Buehrle>Wood Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Do we have an idea of the money Butler's offer is actually worth? I haven't been able to find the amount ot even general specifics. Just that it's the first time in nba history someone has gotten a max qualifying offer. I read somewhere it's estimated at 8 million more total if he were to get a max offer next year. Obviously that number would be in the air, but if it's close to that there's no way he's taking the 1 year 4.2 mil qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:54 AM) Do we have an idea of the money Butler's offer is actually worth? I haven't been able to find the amount ot even general specifics. Just that it's the first time in nba history someone has gotten a max qualifying offer. I read somewhere it's estimated at 8 million more total if he were to get a max offer next year. Obviously that number would be in the air, but if it's close to that there's no way he's taking the 1 year 4.2 mil qualifier. If he takes the 5 year deal, I think it's 5 years and $90 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:41 AM) Hold on. That money can't get allocated to those guys. I'd rather just sign Stuckey with my tax payer exception and then have Dunleavy with bird rights and still have Taj. With Noah's knee, we can't afford to deal Taj, imo. Plus Taj is out with an ankle injury anyway so I don't see it. With MDJ / Snell / McBuckets / Butler (and a Stuckey or someone), I am comfortable with our 2 / 3 (plus Niko I'm sure will still get some time at the 3 as well). Then with Hinrich and Stuckey (or whomever else is signed), I'm more comfortable with our back-up PG situation. Whenever I see a Taj trade rumor, I think, why would we downgrade our front court for such a minimal upgrade in the back court. No they can't use the Dunleavy money. I forgot about that. They can go over the cap to sign he and Jimmy because they are their players. They will have the MMLE which they can use on a backup PG. They still need another wing though. They aren't athletic enough. I would trade Taj for another wing. I used Terrance Ross as a possible example. Gibson is overpaid. He's a backup PF that makes almost $9 million per year. I'd much rather trade Noah, but I don't think anyone wants Noah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 LeBron wants Dunleavy, so I want to keep him even more. He's got the shooting, is passable defensively and has a nasty streak in him. We have to remember Hoiberg is our coach, not Thibs. I think we can reasonably expect Noah, Gasol and MDJ's numbers to all go down and for Niko, Snell and McDermott's to go up. Jimmy and Kirk will likely see some reduced time as well to more sane numbers. Use the MMLE on Stuckey, keep Jimmy and MDJ and roll with this: Rose / Stuckey / Moore Butler / Snell / Hinrich Dunleavy / McDermott Taj / Niko / Portis / Bairstow Gasol / Noah Then you just hope the flashes they showed last year are real and that a new coach and system will have a big effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:25 AM) LeBron wants Dunleavy, so I want to keep him even more. He's got the shooting, is passable defensively and has a nasty streak in him. We have to remember Hoiberg is our coach, not Thibs. I think we can reasonably expect Noah, Gasol and MDJ's numbers to all go down and for Niko, Snell and McDermott's to go up. Jimmy and Kirk will likely see some reduced time as well to more sane numbers. Use the MMLE on Stuckey, keep Jimmy and MDJ and roll with this: Rose / Stuckey / Moore Butler / Snell / Hinrich Dunleavy / McDermott Taj / Niko / Portis / Bairstow Gasol / Noah Then you just hope the flashes they showed last year are real and that a new coach and system will have a big effect. They still don't have a backup PG though. Stuckey isn't that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) If he takes the 5 year deal, I think it's 5 years and $90 million. That'd be a helluva lot of money to turn down for a shot at getting $125 over the next 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) They still don't have a backup PG though. Stuckey isn't that guy. Only other realistic MMLE options are Jameer Nelson and MAYBE Mo Williams. Nate Robinson could likely be had, but he's not as fun or good post surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 If Jimmy signs a 5 year max deal, that could turn into a very very good asset and favorable position when the cap balloons and this team goes after Anthony Davis. Reports are that he is now deciding how many years he wants to sign with the Bulls (per Broussard). I presume Bulls might come down to 4 years (or 5 years with a player out after 4). I don't see the Bulls going shorter then that with Jimmy (no matter what he wants) and if Jimmy is going to go shorter, he's going to have to see if he can leverage another team into a signing him to a tender sheet to the terms he wants (and I just don't know if their are teams out their that will do it...although I suppose the upside of having your cap tied up is that you ensure that a guy like Jimmy is a FA in 3 years time vs. longer term). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) That'd be a helluva lot of money to turn down for a shot at getting $125 over the next 6 years. What is the 125 over 6 you are talking about? You also have to add that 6th year to his presumed earnings from Bulls. But if he goes elsewhere, he isn't getting a 6 year deal from anyone. Also, Butler hasn't even made 10M thus far in his career. He's got ~$5M in career earnings. So if he takes the qualifying offer this year, he'd have a guaranteed $10M income stream (in terms of his career) vs. taking the max qualifying offer and being just shy of $100M guaranteed NBA income (counting the $5M he has already made). And you could counter this all by saying he could probably pick up an insurance policy that covered somewhere between $30-$50M of lost earnings but even then, you have a lot of money left on the table and a heck of a lot more downside then upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 @KCJHoop: In all Bulls' contacts with Butler, they've had no indications he wants to be elsewhere. Just matter of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) What is the 125 over 6 you are talking about? You also have to add that 