JJ Putz?

[Andy the Clown]

What is the purpose of acquiring Putz? You can't trade him for anything and he won't be a part of the future.

 

End of thread.

[Feeky Magee]

Who's to say he's done? His peripherals from this year don't indicate any deterioration in his performance from previous years, years in which he's been a very effective pitcher. There's been a plethora of players giving value to clubs at age 38+.

 

At the moment our bullpen contains Scott Carroll, who is a career minor league player and striking out less than 4 per 9, and Scott Downs, who is actually older than Putz, and probably needs to be DFA at some point to avoid paying him $4.25m next year.

 

There's two players currently in our bullpen who I reckon stand less of a chance contributing to a future than Putz (granted that obviously Putz could not replace Downs and we have Lindstrom and Jones to come back, however trades could be on the cards).

[caulfield12]

Who's to say he's done? His peripherals from this year don't indicate any deterioration in his performance from previous years, years in which he's been a very effective pitcher. There's been a plethora of players giving value to clubs at age 38+.

 

At the moment our bullpen contains Scott Carroll, who is a career minor league player and striking out less than 4 per 9, and Scott Downs, who is actually older than Putz, and probably needs to be DFA at some point to avoid paying him $4.25m next year.

 

There's two players currently in our bullpen who I reckon stand less of a chance contributing to a future than Putz (granted that obviously Putz could not replace Downs and we have Lindstrom and Jones to come back, however trades could be on the cards).

 

 

They can't DFA him unless they want to be on the hook for the rest of this season's salary, which is certainly a strong possibility.

 

But, for next year, they simply have to pay him $250,000 as the buyout to avoid paying the $4.25 million.

[Feeky Magee]

They can't DFA him unless they want to be on the hook for the rest of this season's salary, which is certainly a strong possibility.

 

But, for next year, they simply have to pay him $250,000 as the buyout to avoid paying the $4.25 million.

Ah, hadn't seen there was a buyout. Either way, I'd have Putz over Carroll, for now and the future.

[Dick Allen]

Ah, hadn't seen there was a buyout. Either way, I'd have Putz over Carroll, for now and the future.

Elbow issues last year, elbow issues this year. Father Time catches everyone. He is mediocre at best now, and durability will be another issue. For this season, why bother? Moving on, you can always sign him in the offseason if you must have him.

 

Carroll can go several innings. Putz one at a time.

[Feeky Magee]

Elbow issues last year, elbow issues this year. Father Time catches everyone. He is mediocre at best now, and durability will be another issue. For this season, why bother? Moving on, you can always sign him in the offseason if you must have him.

 

Carroll can go several innings. Putz one at a time.

What evidence is there for him being mediocre at best now? He seems to have transitioned from being an elite reliever to merely a very good one.

 

JJ Putz SIERA:

 

2010 - 2.30

2011 - 2.46

2012 - 2.29

2013 - 3.24

2014 - 3.27

[Dick Allen]

What evidence is there for him being mediocre at best now? He seems to have transitioned from being an elite reliever to merely a very good one.

 

JJ Putz SIERA:

 

2010 - 2.30

2011 - 2.46

2012 - 2.29

2013 - 3.24

2014 - 3.27

If you want to take a SIERA for 13 innings this year, where he is getting knocked around, fine, but then stop giving us updates on how great Surkhamp is, because, well, he sucks.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by Dick Allen

[TaylorStSox]

If you want to take a SIERA for 13 innings this year, where he is getting knocked around, fine, but then stop giving us updates on how great Surkhamp is, because, well, he sucks.

Yeah, but he has like a lot of k's and stuff.

[Andy the Clown]

Let's say Putz is still a very good reliever. What's the point? This year is toast.

[Feeky Magee]

You guys remind me of the Westerosi south of the wall ignoring the carnage about to erupt. Surkamp is coming.

[BlackSox13]

You guys remind me of the Westerosi south of the wall ignoring the carnage about to erupt. Surkamp is coming.

Surkamp is a 26 year old career minor league pitcher that has more hits than innings pitched and a 4.54 ERA to boot. I fail to see why we should be excited. If anything it shows how desperate our pitching staff is need of potential help, any help.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Who's to say he's done? His peripherals from this year don't indicate any deterioration in his performance from previous years, years in which he's been a very effective pitcher. There's been a plethora of players giving value to clubs at age 38+.

 

At the moment our bullpen contains Scott Carroll, who is a career minor league player and striking out less than 4 per 9, and Scott Downs, who is actually older than Putz, and probably needs to be DFA at some point to avoid paying him $4.25m next year.

 

There's two players currently in our bullpen who I reckon stand less of a chance contributing to a future than Putz (granted that obviously Putz could not replace Downs and we have Lindstrom and Jones to come back, however trades could be on the cards).

 

His sub-90 fastball indicates deterioration.

[southsider2k5]

You guys remind me of the Westerosi south of the wall ignoring the carnage about to erupt. Surkamp is coming.

 

If that were the case, he would have already been here. With all of the pitching injuries and problem's this year, if he hasn't been called up yet, that is pretty clear what they think of him.

[Feeky Magee]

I'm mostly being tongue in cheek about Surkamp, I remarked in spring training that he seems to get rocked every time he faces major league opposition. I do however think he'll see some action, probably in place of Rienzo, and do better than people expect.

[southsider2k5]

I'm mostly being tongue in cheek about Surkamp, I remarked in spring training that he seems to get rocked every time he faces major league opposition. I do however think he'll see some action, probably in place of Rienzo, and do better than people expect.

 

Carroll will go back into the rotation before Surkamp.

[Feeky Magee]

Carroll will go back into the rotation before Surkamp.

