2014-2015 NBA thread

[Buehrle>Wood]

He played a partial season and that was on a hurt foot. If he played in the tournament, had no character flaws and didn't trash his program on the way out he gets drafted. It absolutely had a ton to do with why he wasn't drafted. And KU has head and shoulders a better draft record than Illinois does. Maybe the next head coach will play it up after Groce gets canned but it won't do much if anything. KU is a premier bball program.

 

You're just making the point for me. You listed all the reasons he didn't get drafted. Improper benefits are not enough to hold nba teams from drafting him.

 

[RockRaines]

You're just making the point for me. You listed all the reasons he didn't get drafted. Improper benefits are not enough to hold nba teams from drafting him.

Not playing in the tournament, character flaws and trashing the program were all from the improper benefits. So if your point was to agree with me then yes I've made it for you.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Just to add to my point, Mudiay played in China and still had enough eyes on him to go in the lotto. Euros often stopped getting played by their teams once their intentions of going overseas are known. A lower rated freshman than Cliff who tore his acl still went in the first round.

 

Improper benefits didn't make Cliff go undrafted. Cliff made Cliff go undrafted.

[RockRaines]

Just to add to my point, Mudiay played in China and still had enough eyes on him to go in the lotto. Euros often stopped getting played by their teams once their intentions of going overseas are known. A lower rated freshman than Cliff who tore his acl still went in the first round.

 

Improper benefits didn't make Cliff go undrafted. Cliff made Cliff go undrafted.

Cliff and his family taking improper benefits and not playing when it counted was why he wasn't drafted. So yes. Cliff's bad decisions are why he wasn't drafted. Which had nothing to do with KU. And the original point was it being ammo against KU, which it isn't.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Cliff and his family taking improper benefits and not playing when it counted was why he wasn't drafted. So yes. Cliff's bad decisions are why he wasn't drafted. Which had nothing to do with KU. And the original point was it being ammo against KU, which it isn't.

It will absolutely be used as ammo against KU, fair or not. Delusional if you think otherwise. Illinois or anyone doesn't even have to say a word. Mac Irvin already blowing up on twitter about it. Whether it amounts to anything against Kansas for other programs, time will tell.

 

And when he played has nothing to do with it, still. The nba finds talent. It doesn't give a s*** when you played or for who. Again, a Syracuse freshman with a torn acl went in the first round. They didn't care thay he didn't play in the tournament or whatever. What mattered is that he looked good when he did play, and was an idiot when talking to teams. Cliff can't say the same.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Buehrle>Wood

[southsider2k5]

Ah the LA daily news. Ripe with reports of Chicago basketball.

 

Sad to say, but outside of Chicago is a better place to get good info on Chicago sports. Most sports reporters here want to protect their relationship with ownership too much to publish something that will upset the franchise.

[Boogua]

Cliff and his family taking improper benefits and not playing when it counted was why he wasn't drafted. So yes. Cliff's bad decisions are why he wasn't drafted. Which had nothing to do with KU. And the original point was it being ammo against KU, which it isn't.

Cliff averaged 7 and 5 and played 17 minutes per game. I'm going to guess that he would have had better numbers and more minutes with Illinois.

 

When is the last time Self had a one and done big guy? The high low he runs seems to take a bit for big men to get used to.

[RockRaines]

It will absolutely be used as ammo against KU, fair or not. Delusional if you think otherwise. Illinois or anyone doesn't even have to say a word. Mac Irvin already blowing up on twitter about it. Whether it amounts to anything against Kansas for other programs, time will tell.

 

And when he played has nothing to do with it, still. The nba finds talent. It doesn't give a s*** when you played or for who. Again, a Syracuse freshman with a torn acl went in the first round. They didn't care thay he didn't play in the tournament or whatever. What mattered is that he looked good when he did play, and was an idiot when talking to teams. Cliff can't say the same.

