6/23/2014 White Sox @ Orioles

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If Flowers wanted a slider right down the middle, that's terrible . No one wants to throw a guy struggling or any guy for that matter a pitch like that. I think that HBP played a big part in what was thrown . Belly had Jones down 1 and 2 and tried to bust him in and hit him. A pitcher needs the confidence to throw inside and jam the guy into hitting into the DP . He didn't want to hit him or walk him so he throws junk up there and the result was predictable. Either he needs to trust his pitches or be taken from the closer's role if he doesn't have the confidence to throw what should be thrown.

 

You got to throw over the middle of the plate in that scenario. Belly isn't good enough to paint the insider upper corner. He threw a strike low, Davis just went down and golfed it out. "Right down the middle" implies it was both over the middle of the plate and just below the belt. It was over the middle of the plate, but just above the knees. I'm not saying it was the right pitch call, which is why I blame Tyler more than I blame Belly for that.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Looking at those two lists, it's intriguing that Matuella is projected as the 2nd pick and didn't even make the other list. Hmmm...

 

Same for Dean and Happ. It could be because B/R is terrible, or it could be because we are so damn far away from the draft that nobody has any idea. I wonder if Daz is considered a consensus top 3 pick though.

[oldsox]

Oh you mean Miguel Cabrera? lol.

 

We all know B/R sucks, but they've done more research than I am willing to do right now, so here is there project top 10 for next years draft.....

 

 

1) CF Daz Cameron - HS (Mike Cameron's son)

2) RHP Michael Matuella - Duke

3) SS Alex Bregman - LSU

4) SS Brendan Rogers - HS

5) LHP Nathan Kirby - Virginia

6) 2B Ian Happ - Cincinnati

7) CF Jahmai Jones - HS

8) OF Kyle Dean - HS

9) SS/3B John Aiello - HS

10) RHP Carson Fulmer - Vanderbilt

 

How come Carlos Rodon is not on that list?

Of those, it sounds like Happ is the best college hitter, and Kyle Dean is the best prep hitter. Dean apparently has monster-raw power due to exceptional bat speed, and a big arm to play RF. 8th overall is definitely a spot this team could land in.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

By the way, we are currently in the 6-8 spot. Obviously 11 1/2 months away from the draft, but that would mean Happ or Dean at this point.

That list is beyond meaningless right now so throwing any names out or trying to predict what pick the Sox get is pointless.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That list is beyond meaningless right now so throwing any names out or trying to predict what pick the Sox get is pointless.

 

Thanks for your input.

[flavum]

5 down. 6 to go. They almost had an 0-10 road trip last year.

[caulfield12]

Once Tampa starts trading their players, they're going to be in good position for a top 1 or 2 pick. The Cubs will likely be in the same range if they trade a few of their starting pitchers. Padres are likely another top 5 worst record. Outside of that, it's up for grabs.

 

 

What are some of the rumors about the returns they're looking for Arrieta, Golden Domer/Prince Valiant and Hammel?

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rays-bp-again...56316--mlb.html

Maybe the Rays or Sox will sign her for the back of their rotation as a publicity stunt?

[greg775]

I have a feeling next year is going to be a very, very different team on the field. You look at the 25 man roster, and it seems like a lot of guys who are on the roster only due to injury/ineffectiveness (Noesi, Rienzo, Carroll, Sierra) or it's their last year to show what they can do/contract expires (ADA, Flowers, Dunn, Konerko). I'm excited to see more "core" guys added between now and the start of next season.

It's embarrassing that a big market franchise like Chicago is in this position with so many horrible players considering you can, uh, sign free agents if you wish.

To have Bella as a major league closer is an embarrassment to the game. The Sox are a last place team. It was a pure miracle these guys were over .500 for a couple months. Our front office has a ton of work to do. It doesn't help that Garcia is out for the year, of course. We probably should be thankful as fans there was average to decent baseball for about eight weeks.

Edited June 24, 2014 by greg775

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thanks for your input.

Sorry that game put me in a sour mood and you're doing exactly what I said would be done in the game thread starter if the Sox kept losing and I hate it. We just finished drafting .Can we at least wait until the next HS and college seasons start before we get all excited about our next draft ? The 2 guys you listed as the 6th/8th picks (Happ and Dean) aren't even on the top 20 of the list caulfield put up.

[fathom]

What are some of the rumors about the returns they're looking for Arrieta, Golden Domer/Prince Valiant and Hammel?

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rays-bp-again...56316--mlb.html

Maybe the Rays or Sox will sign her for the back of their rotation as a publicity stunt?

 

For Samardzija, the rumor has been they asked for Hutchison and Sanchez (or Stroman) from Toronto. They've also set their sights on Bundy, Gausman or Harvey from Baltimore. I don't think they're looking to trade Arrieta. Hammel has been linked to a few teams, especially the Mariners.

