Who do you most want to keep after the Core 4?

[harfman77]

Shields is better than Quintana, and perceived to be MUCH better than Quintana. I would say that is not a realistic return for Quintana.

 

And I wouldn't trade Quintana for the Garza package, which is kind of the major point. Quintana is, essentially, EXACTLY what you hope that one guy in a prospect package turns into. A solidly above average contributor who is young and controllable and open to signing a team-friendly extension, which Quintana has already done. He is the definition of a building block. The chance that we'd end up with multiple guys like that out of a realistic trade package is like 1%, and if you throw in the fact that it pushes the contention window far enough into the future that you will be wasting good years of the other controllable pieces we have now, you have what I think is a completely indefensible trade. It would be cutting off the nose to spite the face. It would be like selling a box of sandwiches for a loaf of bread and some lunchmeat with the idea that if you can come across some condiments down the road, you might end up with a few more sandwiches.

 

Shields is better but he was acquired with two years of control while Q would offer at least 6. You are wasting the years of controllable pieces now and not making the moves to strengthen the roster now only pushes that window in which you can contend back further. I would not trade Q for a Garza package either, but remember that it was for a half season rental with no chance to receive a compensation pick when he left, the point of the Garza deal is that the return was high for the amount of service/expected production that the Rangers received in return. Yes Q is what you want a prospect to turn into, but holding your cards doesn't improve your hand. There are no real options in the system to step into the lineup at C or OF over the next few years. The Sox have struggled to attract quality players in FA over the last 30 years and need to get more talent on the roster somehow. Standing pat with the roster the way it is constructed is what is indefensible. Wasting the years that you have Sale and Abreu under contract. You have to trade valuable assets to get valuable assets in return. Sure we can dump some of the players that are struggling, but they will not bring back much of anything and their replacements are likely worse than they are. RH needs to target teams with a surplus at a position of need, like NYM and Atl at C, and use his assets to help make a deal that makes sense.

 

The Sox as constructed now are basically the Mariners of the last decade, one offensive superstar, a bunch of role players, the best pitcher in the league, a solid two, and some hot garbage. Seattle has struggled to attract FA's the same way the Sox have, and to avoid ending up where the Mariners are now, RH should take action now.

[harfman77]

What have the Jays offered for Samardjzia?

 

The Cubs have asked for Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, and Dalton Pompey, which the Jays have not agreed to up to this point. That's an extreme return as Norris is now considered one of the top LHP's in the minors.

[striker]

1. Gillaspie. I'd rather have defense than offense at 3B, so I don't want him playing there.

2. Ramirez has reached his peak, so I'd sell on him.

3. I can't stand Beckham. I'd rather see Sanchez, Johnson, Semien at 2B.

4. De Aza is on the wrong side of thirty and we only have 1.5 years left of him so I'd sell.

5. Flowers doesn't make enough contact. Don't want him.

6. Viciedo sucks at offense and defense. Don't want him.

 

I'd focus on increasing BB%, decreasing K%, improving defense and improving starting pitching.

 

1. Viciedo for Moustakas. Comparable control time. KC needs offense.

2. Ramirez for Carlos Martinez.

3. Davidson & Beck for Grandal.

4. Dunn & De Aza to Mariners for Carson Smith and Ackley

5. Beckham to NYY for Manny Banuelos

 

CF Eaton

DH Gillaspie

1B Abreu

RF A. Garcia

CA Grandal

2B Sanchez

3B Moustakas

LF Ackley

SS L. Garcia

 

 

SP Sale

SP Shields

SP Quintana

SP E. Johnson/Rondon/Martinez/Banuelos

SP Danks

 

RP Jones

RP Webb

RP Putnam

RP Guerra

RP Carroll

RP Belasario

[chitownsportsfan]

 

1. Viciedo for Moustakas. Comparable control time. KC needs offense.

 

 

Ah yea, his wRC+ of 77 in LF is exactly what they need. Viciedo is a DFA candidate at this point or a 4th OF you sell for a PTBNL and a bag of balls.

