Surkamp called up, Scott Downs DFA'd

[Dick Allen]

It irritates the hell out of me that we call up our best minor league starter to make his first career relief appearances as a lefty specialist. It's like we were just hoping to sabotage him. If Carroll has a bad outing tonight, Surkamp needs to go several innings and get the next turn in the rotation

Reality states he is a 26 year old waiver claim. Let's not confuse him for a top prospect. Hopefully, he does well, but expectations should be low.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This is telling. As the only lefty, Surkamp will definitely be a RP for the time being. Must mean Carroll is getting another hard look at SP.

It's already been confirmed Carroll is getting Rienzo's start.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I've never played it, you're right.

 

With regards Downs, I only said that he's not quite been as bad as his 6+ ERA would indicate. That's no surprise when he had an ERA in the low 2s last year. It's very difficult to truly deserve a 2 ERA and a 6 ERA in consecutive years. Having said that, I also said his walk rate made it hard to cry over it, it was obviously way too high for a LOOGY.

 

With regards me "excusing total awfulness with bizarre stats", I assume you're referring to me repeatedly pointing out that De Aza was hitting nowhere near as badly as his basic stats would indicate. I think the bizarre stats won out there.

If you're ever in California let me know and you can discover how to play catch and swing a bat .

[Balta1701]

Reality states he is a 26 year old waiver claim. Let's not confuse him for a top prospect. Hopefully, he does well, but expectations should be low.

One thing worth noting is that a great number of successful bullpen lefties have long careers in the big leagues without ever being top prospects. Throw strikes, have some sort of offspeed pitch, and be left handed is a decent format for being a successful reliever.

[Dick Allen]

One thing worth noting is that a great number of successful bullpen lefties have long careers in the big leagues without ever being top prospects. Throw strikes, have some sort of offspeed pitch, and be left handed is a decent format for being a successful reliever.

Which is fine, but I was responding to him being the Sox #1 starter in the minors. Maybe they can get Kelly Wunch out of him.

[caulfield12]

Which is fine, but I was responding to him being the Sox #1 starter in the minors. Maybe they can get Kelly Wunch out of him.

 

Wunschie...that delivery of his. He wasn't the most handsome of men, but he was effective. Was one of about 11-12 Sox pitchers at roughly the same time (2001-2002) to go down with serious injuries.

 

We need someone down in that pen with some swagger and cockiness, like Scott Radinsky early in his White Sox career.

[Jake]

Reality states he is a 26 year old waiver claim. Let's not confuse him for a top prospect. Hopefully, he does well, but expectations should be low.

 

Reality also states that he's clearly the #6 starter in the system. Given that #5 is Scott Carroll, I'm not a big fan of jerking #6 around so that we can get a lefty out every other night.

 

The last season Surkamp started at full strength, he won the AA pitching triple crown. He now has a better K/BB, K/IP rate in AAA. Nobody said he's Jesus Christ, but there's a good chance we'll need him in our rotation at some point. As someone who has pitched and watched a handful of pitchers have their development sidetracked by bouncing between rotation and bullpen (Santiago), it's just a stupid move IMO.

 

There are more stupid moves to be made, to be sure. Hopefully, likely not a big deal. I still think it's wrong and unnecessary.

[Eminor3rd]

It's already been confirmed Carroll is getting Rienzo's start.

 

Ahh, thanks.

[Balta1701]

Reality also states that he's clearly the #6 starter in the system. Given that #5 is Scott Carroll, I'm not a big fan of jerking #6 around so that we can get a lefty out every other night.

 

The last season Surkamp started at full strength, he won the AA pitching triple crown. He now has a better K/BB, K/IP rate in AAA. Nobody said he's Jesus Christ, but there's a good chance we'll need him in our rotation at some point. As someone who has pitched and watched a handful of pitchers have their development sidetracked by bouncing between rotation and bullpen (Santiago), it's just a stupid move IMO.

 

There are more stupid moves to be made, to be sure. Hopefully, likely not a big deal. I still think it's wrong and unnecessary.