[fathom]

It's embarrassing that a big market franchise like Chicago is in this position with so many horrible players considering you can, uh, sign free agents if you wish.

To have Bella as a major league closer is an embarrassment to the game. The Sox are a last place team. It was a pure miracle these guys were over .500 for a couple months. Our front office has a ton of work to do. It doesn't help that Garcia is out for the year, of course. We probably should be thankful as fans there was average to decent baseball for about eight weeks.

 

The injuries have absolutely caught up with the Sox. Severe regression after a hot start to Flowers, Alexei and Viciedo hasn't helped.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

You got to throw over the middle of the plate in that scenario. Belly isn't good enough to paint the insider upper corner. He threw a strike low, Davis just went down and golfed it out. "Right down the middle" implies it was both over the middle of the plate and just below the belt. It was over the middle of the plate, but just above the knees. I'm not saying it was the right pitch call, which is why I blame Tyler more than I blame Belly for that.

No , no you do not have to throw a pitch right down the middle in that scenario . You don't have to throw a pitch right down the middle in any scenario in a close game or if you're up by 4 or 5 runs and a HR is hit and you still have the lead. Right down the middle doesn't imply anything except it was a really good hitters pitch. Weather it was just below the knees or the upper strike zone doesn't matter. The middle of the plate is where hitters feast. Stone was saying Davis is a low ball hitter and has to be pitched high with that uppercut swing So any high heat or 2 seamer in on the hands has to be thrown. Has to. If you walk or hit the guy so what. Start all over with the next hitter. You're still ahead and still can get out of the inning with a DP.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sorry that game put me in a sour mood and you're doing exactly what I said would be done in the game thread starter if the Sox kept losing and I hate it. We just finished drafting .Can we at least wait until the next HS and college seasons start before we get all excited about our next draft ? The 2 guys you listed as the 6th/8th picks (Happ and Dean) aren't even on the top 20 of the list caulfield put up.

 

I'm sorry you feel this way.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

No , no you do not have to throw a pitch right down the middle in that scenario . You don't have to throw a pitch right down the middle in any scenario in a close game or if you're up by 4 or 5 runs and a HR is hit and you still have the lead. Right down the middle doesn't imply anything except it was a really good hitters pitch. Weather it was just below the knees or the upper strike zone doesn't matter. The middle of the plate is where hitters feast. Stone was saying Davis is a low ball hitter and has to be pitched high with that uppercut swing So any high heat or 2 seamer in on the hands has to be thrown. Has to. If you walk or hit the guy so what. Start all over with the next hitter. You're still ahead and still can get out of the inning with a DP.

 

Sounds like we are both blaming Tyler Flowers here.......

[BigHurt3515]

Sounds like we are both blaming Tyler Flowers here.......

 

He should always be to blame!!

[greg775]

The injuries have absolutely caught up with the Sox. Severe regression after a hot start to Flowers, Alexei and Viciedo hasn't helped.

 

Great post.

I'm not a big fan of Lindstrom and/or Nate, but both arguably are better than the hacks remaining in our bullpen. Downs, Bella, even Webb, who I also am not a big fan of. I haven't seen a ton of Putnam in games I've watched.

Losing A. Garcia's bat is a killer because of the reason you mentioned. Also Eaton was out a while meaning we had to play yet another player who isn't big-league caliber for a while.

Still, I'd think a big market team like Chicago could build a better roster. This is our second year finishing last. Wonder how many years we are going to be cellar-dwellers in this 'rebuild.' The Sox can't call it a 'retool' anymore. Not when you're finishing dead last.

Edited June 24, 2014 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Great post.

I'm not a big fan of Lindstrom and/or Nate, but both arguably are better than the hacks remaining in our bullpen. Downs, Bella, even Webb, who I also am not a big fan of. I haven't seen a ton of Putnam in games I've watched.

Losing A. Garcia's bat is a killer because of the reason you mentioned. Also Eaton was out a while meaning we had to play yet another player who isn't big-league caliber for a while.

Still, I'd think a big market team like Chicago could build a better roster. This is our second year finishing last. Wonder how many years we are going to be cellar-dwellers in this 'rebuild.' The Sox can't call it a 'retool' anymore. Not when you're finishing dead last.

 

 

If the payroll continues to be low, they'll still be profitable...but it's going to be a vicious circle in terms of losing more and more season ticket holders, sponsors falling to the wayside/advertising rate declines for broadcasts.

 

The Royals, Pirates and Blue Jays have gone through nearly 20 year stretches without making the playoffs, for example. Of course, the White Sox would survive, but it would be very bleak...like the mid to late 80's and late 90's. Thankfully, we have two superstars and potentially another to build around in Rodon.

 

Putnam has been one of the more pleasant surprises this entire season, along with Noesi (compared to expectations), Abreu (if you can call him a surprise) and Alexei's play the first 2 months.

