Who do you most want to keep after the Core 4?

[caulfield12]

I hope they don't. Semien came up struggled and now he is struggling worse in AAA. Bringing him up in April may have resulted in a lost season. Bring up Micah and Sanchez in September so they get as much time as possible in AAA. At this point in late June, neither one is even playing the same position on a consistent basis. Both have been bounced around although the last week Johnson has been moved to 2nd. But that bumped Sanchez to 3rd and Davidson to the bench.

 

Which makes ZERO sense unless it's only once per week...you don't take a Top 100 prospect at a position where power is at a premium (and you're in the bottom 1/3rd of organizations still) and sit him for players who are more likely to become utility infielders or 4th/5th outfielders.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Reading this thread made me realize how the Sox suck.

[SCCWS]

Which makes ZERO sense unless it's only once per week...you don't take a Top 100 prospect at a position where power is at a premium (and you're in the bottom 1/3rd of organizations still) and sit him for players who are more likely to become utility infielders or 4th/5th outfielders.

 

They continue to use him but he most likely will not be top 100 next year. He strikes out at a 35%+ clip besides hitting below .200. He is over his head in AAA so far.

[caulfield12]

They continue to use him but he most likely will not be top 100 next year. He strikes out at a 35%+ clip besides hitting below .200. He is over his head in AAA so far.

 

 

On the other hand, with power at a premium, and guys like Mike Trout K'ing in the top 10...30-35% is becoming more the new "normal" than 20-25%.

 

He does have a 650 OPS now, which is a huge improvement from where he was a month ago...and is on a pace for around 20-25 homers in a five month season.

 

Nobody's arguing he's that great for the moment, but he's still one of our top hitting/power prospects, especially at the upper two levels of the minors.

[Chicago White Sox]

That was only out of those 2, Sanchez and Johnson. Semien, he may have shown those things but so far this year, it looks like Semien is the one who isn't translating to higher levels.

Lol...Semien was the Southern League MVP last year and currently has a .700 OPS & 93 wRC+ in AAA despite a .200 BABIP, which is more than 100 points below his career average. Given his identical 13.8% BB & K rates, I think he is transitioning just fine, unfortunately luck has not been on his side so far this year.

[Chicago White Sox]

He's not really struggling at AAA, he's only hitting .208 but his BABIP is .203. He's walking as much as he's striking out and he's hitting for decent power.

Wish I would have seen this before I made my post. Oh well.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Lol...I'm kind of wanting to keep Beckham and Gillaspie. Ramirez should net us a good return

[cabiness42]

I listed Beckham, Ramirez, and Gillaspie. I don't think any of them is untradeable if the right offer comes along, but all three of them are hitting significantly above league average for their position. Given how difficult it is to find good defensive infielders who can also hit, it would take a pretty nice offer to get me to part with any of them. I know that the minors is deep in the infield right now, but there's no guarantees that any of those guys can produce like this. If you assume that AGarcia comes back next year and is at least a little bit above average offensively for a RF and Eaton continues to improve, you're really only three spots (LF, C, DH) away from a really good lineup.

 

Dunn is having a good year and I'd like to see him back, but I think that he is exactly the kind of guy that a contending team will overpay for in July and the Sox can't turn that down.

 

There are also three quality starters and three quality bullpen arms (plus Jones coming back next year), so while this team is bad right now it isn't far away from being very strong.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I listed Beckham, Ramirez, and Gillaspie. I don't think any of them is untradeable if the right offer comes along, but all three of them are hitting significantly above league average for their position. Given how difficult it is to find good defensive infielders who can also hit, it would take a pretty nice offer to get me to part with any of them. I know that the minors is deep in the infield right now, but there's no guarantees that any of those guys can produce like this. If you assume that AGarcia comes back next year and is at least a little bit above average offensively for a RF and Eaton continues to improve, you're really only three spots (LF, C, DH) away from a really good lineup.

 

Dunn is having a good year and I'd like to see him back, but I think that he is exactly the kind of guy that a contending team will overpay for in July and the Sox can't turn that down.

 

There are also three quality starters and three quality bullpen arms (plus Jones coming back next year), so while this team is bad right now it isn't far away from being very strong.

 

 

Gillaspie isn't good defensively. Beckham will not be worth what he'll get paid next year, and Alexei is their biggest trade chip. Gillaspie will be here because there's no reason to trade him but the other two will be gone in my opinion.

[cabiness42]

Gillaspie isn't good defensively. Beckham will not be worth what he'll get paid next year, and Alexei is their biggest trade chip. Gillaspie will be here because there's no reason to trade him but the other two will be gone in my opinion.

 

If one of the IF prospects is ready, maybe a Gillaspie/Viciedo DH platoon is the answer once Dunn leaves. Yes, Alexei is the biggest trade chip, but he is also the most difficult to replace. Beckham has a well above average OPS for a 2B along with good defense. That is easily worth what he will make in arb next year unless you are planning on a Marlins-esque payroll.

 

[LDF]

I listed Beckham, Ramirez, and Gillaspie. I don't think any of them is untradeable if the right offer comes along, but all three of them are hitting significantly above league average for their position. Given how difficult it is to find good defensive infielders who can also hit, it would take a pretty nice offer to get me to part with any of them. I know that the minors is deep in the infield right now, but there's no guarantees that any of those guys can produce like this. If you assume that AGarcia comes back next year and is at least a little bit above average offensively for a RF and Eaton continues to improve, you're really only three spots (LF, C, DH) away from a really good lineup.