Yet every previous post you made put all the issues on Cliff. Illinois fans will never be called delusional when it comes to Cliff Alexander, they are totally level headed. Good luck recruiting against KU with this new "ammo" I'm sure it will pay off in spades.

[RockRaines]

Cliff averaged 7 and 5 and played 17 minutes per game. I'm going to guess that he would have had better numbers and more minutes with Illinois.

 

When is the last time Self had a one and done big guy? The high low he runs seems to take a bit for big men to get used to.

Maybe the new ILL coach will be a one and done making machine especially with big men. That would help.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Yet every previous post you made put all the issues on Cliff. Illinois fans will never be called delusional when it comes to Cliff Alexander, they are totally level headed. Good luck recruiting against KU with this new "ammo" I'm sure it will pay off in spades.

Call me delusional all you want. I'd just like you to refute any points I've made, which you cant.

 

I dont know that it'll payoff for Illinois specifically. But it should help everyone else going up against Kansas. Just the 2nd time in 11 years a top 5 recruit goes undrafted. Failure of epic proportions there.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Buehrle>Wood

[RockRaines]

Call me delusional all you want. I'd just like you to refute any points I've made, which you cant.

 

I dont know that it'll payoff for Illinois specifically. But it should help everyone else going up against Kansas. Just the 2nd time in 11 years a top 5 recruit goes undrafted. Failure of epic proportions there.

You haven't made any points to refute my original point so why even try? We both agree it was Cliffs fault he wasn't drafted. I haven't seen anything else of substance in your posts other than wishful thinking that somehow this brings KU back from the level of a premier basketball recruiting power.

[Jenksismyhero]

So if Butler is set on becoming a FA and leaving, what if the Bulls do a trade for Melo? Butler for a year, Noah/Taj and some throw ins like Snell or Moore, maybe even a draft pick? NY is giving up a lot, but they're also getting out of that contract.

[RockRaines]

Sad to say, but outside of Chicago is a better place to get good info on Chicago sports. Most sports reporters here want to protect their relationship with ownership too much to publish something that will upset the franchise.

Seems strange it completely contradicts one of the best NBA insiders reports though.

[southsider2k5]

Seems strange it completely contradicts one of the best NBA insiders reports though.

 

Only if you don't apply larger context to it. He wants out of Chicago, but he is willing to resign here for a year or two so he can get to LA under the HUGE jump in cap space coming down the pipeline. Taken together it makes sense.

 

Now I will say I don't know that I believe it, but it doesn't contradict.

[Boogua]

Maybe the new ILL coach will be a one and done making machine especially with big men. That would help.

Okay? Most times the #2 player in the class plays more than 17 MPG and is a one and done. I guess I'm just not being level headed or something.

[chw42]

Or he's using LA as leverage so he can get a shorter extension from the Bulls. It'd be 3 years as opposed to 5.

[Chisoxfn]

Bottom line, with Butler it doesn't matter now. He has no choice but to sign with the Bulls so its all a moot point. We control where he goes and that is a beautiful thing. He might not be happy with Chicago now, but he wants his money and he's going to put in the work and Hoiberg will have his time to show Jimmy why he should stay in Chicago (as will the rest of the front office and the teams performance). All of this nonsense is just talk and speculation. I'll get worried about stuff like this when he is truly a year away. Reality is, the shortest deal he could get is with the Bulls and IIRC, if he signs an offer sheet from someone else, it basically means we have him at least 3 years (and just match that) cause any other teams offer sheet has to contain at least 3 guaranteed years (presuming the Bulls do all the right things in terms of qualifying offers to make and their is no reason they wouldn't).

[RockRaines]

Okay? Most times the #2 player in the class plays more than 17 MPG and is a one and done. I guess I'm just not being level headed or something.

He was injured. But let's all take our annual "Illinois is good, no it's not" debate to the NCAA thread where it belongs. Cool?

[RockRaines]

Only if you don't apply larger context to it. He wants out of Chicago, but he is willing to resign here for a year or two so he can get to LA under the HUGE jump in cap space coming down the pipeline. Taken together it makes sense.