 

 

As far as the article fathom linked to, they mentioned adding veteran bullpen pieces, but that's exactly what Hahn did do this offseason. We brought in Belisario and Downs, and kept Lindstrom. And of course Nate Jones went down to injury. One of the things that KW was most criticized for was overspending on Dotel and Linebrink before 2008 when middle reliever values were at a peak, fwiw.

 

We're not going to be winning more than 75-80 games with Addison Reed anyway, but a 7/11 save conversion rate just won't cut it, even if one of those was caused by lapses behind him defensively. When I looked up the stat of total blown saves, we're right in the middle of the major leagues, after starting out terribly the first 2-3 weeks. That said, there obviously haven't been as many opportunities to blow saves when you've lost 7 in a row on the road, 8 consecutive to AL Central opponents, and every single Saturday game this season. (Of course, traditionally, the Fireworks night games on Saturdays were the most well-attended in the last 20-30 years, and it's going to get to the point where fans don't want to even go to those games except because of the nice summer weather or fireworks show, expecting/dreading/predicting another Sox loss).

 

 

Of course, down there in Kansas City, if they don't make the playoffs and inevitably lose Shields, where they just had the optimism/confidence at an all-time high in the middle of that Tigers' 4 game series, it's going to be hard to recover that enthusiasm again anytime soon....with Butler also halfway out the door, there's just not enough offense unless Perez becomes a legit 25 homer guy or Moustakas returns to the form of two seasons ago.

Edited June 24, 2014 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

So, when does Robin's job start to come into question? I'd evaluate in the off-season but what do others think?

[greg775]

If the payroll continues to be low, they'll still be profitable...but it's going to be a vicious circle in terms of losing more and more season ticket holders, sponsors falling to the wayside/advertising rate declines for broadcasts.

 

The Royals, Pirates and Blue Jays have gone through nearly 20 year stretches without making the playoffs, for example. Of course, the White Sox would survive, but it would be very bleak...like the mid to late 80's and late 90's. Thankfully, we have two superstars and potentially another to build around in Rodon.

 

Putnam has been one of the more pleasant surprises this entire season, along with Noesi (compared to expectations), Abreu (if you can call him a surprise) and Alexei's play the first 2 months.

 

 

As far as the article fathom linked to, they mentioned adding veteran bullpen pieces, but that's exactly what Hahn did do this offseason. We brought in Belisario and Downs, and kept Lindstrom. And of course Nate Jones went down to injury. One of the things that KW was most criticized for was overspending on Dotel and Linebrink before 2008 when middle reliever values were at a peak, fwiw.

 

We're not going to be winning more than 75-80 games with Addison Reed anyway, but a 7/11 save conversion rate just won't cut it, even if one of those was caused by lapses behind him defensively. When I looked up the stat of total blown saves, we're right in the middle of the major leagues, after starting out terribly the first 2-3 weeks. That said, there obviously haven't been as many opportunities to blow saves when you've lost 7 in a row on the road, 8 consecutive to AL Central opponents, and every single Saturday game this season. (Of course, traditionally, the Fireworks night games on Saturdays were the most well-attended in the last 20-30 years, and it's going to get to the point where fans don't want to even go to those games except because of the nice summer weather or fireworks show, expecting/dreading/predicting another Sox loss).

 

 

Of course, down there in Kansas City, if they don't make the playoffs and inevitably lose Shields, where they just had the optimism/confidence at an all-time high in the middle of that Tigers' 4 game series, it's going to be hard to recover that enthusiasm again anytime soon....with Butler also halfway out the door, there's just not enough offense unless Perez becomes a legit 25 homer guy or Moustakas returns to the form of two seasons ago.

 

Yep, yep, yep. Can't argue a word. I do wish we had Reed though. Made no sense to trade an adequate to decent closer not yet ready to implode for a couple more seasons when Sox had nothing to replace him with. Nate was not the answer as closer, either. I'll never believe that.

 

[greg775]

So, when does Robin's job start to come into question? I'd evaluate in the off-season but what do others think?

 

Probably never. Seriously.

He's the guinea pig, so to speak, having to manage the team during the years the roster gives it absolutely no chance of competing. If the roster ever becomes contender-worthy, he'll probably be able to get it to .500 at the minimum which would be enough for him to keep his job, IMO. I'd suspect he'll be our manager at least the next 20 years. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to retire young and golf every day while counting the money he earned as a player.

 

He's made some questionable decisions, but don't all managers? We can quibble about his bullpen calls, but the man has one lefty in that pen to work with and that lefty stinks. I doubt he'll ever be fired.

 

p.s. In a perfect world, Buehrle and Peavy would be starting for the MAJOR MARKET team still. I realize Peavy is having an off year thus far.

Edited June 24, 2014 by greg775