If Surkamp comes out and does really well in the bullpen there's every reason to think he'd get a chance to start at some point this season on this roster. As the only lefty in the pen he should also get several chances to face righties and could be used as a long man if needed to give him chances as well.

 

I'm not going to be mad though in this case about putting him in the bullpen to see what he has. He's not likely a top of the rotation guy or a key prospect that I worry about screwing up their arm or not getting them enough work to establish off speed stuff. If we wind up with a solid bullpen lefty out of Surkamp we should be very happy.

[CyAcosta41]

... The last season Surkamp started at full strength, he won the AA pitching triple crown. He now has a better K/BB, K/IP rate in AAA. Nobody said he's Jesus Christ ...

 

Of course he isn't. JC has amassed far more saves.

 

Easy jokes aside, I'm all in favor of seeing what Surkamp can do in the Bigs.

 

I respect what Jake has to say about not jerking pitchers around. My own baseball background is such that I understand that a linear, orderly, sensible development plan is the better idea when circumstances allow. Unfortunately, circumstances don't always allow. At least not for every "prospect."

 

Surkamp comes to us as something of a failed prospect. Perhaps that's too harsh. Maybe it's best to call him a suspect prospect -- someone who is more likely the classic AAAA player than anything else.

 

He's had a good amount of success in the minors. There are certainly quality major league left-handed starters who had roughly his type of arsenal. But, at some point, the only real question is whether his "stuff" plays at the major league level. And you know that only by checking that out.

 

Thus far -- in an admittedly VERY limited run -- it hasn't. But that doesn't mean that much. You need only look at players like Gillaspie and Eaton to see that it's foolish to assume a prospect's ceiling from his first taste of the Bigs.

 

I'm quite sure what many are worrying about here doesn't worry Surkamp in the least. The Parent Club wants him. No matter the current role, the Sox want to see if he's capable of getting major league hitters out. If he can show that he can do that consistently, then all sorts of opportunities open up for him. And with his specific tools, that most likely means L.H. starter.

Edited June 26, 2014 by CyAcosta41

[Eminor3rd]

Of course he isn't. JC has amassed far more saves.

 

Easy jokes aside, I'm all in favor of seeing what Surkamp can do in the Bigs.

 

I respect what Jake has to say about not jerking pitchers around. My own baseball background is such that I understand that a linear, orderly, sensible development plan is the better idea when circumstances allow. Unfortunately, circumstances don't always allow. At least not for every "prospect."

 

Surkamp comes to us as something of a failed prospect. Perhaps that's too harsh. Maybe it's best to call him a suspect prospect -- someone who is more likely the classic AAAA player than anything else.

 

He's had a good amount of success in the minors. There are certainly quality major league left-handed starters who had roughly his type of arsenal. But, at some point, the only real question is whether his "stuff" plays at the major league level. And you know that only by checking that out.

 

Thus far -- in an admittedly VERY limited run -- it hasn't. But that doesn't mean that much. You need only look at players like Gillaspie and Eaton to see that it's foolish to assume a prospect's ceiling from his first taste of the Bigs.

 

I'm quite sure what many are worrying about here doesn't worry Surkamp in the least. The Parent Club wants him. No matter the current role, the Sox want to see if he's capable of getting major league hitters out. If he can show that he can do that consistently, then all sorts of opportunities open up for him. And with his specific tools, that most likely means L.H. starter.

 

JC is a BUST

 

[harfman77]

I think it is mostly all filler at this point. I believe the future lefties in the pen are going to be Leesman and Snodgress. Surkamp still may have a shot at starting, but there is no harm is using him in a bullpen role for the time being to allow he and Coop to make adjustments more rapidly that can lead to success.

[Balta1701]

one series down and thus far I am quite content with Surkamp in this role. Hope his arm stays attached.

[Señor Ding-Dong]

Surkamp>>>Downs

[Dick Allen]

Reality also states that he's clearly the #6 starter in the system. Given that #5 is Scott Carroll, I'm not a big fan of jerking #6 around so that we can get a lefty out every other night.

