant offers. I think he's got a chance to be one of those 2nd round picks who makes it. I think a lot of people slept on him because he was a late bloomber at a less prime time school. Guy put in a lot of work (went from 210 to 240) and seems to have an NBA body as well as some nifty moves around the basket. Also supposedly a very PHYSICAL player which goes into our style. Seems like a Thibbs type pick. Not expecting a lot of minutes from him but think he's got a chance to be a solid rotational player in time.

[Jake]

I thought teams could go over the salary cap (e.g. go into luxury tax) as long as it's re-signing their own players. Or am I completely crazy? Is this not the same situation with the Heat?

 

Example: They sign several free agents from other teams before the re-sign LBJ, Wade, and Bosh. Then it doesn't matter where they sit in regards to the salary cap because they can go over it as long as they pay luxury tax. So all of them could still get max deals, right? They would just end up paying like $100M in luxury tax.

 

Your salary cap figure includes "cap holds" for free agents at roughly the amount they earned last year, with the exception of rookies where a rougher estimate is used. You have to renounce their Bird rights in order to use the cap space those players' cap holds occupy if you want to sign someone else.

 

Why can Melo make more on the max than him? They have the same years of service.

 

I don't remember specifically, but does this have something to do with previous earnings under old CBA?

 

I think the Heat thing is going to be very interesting. If these guys come back, you are going to probably have a lot of teams asking the commissioner to step in. Below are some interesting snippets from Wojo (best NBA reporter in the biz as far as I'm concerned). It would be one thing if Wade truly takes less money but if they all sign for these "reported" deals, you wonder what amounts of "circumstantial" evidence would be needed to get the league to pull a CP3 veto attempt. The other question is whether it would be for the good of the league to try and block said superteam (kind of like they did with CP3 and the Lakers).

 

Of course, another could argue that having a "thorn team" could actually be good for the league, as long as other teams have legit shots at upending them.

 

I can't believe that it's a violation of the rule to ask the front office what kind of free agent value you'd have. Obviously, that's pretty damn close to coming to a gentleman's agreement on a contract.

 

I think Ben Gordon will be signing a minimum deal with the Bulls during free agency.

 

It makes some sense, though I have to think he'd make Thibodeau's head explode

[Dick Allen]

According to the NY Post, Melo thinks losing Taj in a sign and trade would be defeating the purpose.

[southsider2k5]

I'm sure every team bends the rules a little bit. At the very least, teams and agents have middle men. How is it, if the Bulls could not talk to Melo, they had a meeting set up for him for today, last week?

 

Because there is a difference between scheduling a visit and contract negotiations?

[bmags]

This is SOOO bulls front office:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/19663/

 

This is the reason they get so much s***.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Bulls apparently tried at one point to trade up for their 2nd round pick, Bairstow. Also reports that other teams tried to buy him from the Bulls with some pretty significant offers. I think he's got a chance to be one of those 2nd round picks who makes it. I think a lot of people slept on him because he was a late bloomber at a less prime time school. Guy put in a lot of work (went from 210 to 240) and seems to have an NBA body as well as some nifty moves around the basket. Also supposedly a very PHYSICAL player which goes into our style. Seems like a Thibbs type pick. Not expecting a lot of minutes from him but think he's got a chance to be a solid rotational player in time.

The Spurs would make him into a contributing player on a title team

[Jake]

This is SOOO bulls front office:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/19663/

 

This is the reason they get so much s***.

 

This just sounds like a reporter grasping for straws.

 

[MexSoxFan#1]

I know alot of you guys are hopeful about Melo joining the Bulls, I'm not. IMO, Melo cares more about money than titles. He isn't going anywhere and he'll get the max in NY. I'm not hating on him, I just don't believe he'll leave money on the table for a shot at a championship.

[maggsmaggs]

According to the NY Post, Melo thinks losing Taj in a sign and trade would be defeating the purpose.

That I suppose is a solid sign that it is more than just money this go-around for Melo.

[southsider2k5]

Rose is going to help pitch Melo.

 

Good for Derrick!

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baske...0,3121099.story