6th year to his presumed earnings from Bulls. But if he goes elsewhere, he isn't getting a 6 year deal from anyone. Also, Butler hasn't even made 10M thus far in his career. He's got ~$5M in career earnings. So if he takes the qualifying offer this year, he'd have a guaranteed $10M income stream (in terms of his career) vs. taking the max qualifying offer and being just shy of $100M guaranteed NBA income (counting the $5M he has already made). And you could counter this all by saying he could probably pick up an insurance policy that covered somewhere between $30-$50M of lost earnings but even then, you have a lot of money left on the table and a heck of a lot more downside then upside. If he were to take $5 million this year, his contract for next year would look something like 5/$120 if he reupped with the bulls, in other words he'd be playing for about $125 million over the next 6 years total, counting the 1 year QO this year and a max deal next offseason. He'd make more money overall, probably, but he'd have to delay another year and he'd be giving up another year of his career when he could be earning a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:36 AM) Only other realistic MMLE options are Jameer Nelson and MAYBE Mo Williams. Nate Robinson could likely be had, but he's not as fun or good post surgery. They are supposedly interested in JJ Barea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:40 AM) If Jimmy signs a 5 year max deal, that could turn into a very very good asset and favorable position when the cap balloons and this team goes after Anthony Davis. Reports are that he is now deciding how many years he wants to sign with the Bulls (per Broussard). I presume Bulls might come down to 4 years (or 5 years with a player out after 4). I don't see the Bulls going shorter then that with Jimmy (no matter what he wants) and if Jimmy is going to go shorter, he's going to have to see if he can leverage another team into a signing him to a tender sheet to the terms he wants (and I just don't know if their are teams out their that will do it...although I suppose the upside of having your cap tied up is that you ensure that a guy like Jimmy is a FA in 3 years time vs. longer term). Whoa, I hadn't heard that. Now we are talking titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 05:44 AM) Am I alone in not really wanting Dunleavy back? Maybe on a one year to work McD into consistent PT but wouldn't be mad if he went elsewhere. I'm with you. He has good games here and there, but he's not some great piece. I'd rather the Bulls play McDermott and find out if he's a legit NBA player and worthy of the picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:57 AM) Whoa, I hadn't heard that. Now we are talking titles. All a pipe dream unless Rose decides to play for less that what he's making now and/or he is no longer in Chicago, although I do agree they should be shooting for that spending flexibility in case Davis is open to coming here. Random PG Butler McDermott Mirotic Davis I could live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) All a pipe dream unless Rose decides to play for less that what he's making now and/or he is no longer in Chicago, although I do agree they should be shooting for that spending flexibility in case Davis is open to coming here. Random PG Butler McDermott Mirotic Davis I could live with that. It is all a moot point. Bulls cap space is all set to be in a great spot when Davis is available. Who knows what could happen in future but he's the one guy I would think we'd be the pure front-runner to get. Either way, I think this team can contend now and leading up to its eventual run at Davis. By the way, I hope the Spurs get Aldridge. I just love how they keep winning and are just such a quality organization. That said, with Aldridge they'll be a really really tough team to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:53 PM) What do you mean by this? QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:54 PM) ???? The least anyone can offer him as a restricted free agent is 2 years. Not one. Then there's this... http://hoopshype.com/2015/06/17/how-the-bu...ler-in-chicago/ There’s a little known clause in the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. It is little known because, as best as can be ascertained, it has never been used. When a player coming off of a rookie scale contract is entering restricted free agency, his team can, in addition to the regular qualifying offer of an amount predetermined by the CBA and his draft spot, extend something called a Maximum Qualifying Offer. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is, essentially, an offer of a maximum contract. It is not a contract – it is an offer. It is not binding on the player. It is not something the player has to accept, or that prevents him from signing contracts with other teams, be they in the NBA or elsewhere. But it is something that impacts upon their options afterwards. In a Maximum Qualifying Offer, there can be no option years whatsoever, nor any bonuses, nor any wiggle room on the salary. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is an offer of the very maximum; the full five years, the full 7.5 percent raises, and a full 100 percent guarantee in each year. It is the most player-friendly contract a team can possibly offer. And that is why it has never been used. If Chicago extends Butler a Maximum Qualifying Offer, nothing will ostensibly change. Butler will remain a free agent, he will remain a restricted free agent on account of the original one year qualifying offer he was extended, and he can still accept that QO. He can also accept the Maximum Qualifying Offer, or indeed sign another type of contract with his incumbent team or any other franchise. He does not even have to sign for the maximum, despite how illogical that might seem. The only difference is the length of the offer sheet he can potentially sign with a new team. If Chicago offers a Maximum Qualifying Offer, an offer sheet with a new team has to have at least the first three years be optionless, as opposed to the first two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Whoa, I hadn't heard that. Now we are talking titles. You misread it. That was talking about Butler. Anthony Davis is not reported to want to come to the Bulls in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) The least anyone can offer him as a restricted free agent is 2 years. Not one. Then there's this... http://hoopshype.com/2015/06/17/how-the-bu...ler-in-chicago/ There’s a little known clause in the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. It is little known because, as best as can be ascertained, it has never been used. When a player coming off of a rookie scale contract is entering restricted free agency, his team can, in addition to the regular qualifying offer of an amount predetermined by the CBA and his draft spot, extend something called a Maximum Qualifying Offer. