When do you fire Robin?

[The Ultimate Champion]

If he was going to be fired for the way the team played it should have been last year.

I don't care about the record really. There's nothing he can do to make this team a contender. I also think he at least is pretty good at getting his players to play and keeping the clubhouse in order. I just think he's a s***ty baseball manager.

[LDF]

I think we should address the manager after we address the team on the field.

 

 

that is when we put a full competitive team on the field. then let see how robin can manage.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Yeah I loved watching Robin play. I also think he's a great guy and is a good "leader" type for sure. What I don't think is that he's a good manager. IMO the Robin experiment is pretty much exactly why you don't just take a Paul Konerko type and make him a manager, like KW was also considering.

I don't think managing baseball games is splitting atoms. Ventura had plenty of baseball experience, knew the grind well and was a leader on some teams who had several leader types.

 

Why don't we see how he does with a team with good players before judging his work? Most of his criticizms here come after the fact, and assume that the guy he SHOULD have brought in, would have been lights out, which simply isn't feasable. Fix the team first. Then if the manager needs to be fixed, fix it, but not now.

 

Besides, most if not all of the pitching moves he makes are not his decision alone.

[hogan873]

We're all forgetting the most important aspects of a manager. Do people smile when he enters a restaurant? Is he fun? Does he have personality? Does he have a fanbase in Kansas?

 

I'm going to camp out in front of the Applebees here and conduct an informal poll.

 

Seriously, though, I think Robin is doing fine with what he has to work with. His biggest failings (if you want to blame him) have been with the bullpen. The bullpen has been bad this year. I don't see Robin going anywhere for a few years.

[BlackSox13]

" When do you fire Robin"?

 

I didn't see the option I was looking for and since this is or used to be a democratic society, I'm going to write in my vote.

 

So my answer to the question would be, last winter.

[Balta1701]

I don't think managing baseball games is splitting atoms. Ventura had plenty of baseball experience, knew the grind well and was a leader on some teams who had several leader types.

 

Why don't we see how he does with a team with good players before judging his work? Most of his criticizms here come after the fact, and assume that the guy he SHOULD have brought in, would have been lights out, which simply isn't feasable. Fix the team first. Then if the manager needs to be fixed, fix it, but not now.

 

Besides, most if not all of the pitching moves he makes are not his decision alone.

Right now this team is performing about where expected coming into this season, perhaps even a bit better when you consider the injuries (of course, he did kinda contribute to at least one of those, but anywho). That's probably the best defense you can give right now, this is no longer a dramatically underperforming team.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Not sure there's many a mangers in baseball that would have made the teams he's had any better. Would a better manager really make this bullpen better? If we're firing Robin, we're firing Coop as well....I can't imagine Coop, being the loudmouth New Yorker he is, not having a big say in how the bullpen is run. If he thinks it's a bad move I just can't see him sitting back and not saying it's dumb.

[LDF]

I don't think managing baseball games is splitting atoms. Ventura had plenty of baseball experience, knew the grind well and was a leader on some teams who had several leader types.

 

Why don't we see how he does with a team with good players before judging his work? Most of his criticizms here come after the fact, and assume that the guy he SHOULD have brought in, would have been lights out, which simply isn't feasable. Fix the team first. Then if the manager needs to be fixed, fix it, but not now.

 

Besides, most if not all of the pitching moves he makes are not his decision alone.

 

 

man there is something terrible wrong here..... I am in agreement with Dick Allen

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Not sure there's many a mangers in baseball that would have made the teams he's had any better. Would a better manager really make this bullpen better? If we're firing Robin, we're firing Coop as well....I can't imagine Coop, being the loudmouth New Yorker he is, not having a big say in how the bullpen is run. If he thinks it's a bad move I just can't see him sitting back and not saying it's dumb.

 

I think a better manager manages a bullpen better, but you can only do so much with the talent on hand, and this wouldn't be a good bullpen at this point even with someone else on hand.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)?

 

I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position?

[Eminor3rd]

Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)?

 

I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position?

 

What kind of question is that?

[The Ultimate Champion]

Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)?

 

I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position?

Why? If I had to lose one or the other I'd fire Robin. If I didn't have to choose one or the other I'd still fire Robin. Hahn has been active and has made some good moves. He's had 2 pretty good looking drafts as well. We'll see, but he needs a few years. In general, the decision making process seems sound with Hahn, not so much on the part of El Managandro DeAza, and that to me should be the new hOtFiRe.

[witesoxfan]

Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)?

 

I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position?

 

 

 

 

[Jake]

There's nothing like a bad bullpen to make a manager look inept

[Jake]

Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)?

 

I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position?