[harfman77]

6. Viciedo sucks at offense and defense. Don't want him.

 

1. Viciedo for Moustakas. Comparable control time. KC needs offense.

 

ha

[Eminor3rd]

Shields is better but he was acquired with two years of control while Q would offer at least 6. You are wasting the years of controllable pieces now and not making the moves to strengthen the roster now only pushes that window in which you can contend back further. I would not trade Q for a Garza package either, but remember that it was for a half season rental with no chance to receive a compensation pick when he left, the point of the Garza deal is that the return was high for the amount of service/expected production that the Rangers received in return. Yes Q is what you want a prospect to turn into, but holding your cards doesn't improve your hand. There are no real options in the system to step into the lineup at C or OF over the next few years. The Sox have struggled to attract quality players in FA over the last 30 years and need to get more talent on the roster somehow. Standing pat with the roster the way it is constructed is what is indefensible. Wasting the years that you have Sale and Abreu under contract. You have to trade valuable assets to get valuable assets in return. Sure we can dump some of the players that are struggling, but they will not bring back much of anything and their replacements are likely worse than they are. RH needs to target teams with a surplus at a position of need, like NYM and Atl at C, and use his assets to help make a deal that makes sense.

 

The Sox as constructed now are basically the Mariners of the last decade, one offensive superstar, a bunch of role players, the best pitcher in the league, a solid two, and some hot garbage. Seattle has struggled to attract FA's the same way the Sox have, and to avoid ending up where the Mariners are now, RH should take action now.

 

So you're ready to give up on this rebuild after three months? And the solution is a second rebuild?

 

The Dayton Moore Rebuild™, where a bunch of superhuman prospect classmates all show up to save the day at the exact same time like a Civil War-era cavalry charge, is a fictional ideal. It exists only in dreams. Most of them bust, and most of the rest don't reach their theoretical maximum ceiling, ending up as decent players instead of studs. We must acquire assets that can contribute for several years, lock them up, keep them healthy, and continue to add things to the foundation we have created. If a 25-year old 3-4 fWAR starter with six years of below-market control is NOT a foundational piece, then really, NOTHING is.

 

Also, when the Rays dealt Shields, they were dealing from a position of tremendous depth. Pitching is our biggest weakness at the moment. What would we trade him for? Pitching?

Edited June 27, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[harfman77]

So you're ready to give up on this rebuild after three months? And the solution is a second rebuild?

 

The Dayton Moore Rebuild™, where a bunch of superhuman prospect classmates all show up to save the day at the exact same time like a Civil War-era cavalry charge, is a fictional ideal. It exists only in dreams. Most of them bust, and most of the rest don't reach their theoretical maximum ceiling, ending up as decent players instead of studs. We must acquire assets that can contribute for several years, lock them up, keep them healthy, and continue to add things to the foundation we have created. If a 25-year old 3-4 fWAR starter with six years of below-market control is NOT a foundational piece, then really, NOTHING is.

 

Thats exactly the point. You don't acquire assets by trading off spare parts. Thats great, you can have two really good pitchers and end up in the cellar every year. Yes some bust, most don't meet their ceilings which is why you need to get multiple prospects back to compensate for the risk that you take in dealing an established quality big league player.

 

Give up on the rebuild? More like finish what was started. Last season was a good first step, but with the current make-up of the roster and the lack of impact prospects at positions of need in the farm system mean that we need to make more moves that can help re-shape the roster into being a contender in the near term. 2016 should be the target year to push the chips into making a run, Abreu gets expensive that season and it will give us three more years of the Sale/Abreu combo.

 

I think the Rays depth was certainly overrated then and with Rodon, the long term impact of dealing Q should be mitigated.

Edited June 27, 2014 by IowaSoxFan

[Eminor3rd]

Thats exactly the point. You don't acquire assets by trading off spare parts. Thats great, you can have two really good pitchers and end up in the cellar every year. Yes some bust, most don't meet their ceilings which is why you need to get multiple prospects back to compensate for the risk that you take in dealing an established quality big league player.

 

Give up on the rebuild? More like finish what was started. Last season was a good first step, but with the current make-up of the roster and the lack of impact prospects at positions of need in the farm system mean that we need to make more moves that can help re-shape the roster into being a contender in the near term. 2016 should be the target year to push the chips into making a run, Abreu gets expensive that season and it will give us three more years of the Sale/Abreu combo.

 

I think the Rays depth was certainly overrated then and with Rodon, the long term impact of dealing Q should be mitigated.