 

The last season Surkamp started at full strength, he won the AA pitching triple crown. He now has a better K/BB, K/IP rate in AAA. Nobody said he's Jesus Christ, but there's a good chance we'll need him in our rotation at some point. As someone who has pitched and watched a handful of pitchers have their development sidetracked by bouncing between rotation and bullpen (Santiago), it's just a stupid move IMO.

 

There are more stupid moves to be made, to be sure. Hopefully, likely not a big deal. I still think it's wrong and unnecessary.

The 2 most succesful pitchers the Sox have had the last 15 years, began their major league career as relievers. Buehrle and Sale. Surkamp is a waiver claim. I bet if you asked him, he really doesn't care if he's now a LOOGY. He is probably thrilled, and in the end, a relief role is his most likely destiny.

 

If he was a highly thought of prospect, he probably wouldn't have been waived, and certainly, the entire NL wouldn't have passed on claiming him.

 

As for Santiago, the Angels are doing the exact same thing with him the White Sox did. So that apparently is 2 organizations that don't know what they are doing. Sometimes, though, it is on the player.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Jerksticks]

The 2 most succesful pitchers the Sox have had the last 15 years, began their major league career as relievers. Buehrle and Sale. Surkamp is a waiver claim. I bet if you asked him, he really doesn't care if he's now a LOOGY. He is probably thrilled, and in the end, a relief role is his most likely destiny.

 

If he was a highly thought of prospect, he probably wouldn't have been waived, and certainly, the entire NL wouldn't have passed on claiming him.

Exactly. Nobody is happier than Surkamp and his family right now!

[flavum]

Downs has been officially released.

[Dick Allen]

Downs has been officially released.

I wouldn't be surprised he winds up with the Angels. As bad as he has been, it is still better than Rich Hill.

[caulfield12]

God help us if Surkamp and Snodgress are the two best lefties in the bullpen coming into 2015.

 

JCINAA except in Greg's book.

[Balta1701]

God help us if Surkamp and Snodgress are the two best lefties in the bullpen coming into 2015.

 

JCINAA except in Greg's book.

Why?

 

Seriously, you can get a really solid reliever out of a guy who throws 90 from the LH side, throws strikes, and has some sort of off speed pitch. That can give a guy a 10+ year career. Those 2 could make a fairly solid contribution to a much improved bullpen if they are able to do that. Will they? I dunno, but Surkamp has been really good at his role so far.

[caulfield12]

Why?

 

Seriously, you can get a really solid reliever out of a guy who throws 90 from the LH side, throws strikes, and has some sort of off speed pitch. That can give a guy a 10+ year career. Those 2 could make a fairly solid contribution to a much improved bullpen if they are able to do that. Will they? I dunno, but Surkamp has been really good at his role so far.

 

They just don't have that electric stuff. Which means they really have to be command and control guys, like lesser versions of Danks.

 

The margin of error for those kind of pitchers is almost zero. Sure, they can be successful, but the odds of them doing it consistently like a Marte or Thornton for 3-5 consective years are pretty darned low.

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

They just don't have that electric stuff. Which means they really have to be command and control guys, like lesser versions of Danks.

 

The margin of error for those kind of pitchers is almost zero. Sure, they can be successful, but the odds of them doing it consistently like a Marte or Thornton for 3-5 consective years are pretty darned low.

Out of the bullpen? So what?

 

Scott Downs's fastball sat in the high 80's and barely touched 90 in the last few seasons. Since coming back from an injury in 2004 up until this year when he finally may have gotten old, he put up a 3.14 ERA over nearly a decade's worth of work. From age 31-37, without anything like a dominating fastball, he put up a 2.33 ERA.

 

Throw strikes, have an off speed pitch, be left handed, and you can make $30 million over the next 10 years. The formula has been the same all of my life.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Now that he signed with Kansas City, I look forward to the embarrassing moment when the White Sox are paying for him to strike out Adam Dunn.