 

The question there is just whether you think Hahn is doing a good job. The GM has infinitely more influence on the team's success than the manager. You only pick the manager if you like the GM

[Kyyle23]

What kind of question is that?

 

caulfieldian

[LVSoxFan]

Sigh. Seems like we've been here many times in the past few years, the chicken-or-the-egg conundrum?

 

Is it that he's a crappy manager who can't bring out the best in his players?

 

Or is it that they're a so-so team where there's nothing to bring out of them?

 

I guess I'd be thinking at this point if it is a rebuilding year and we're going to have a fire sale after the ASB, I don't know what the point of firing him mid-rebuild is.

 

If we all had high hopes for this season that were decimated by bad managing, maybe that would make sense. But we really didn't have those high hopes, did we?

[caulfield12]

Let's say you have a fiance and you're unsure about her....wavering back and forth.

 

You have two hypothetical choices. You either marry her today or you never see her again for the rest of your life. If you can't imagine your future without her, then the choice is clear.

 

I think nearly everyone wants to see what this White Sox team looks like in 3 years with Hahn given a free reign to make decisions as he sees fit. On the other hand, I don't think more than a few would be overly upset if Robin Ventura wasn't around to manage that 2017 team.

 

Granted, we've seen 1 more season of Ventura as manager than Hahn as GM, but we should be very familiar with him from all the time he was the most highly-paid Assistant GM in all of baseball.

Edited June 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

Let's say you have a fiance and you're unsure about her....wavering back and forth.

 

You have two hypothetical choices. You either marry her today or you never see her again for the rest of your life. If you can't imagine your future without her, then the choice is clear.

 

I think nearly everyone wants to see what this White Sox team looks like in 3 years with Hahn given a free reign to make decisions as he sees fit. On the other hand, I don't think more than a few would be overly upset if Robin Ventura wasn't around to manage that 2017 team.

 

Granted, we've seen 1 more season of Ventura as manager than Hahn as GM, but we should be very familiar with him from all the time he was the most highly-paid Assistant GM in all of baseball.

 

Lol how does that analogy apply to our managerial situation at all?

[southsider2k5]

Lol how does that analogy apply to our managerial situation at all?

 

Because Craig Grebeck.

[witesoxfan]

Let's say you have a fiance and you're unsure about her....wavering back and forth.

 

You have two hypothetical choices. You either marry her today or you never see her again for the rest of your life. If you can't imagine your future without her, then the choice is clear.

 

I think nearly everyone wants to see what this White Sox team looks like in 3 years with Hahn given a free reign to make decisions as he sees fit. On the other hand, I don't think more than a few would be overly upset if Robin Ventura wasn't around to manage that 2017 team.

 

Granted, we've seen 1 more season of Ventura as manager than Hahn as GM, but we should be very familiar with him from all the time he was the most highly-paid Assistant GM in all of baseball.

 

This isn't about husband and wife though. This is like having a car (Ventura) and a house (Hahn) and you can decide whether or not you want to keep them or get different ones.

 

I mean, seriously, Hahn and Ventura have almost nothing to do with each other's job security.

[caulfield12]

Lol how does that analogy apply to our managerial situation at all?

 

 

How does this poll apply?

 

Seriously, Ventura's here as long as he wants to be. Especially if they trade Alexei Ramirez, Beckham, Viciedo, etc.

 

That gives him through the 2016 season, at a bare minimum, because you're not realistically expecting to compete anymore in 2015 simply because the free agents out there don't really fill our needs (Sandoval, Headley) or they will be prohibitively expensive (Hanley Ramirez, Scherzer, Lester, Shields, etc.) and the hitting prospects we have at AA or AAA aren't expected to be All-Star caliber players.

 

You essentially only have one significant trade chip in Alexei Ramirez. The rest of the changes are going to come from spending in free agency, and that's not the White Sox style.

 

Unless they hit a home run on every single "minor" trade like Beckham, Viciedo, DeAza, Dunn, Putnam, Belisario, etc., it's too big of a hill to climb. They can't move John Danks. The reality of the situation is that Hahn has to get a bounty from a Ramirez trade and pray to god that Rodon's a stud instead of another Andruw Miller.

[RockRaines]

Still amazed that some folks havent figured out this is a rebuild.

[caulfield12]

This isn't about husband and wife though. This is like having a car (Ventura) and a house (Hahn) and you can decide whether or not you want to keep them or get different ones.

 

I mean, seriously, Hahn and Ventura have almost nothing to do with each other's job security.

 

 

 

The Padres might disagree.

[witesoxfan]

The Padres might disagree.

 

The Padres had a new ownership group and felt that they wanted someone else to build their team rather than Josh Byrnes. That has literally NOTHING to do with the White Sox situation because it's the PADRES' situation.