 

If 2016 is your year, you need Quintana more than a couple guys that are 2-4 years from making an impact. This only works if all the prospects develop into exactly what you want in exactly the amount of time you want them to. Which will never happen.

 

The guy you trade is Alexei. He's 32. Good now, not that likely to be good in two years.

[Jerksticks]

I too think Alexei is the only player that could really fetch us a few serious pieces. I love him, shortstop is hard to fill, but he's just too old and at absolute peak value. Trade him yesterday for a stud RH starter.

[flavum]

I too think Alexei is the only player that could really fetch us a few serious pieces. I love him, shortstop is hard to fill, but he's just too old and at absolute peak value. Trade him yesterday for a stud RH starter.

 

We need Alexei to get hot for a few weeks. I'm hoping he and Beckham are gone in five weeks, but wouldn't be surprised if the Sox got nothing done before the non-waiver deadline.

[caulfield12]

Some of the more interesting names on the market right now (among the hitters) are Cuddyer, Willingham, Seth Smith, Gerardo Parra and Ben Zobrist.

 

Also, Nolan Reimold's about to be released by the Orioles. Career .766 OPS, unfortunately not left-handed. 29 years old.

[GGajewski18]

Some of the more interesting names on the market right now (among the hitters) are Cuddyer, Willingham, Seth Smith, Gerardo Parra and Ben Zobrist.

 

Also, Nolan Reimold's about to be released by the Orioles. Career .766 OPS, unfortunately not left-handed. 29 years old.

 

Cuddyer is on the 60 day DL.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm not trading Q. No way. We NEED pitching. Trading him only makes it worse.

[caulfield12]

Things have changed a lot in the past few weeks.

 

 

 

Beckham, Ramirez and Dunn are all slumping pretty badly, with Dunn rumored to have an injured hand/wrist according to DJ...who was wondering why he was even playing in Saturday's game. DeAza's value has essentially been driven down to nothing by his putrid results the first two months of the season.

 

A lot of the value that we could have gotten out of Putnam and Belisario has also been wiped out by their each being forced into the closer's role. Nobody has succeeded in the 9th, so the idea of flipping Lindstrom/Jones/Belisario and now Putnam in July is pretty much dead.

 

This comes on top of the failure to get anything of significance for Floyd and Crain last year.

 

So now we're left with:

 

1)Ramirez

 

2)Danks....has to go because of peripherals returning to mean and to avoid the 4 lefties again with Rodon

 

3)Viciedo

 

4)Beckham

 

5)Noesi...likely to stay as there's simply nobody else for the back end of the rotation for the remainder of the season, especially if Danks is traded and no AA/AAA pitching comes back in return

Edited July 6, 2014 by caulfield12

[LDF]

 

re Dank and Beckman, I am all for keeping them if we can not get good value for them. JR is faithful

to his players and coaches. I really wonder if the sox org had discuss moving Dank with other team or

was this a msg board wishful thinking.

[caulfield12]

re Dank and Beckman, I am all for keeping them if we can not get good value for them. JR is faithful

to his players and coaches. I really wonder if the sox org had discuss moving Dank with other team or

was this a msg board wishful thinking.

 

 

It does ZERO good to hold onto Dunn since he's going to leave at the end of the year as a FA.

 

Other than protecting Konerko from having to play everyday, there's no reason to keep him...you could even argue it would be better to see what they have in Michael Taylor offensively.

 

Save that money for next year...if they really wanted to, they could always bring Adam back in 2015, but the odds of that happening are very low.

[LDF]

It does ZERO good to hold onto Dunn since he's going to leave at the end of the year as a FA.

 

Other than protecting Konerko from having to play everyday, there's no reason to keep him...you could even argue it would be better to see what they have in Michael Taylor offensively.

 

Save that money for next year...if they really wanted to, they could always bring Adam back in 2015, but the odds of that happening are very low.

 

it does a whole lot more to hold him instead of doing a salary dump, if that was the reason to trade him. I am

and will always say do the PR move dunn and keep him and show other baseball players the sox are loyal.

 

however the same can be said differently when we dfa a pitcher, a positional player so where do the sox draw

the line on who to keep out of loyalty. smarter people than I need to answer that. I am just a fan and nothing

more.