 

Now I will say I don't know that I believe it, but it doesn't contradict.

That could make sense. Why LA though?

[Dick Allen]

It will absolutely be used as ammo against KU, fair or not. Delusional if you think otherwise. Illinois or anyone doesn't even have to say a word. Mac Irvin already blowing up on twitter about it. Whether it amounts to anything against Kansas for other programs, time will tell.

 

And when he played has nothing to do with it, still. The nba finds talent. It doesn't give a s*** when you played or for who. Again, a Syracuse freshman with a torn acl went in the first round. They didn't care thay he didn't play in the tournament or whatever. What mattered is that he looked good when he did play, and was an idiot when talking to teams. Cliff can't say the same.

They can use it as ammo, but the problem Illinois has is it is still Kansas and Bill Self, and they are Illinois and John Groce so it won't matter until Groce actually gets one of these one and dones and has success.

[Jenksismyhero]

Bottom line, with Butler it doesn't matter now. He has no choice but to sign with the Bulls so its all a moot point. We control where he goes and that is a beautiful thing. He might not be happy with Chicago now, but he wants his money and he's going to put in the work and Hoiberg will have his time to show Jimmy why he should stay in Chicago (as will the rest of the front office and the teams performance). All of this nonsense is just talk and speculation. I'll get worried about stuff like this when he is truly a year away. Reality is, the shortest deal he could get is with the Bulls and IIRC, if he signs an offer sheet from someone else, it basically means we have him at least 3 years (and just match that) cause any other teams offer sheet has to contain at least 3 guaranteed years (presuming the Bulls do all the right things in terms of qualifying offers to make and their is no reason they wouldn't).

 

He's only restricted this year though right? So in reality the Bulls can get him next season for sure, but after that it's a bidding war. We can offer him that extra year, but he doesn't have to take it.

[southsider2k5]

That could make sense. Why LA though?

 

LA is LA. Half of the NBA wants to be there.

[Y2Jimmy0]

He's only restricted this year though right? So in reality the Bulls can get him next season for sure, but after that it's a bidding war. We can offer him that extra year, but he doesn't have to take it.

 

 

The Bulls are the only team that can offer Butler a 1 year deal. So he could take the Bulls 1 year deal and then leave as an UFA next summer. If the Bulls offer him a max, no other team can sign him for less than 3 seasons. And if they do, the Bulls will just match the deal. My guess is, he signs a 3 year $50 million offer sheet and the Bulls match it.

[Chisoxfn]

He's only restricted this year though right? So in reality the Bulls can get him next season for sure, but after that it's a bidding war. We can offer him that extra year, but he doesn't have to take it.

He could choose to just take a Bulls 1 year offer. If he accepts any other teams deal, then we match and he's with us at least 3 years. Reality is he probably works something out with the Bulls for a 4 or 5 year deal with an opt out in 2 years but I don't know if the Bulls are going to play hard ball and see if he really waits and signs for super cheap. If he did sign super cheap this year, might change things as Bulls could find a way to get cap space and be major players and then hope to sign someone else and then you can just pay massive tax and use the bird rights on Jimmy Buckets after you win the title.

 

PS: If Butler and Rose don't get along, Rose is gone. Find a way but Jimmy is the Alpha on this squad. All that said I hope they can both make amends and would think with Rose's personality they probably could.

[Chisoxfn]

LA is LA. Half of the NBA wants to be there.

Yeah and LA is trending upwards. They will have a behemoth of cash and they now have two nice young pieces (Randle / Russell) and another quality 2nd year player in Clarkson. Key being they have a bagillion in cap space after Kobe walks away (and plenty of space now). LA will be serious players in a few years, albeit, some of that is pending the emergence of those young players. Drafting Russel was a major coup cause he'll make everyone better and is probalby the type of guy other "Alpha's" would want to play with.