What's Carroll shown that he's got a better chance of being an acceptable starter than Surkamp? Let's be fair, he's a career minor leaguer who is only up because he happened to have an artificially low AAA ERA when the Sox had a desperate need.

 

2014 at AAA:

Scott Carroll:

5.09 K/9

3.52 BB/9

 

Erik Surkamp:

10.31 K/9

2.09 BB/9

 

[southsider2k5]

What's Carroll shown that he's got a better chance of being an acceptable starter than Surkamp? Let's be fair, he's a career minor leaguer who is only up because he happened to have an artificially low AAA ERA when the Sox had a desperate need.

 

2014 at AAA:

Scott Carroll:

5.09 K/9

3.52 BB/9

 

Erik Surkamp:

10.31 K/9

2.09 BB/9

 

Easy. Carroll is getting batters out at the major league level.

 

The sad thing is that even though the Sox were so desperate, they STILL wouldn't call up Surkamp.

[Feeky Magee]

Easy. Carroll is getting batters out at the major league level.

 

The sad thing is that even though the Sox were so desperate, they STILL wouldn't call up Surkamp.

Well, at the time the Sox needed that person, Surkamp's ERA was (artificially) high.

 

Carroll's peripherals are bad. And in the rotation, which is what we're talking about, he had a 6.20 ERA.

[southsider2k5]

Well, at the time the Sox needed that person, Surkamp's ERA was (artificially) high.

 

Carroll's peripherals are bad. And in the rotation, which is what we're talking about, he had a 6.20 ERA.

 

I have no doubt that they view Surkamp as a 4A player at this point. If they didn't, he would have been here already. Considering all of the moves they have made to bring up pitchers, and to bring in pitchers from outside of the system, they can't view him very highly at all. Those things speak for themselves way more than his numbers do.

[Feeky Magee]

I have no doubt that they view Surkamp as a 4A player at this point. If they didn't, he would have been here already. Considering all of the moves they have made to bring up pitchers, and to bring in pitchers from outside of the system, they can't view him very highly at all. Those things speak for themselves way more than his numbers do.

Like I said, circumstance. Scott Carroll was called up on April 26th, when he had a 1.57 ERA at Charlotte. Surkamp's was over 6 at the time. Noesi had been claimed the day before. Rienzo had been called up a week before. Those were the 3 main moves the White Sox made to bring in/up pitchers and they were all done while Surkamp had a 6+ ERA at AAA. He obviously wasn't going to get the call then. Since then Carroll's performance in the rotation was enough to demote him to the bullpen, and whilst Surkamp's been largely excellent for Charlotte, nobody's been quite bad enough to demote from the rotation.

 

If Rienzo keeps pitching like he has been doing, and Surkamp does too, I think Surkamp should get a couple of his starts before Carroll should. Whether that happens, we'll see.

[southsider2k5]

Like I said, circumstance. Scott Carroll was called up on April 26th, when he had a 1.57 ERA at Charlotte. Surkamp's was over 6 at the time. Noesi had been claimed the day before. Rienzo had been called up a week before. Those were the 3 main moves the White Sox made to bring in/up pitchers and they were all done while Surkamp had a 6+ ERA at AAA. He obviously wasn't going to get the call then. Since then Carroll's performance in the rotation was enough to demote him to the bullpen, and whilst Surkamp's been largely excellent for Charlotte, nobody's been quite bad enough to demote from the rotation.

 

If Rienzo keeps pitching like he has been doing, and Surkamp does too, I think Surkamp should get a couple of his starts before Carroll should. Whether that happens, we'll see.

 

There is no reason he couldn't be called up today. There are also spots in the pen. Our only lefty is Scott Freaking Downs. Javy Guerra was called up not long ago. Carroll is in long relief now. If they thought Surkamp was better, he'd be the teams long man, today. Hell we even signed Henry Rodriguez to a contract.

 

Despite all of this, Eric Surkamp is still in Charlotte.

[Feeky Magee]

There is no reason he couldn't be called up today. There are also spots in the pen. Our only lefty is Scott Freaking Downs. Javy Guerra was called up not long ago. Carroll is in long relief now. If they thought Surkamp was better, he'd be the teams long man, today. Hell we even signed Henry Rodriguez to a contract.

 

Despite all of this, Eric Surkamp is still in Charlotte.

Like I said, nobody from the rotation has been quite so poor to earn demotion yet. If they see Surkamp as a starter, it's pretty normal he's still in AAA. Added to this that if you're just judging by ERA, as this team seems to do quite a bit, Surkamp isn't exactly jumping out as an option just yet. Henry Rodriguez is a reliever signed to a minor-league contract so I'm not sure what relevance he has.

[witesoxfan]

The only reason Scott Carroll is on the roster right now is because he's the 25th man, he doesn't pitch in important games, and he's not pitching poorly.

 

JJ Putz is not the answer, but if the Sox had the opportunity to add a good young pitcher right now, they'd get rid of Carroll in a second.

[southsider2k5]

Like I said, nobody from the rotation has been quite so poor to earn demotion yet. If they see Surkamp as a starter, it's pretty normal he's still in AAA. Added to this that if you're just judging by ERA, as this team seems to do quite a bit, Surkamp isn't exactly jumping out as an option just yet. Henry Rodriguez is a reliever signed to a minor-league contract so I'm not sure what relevance he has.

 

If they saw Surkamp as a starter, he would have been here during the desperation moments when we were stretching out relievers, even if it was only for an emergency start.

[Feeky Magee]

If they saw Surkamp as a starter, he would have been here during the desperation moments when we were stretching out relievers, even if it was only for an emergency start.

Did we start a game with a reliever this season? I don't recall one off the top of my head.