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is, essentially, an offer of a maximum contract. It is not a contract – it is an offer. It is not binding on the player. It is not something the player has to accept, or that prevents him from signing contracts with other teams, be they in the NBA or elsewhere. But it is something that impacts upon their options afterwards. In a Maximum Qualifying Offer, there can be no option years whatsoever, nor any bonuses, nor any wiggle room on the salary. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is an offer of the very maximum; the full five years, the full 7.5 percent raises, and a full 100 percent guarantee in each year. It is the most player-friendly contract a team can possibly offer. And that is why it has never been used. If Chicago extends Butler a Maximum Qualifying Offer, nothing will ostensibly change. Butler will remain a free agent, he will remain a restricted free agent on account of the original one year qualifying offer he was extended, and he can still accept that QO. He can also accept the Maximum Qualifying Offer, or indeed sign another type of contract with his incumbent team or any other franchise. He does not even have to sign for the maximum, despite how illogical that might seem. The only difference is the length of the offer sheet he can potentially sign with a new team. If Chicago offers a Maximum Qualifying Offer, an offer sheet with a new team has to have at least the first three years be optionless, as opposed to the first two. Steve...you are about a week behind us on this. . Jimmy has a couple options...1, he signs the 1 year qualifying, 2, he accepts the max offer from Bulls, 3, he negotiates something different with Bulls (years, etc), and 4, he signs an offersheet from another team (which the Bulls will match) which is at least 3 years of guaranteed money (no team can offer less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 11:36 AM) The least anyone can offer him as a restricted free agent is 2 years. Not one. Then there's this... http://hoopshype.com/2015/06/17/how-the-bu...ler-in-chicago/ There’s a little known clause in the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. It is little known because, as best as can be ascertained, it has never been used. When a player coming off of a rookie scale contract is entering restricted free agency, his team can, in addition to the regular qualifying offer of an amount predetermined by the CBA and his draft spot, extend something called a Maximum Qualifying Offer. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is, essentially, an offer of a maximum contract. It is not a contract – it is an offer. It is not binding on the player. It is not something the player has to accept, or that prevents him from signing contracts with other teams, be they in the NBA or elsewhere. But it is something that impacts upon their options afterwards. In a Maximum Qualifying Offer, there can be no option years whatsoever, nor any bonuses, nor any wiggle room on the salary. A Maximum Qualifying Offer is an offer of the very maximum; the full five years, the full 7.5 percent raises, and a full 100 percent guarantee in each year. It is the most player-friendly contract a team can possibly offer. And that is why it has never been used. If Chicago extends Butler a Maximum Qualifying Offer, nothing will ostensibly change. Butler will remain a free agent, he will remain a restricted free agent on account of the original one year qualifying offer he was extended, and he can still accept that QO. He can also accept the Maximum Qualifying Offer, or indeed sign another type of contract with his incumbent team or any other franchise. He does not even have to sign for the maximum, despite how illogical that might seem. The only difference is the length of the offer sheet he can potentially sign with a new team. If Chicago offers a Maximum Qualifying Offer, an offer sheet with a new team has to have at least the first three years be optionless, as opposed to the first two. There is a 1 qualifying offer that can and was offered by the Bulls though. I know other teams cant use it but I just assume everyone is talking about the Bulls offer when saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 12:02 PM) All a pipe dream unless Rose decides to play for less that what he's making now and/or he is no longer in Chicago, although I do agree they should be shooting for that spending flexibility in case Davis is open to coming here. Random PG Butler McDermott Mirotic Davis I could live with that. If Davis wants to be here, the options are much better than if we are trying to recruit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) You misread it. That was talking about Butler. Anthony Davis is not reported to want to come to the Bulls in any way. Damn you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if down the road that Love looks at Chicago, knowing how tight he is with Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 05:35 PM) I wouldn't be surprised if down the road that Love looks at Chicago, knowing how tight he is with Fred What's the connection there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Aminu signs with Portland for 4/30. Really Portland have done well to get him, Noah Vonleh and Gerald Henderson for Batum. Cavs and Wizards both after Dunleavy, but Bulls are still the favs to re-sign him. Leonard re-signs with the Spurs for 5/90, not that there was any doubt on that one. Anthony Davis has also verbally agreed to a 5/145 deal according to Woj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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