 

Dunn is having a good year and I'd like to see him back, but I think that he is exactly the kind of guy that a contending team will overpay for in July and the Sox can't turn that down.

 

There are also three quality starters and three quality bullpen arms (plus Jones coming back next year), so while this team is bad right now it isn't far away from being very strong.

 

 

I am a big Dunn fan and really like it when we signed him, now here is my question, what do you call

having a good yr .... stat wise or how do you judge it.

[cabiness42]

I am a big Dunn fan and really like it when we signed him, now here is my question, what do you call

having a good yr .... stat wise or how do you judge it.

 

I am using stats. He has slipped a bit recently but for most of the season his OPS has been in the 800-850 range. That is a good year. Not a great year or even a really good year, but a good year. I also don't see a lot of options to get anything better than .800 out of the DH spot next year, so having Dunn back makes sense if they don't get the kind of deal for him in July that I expect they will.

 

[LDF]

I am using stats. He has slipped a bit recently but for most of the season his OPS has been in the 800-850 range. That is a good year. Not a great year or even a really good year, but a good year. I also don't see a lot of options to get anything better than .800 out of the DH spot next year, so having Dunn back makes sense if they don't get the kind of deal for him in July that I expect they will.

 

I think dunn does a lot more than he is credited for, clubhouse wise. with that, I think this yr is a wash

rebuilding and getting better prospects. dunn coming back at what cost ($$).

 

also there is a lot of swing and misses with a low 200 avg for me.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think dunn does a lot more than he is credited for, clubhouse wise. with that, I think this yr is a wash

rebuilding and getting better prospects. dunn coming back at what cost ($$).

 

also there is a lot of swing and misses with a low 200 avg for me.

 

 

The strikeouts and low batting average don't really matter for him though. I actually wish his batting average was lower and he had more homers.

[LDF]

The strikeouts and low batting average don't really matter for him though. I actually wish his batting average was lower and he had more homers.

 

 

you brought up sometime intersesting...... I am going to need some help here.

 

who helps out your team more .... a player who hit 20-30 hrs, avg 175-225, k about 190 a yr. or a

player who hits 300 avg, hit>k 150 / 70 and less than 10 homers?

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

you brought up sometime intersesting...... I am going to need some help here.

 

who helps out your team more .... a player who hit 20-30 hrs, avg 175-225, k about 190 a yr. or a

player who hits 300 avg, hit>k 150 / 70 and less than 10 homers?

 

This question is why we have linear weights! Just compare those guy's wOBA or wRC+ to see who contributes more.

[LDF]

This question is why we have linear weights! Just compare those guy's wOBA or wRC+ to see who contributes more.

 

 

MAN .... I am old fart who barely knows how to use a stupid cell phone. now you want me to know about

more stats.......... have pity.

[witesoxfan]

This question is why we have linear weights! Just compare those guy's wOBA or wRC+ to see who contributes more.

 

Yes.

 

Those numbers you presented, LDF, leave out a ton of details too. How many times are they walking? How many bases are they stealing? What position are they playing? Do they play good defense? How are their enchiladas? Important stuff like that.

[Eminor3rd]

MAN .... I am old fart who barely knows how to use a stupid cell phone. now you want me to know about

more stats.......... have pity.

 

Essentially, linear weights stats assign a run value to each offensive event based on the average amount of runs it will contribute (based on changes in run expectancy from one base/out state to another). So you should use them in two situations:

 

1. When you want to find out who is more valuable overall when comparing different types of players (just like you asked), and

2. When you want to find out who is more valuable when comparing players ACROSS context. So like if you want to compare Adrian Beltre to Chase Headley, and you know the numbers are going to be off because Texas is a bandbox and Petco kills offense, and plus Adrian Beltre is in a way better lineup for RBIs.

[LDF]

Yes.

 

Those numbers you presented, LDF, leave out a ton of details too. How many times are they walking?

How many bases are they stealing? What position are they playing? Do they play good defense?

How are their enchiladas? Important stuff like that.

 

hmmmm food, now we are talking.

 

there are more to that that I am missing, that is why I asked for help. I couldn't remember the

whole question. I am sorry about that. my old age mind misses many things. this debate happen either on

this site or at the other sox site and it was about Royce clayton vs a better hitting ss.

[witesoxfan]

Jose Valentin was also a better fielding shortstop too.

[LDF]

Essentially, linear weights stats assign a run value to each offensive event based on the average amount of runs it will contribute (based on changes in run expectancy from one base/out state to another). So you should use them in two situations:

 

1. When you want to find out who is more valuable overall when comparing different types of players (just like you asked), and

2. When you want to find out who is more valuable when comparing players ACROSS context. So like if you want to compare Adrian Beltre to Chase Headley, and you know the numbers are going to be off because Texas is a bandbox and Petco kills offense, and plus Adrian Beltre is in a way better lineup for RBIs.

 

uh ????

 

all joking aside, this is a little too much for me. plus I take your young mind and word for it.

 

these new stats and how you young people know them is amazing.

 

good work

[caulfield12]

We better trade Beckham soon before he ends up down in the 240's like Viciedo and with a sub 700 OPS.

[LDF]

We better trade Beckham soon before he ends up down in the 240's like Viciedo and with a sub 700 OPS.

 

its too late ................ the time to have traded him would have been when he was over 300, then 290. now

he is hitting his norm. the return may not be too good.

[Vance Law]

Eaton needs to be a 750ish OPS guy to have the type of major impact we need in the leadoff spot.

 

For the World Series champion 2005 team, Podsednik had an 86 OPS+

 

Eaton is currently sitting on a 105 OPS+