When do you fire Robin?

[The Ultimate Champion]

And if he leaves Quintana in and he blows it, you get people asking why he left the starter in so long, especially a rookie starter. It's not like we don't already hear that with Sale.

 

Robin is in a no win situation, as all baseball managers are.

When the guy gets through the 8th on like 7 pitches of which 6 are strikes and the hitters are completely f***ed mentally and are behind the fastball and in front of the change you don't need to go to your closer.

 

I love the shift stuff, that's the best. Pay waaaaaaaay too much attention to what is happening on the IF but let your s*** corner OFs play shallow. I'd like to put Robin on a double decker plane, Robin and a bunch of Alexei-looking stick people in the upper portion in first class and a bunch of Biiiig BERTHA!! plumpers in the lower deck. Then let's do the same thing, shift all the plumpers in the lower deck to one side of the plane and let the Alexei stick people stay exactly where they are. When the plane tips over maybe he'll understand how stupid it is to focus all his energy on half the defensive setup and none on the other, but then again, maybe that little raisin of a brain in his skull, upon flipping over, will clink against the top of his skull and give him a new idea for once. God this guy is bad. FIRE HIM NOW!!! Trade for Gardenhire also, even though I know it can't/won't happen. I luuuuuuv Ron Gardenhire.

[ptatc]

If Robin is really that comfortable putting the game in the hands of Don Cooper, then why does he want to be manager in the first place?

 

Eventually, he's going to have a Harry Truman/General Douglas McArthur moment where he realizes the two of them can't co-exist unless he wants to be totally emasculated as a manager.

 

As far as Cooper goes, Noesi/Putnam/Petricka are all wins for him. Did anyone expect much out of Danks again, for example lower than a 4.00 ERA? If you're going to blame him for Scott Downs, Erik Johnson or Daniel Webb, then we might as well blame Jeff Manto for Keppinger.

Most managers in baseball lean on the pitching coach for advice on making pitching changes. It's part of the job of the pitching coach to know the pitchers. Similar to the head coach of a football team allowing the defensive coordinator to run the defense. The all have input.

[RockRaines]

I think defining a bad baseball manager is like defining pornography....I can't define it in words, but I know it when I see it.

 

Robin Ventura is a terrible manager. It's just going to take time to work itself out...like a few years.

SO you agree this roster could be producing better results?

[Kyyle23]

When the guy gets through the 8th on like 7 pitches of which 6 are strikes and the hitters are completely f***ed mentally and are behind the fastball and in front of the change you don't need to go to your closer.

 

I love the shift stuff, that's the best. Pay waaaaaaaay too much attention to what is happening on the IF but let your s*** corner OFs play shallow. I'd like to put Robin on a double decker plane, Robin and a bunch of Alexei-looking stick people in the upper portion in first class and a bunch of Biiiig BERTHA!! plumpers in the lower deck. Then let's do the same thing, shift all the plumpers in the lower deck to one side of the plane and let the Alexei stick people stay exactly where they are. When the plane tips over maybe he'll understand how stupid it is to focus all his energy on half the defensive setup and none on the other, but then again, maybe that little raisin of a brain in his skull, upon flipping over, will clink against the top of his skull and give him a new idea for once. God this guy is bad. FIRE HIM NOW!!! Trade for Gardenhire also, even though I know it can't/won't happen. I luuuuuuv Ron Gardenhire.

 

Come on man, look at Gardenhires win totals the last couple years, he won 66, 66, and 63 games. When you have garbage pitching, you get garbage results.

[RockRaines]

When the guy gets through the 8th on like 7 pitches of which 6 are strikes and the hitters are completely f***ed mentally and are behind the fastball and in front of the change you don't need to go to your closer.

 

I love the shift stuff, that's the best. Pay waaaaaaaay too much attention to what is happening on the IF but let your s*** corner OFs play shallow. I'd like to put Robin on a double decker plane, Robin and a bunch of Alexei-looking stick people in the upper portion in first class and a bunch of Biiiig BERTHA!! plumpers in the lower deck. Then let's do the same thing, shift all the plumpers in the lower deck to one side of the plane and let the Alexei stick people stay exactly where they are. When the plane tips over maybe he'll understand how stupid it is to focus all his energy on half the defensive setup and none on the other, but then again, maybe that little raisin of a brain in his skull, upon flipping over, will clink against the top of his skull and give him a new idea for once. God this guy is bad. FIRE HIM NOW!!! Trade for Gardenhire also, even though I know it can't/won't happen. I luuuuuuv Ron Gardenhire.

You'd hate Gardenhire with this roster as well, but great long form explanation on literally nothing at all.

[flavum]

SO you agree this roster could be producing better results?

 

They could play smarter. It's not a winning team, but I don't think they're maximizing what they do have.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

SO you agree this roster could be producing better results?

I don't think Robin is a good manager but this team isn't good. If they played better we wouldn't be so hard on Robin maybe.

 

My thing is if we're rebuilding let's rebuild with a good manager.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Come on man, look at Gardenhires win totals the last couple years, he won 66, 66, and 63 games. When you have garbage pitching, you get garbage results.

Yeah Gardenhire, just like Robin, isn't going to make a bad team into a contender. However, Gardenhire, unlike Robin, is a high-quality MLB manager who is perfectly capable of leading a talented team.

[ILMOU]

I don't care about the record really. There's nothing he can do to make this team a contender. I also think he at least is pretty good at getting his players to play and keeping the clubhouse in order. I just think he's a s***ty baseball manager.

I agree with you TUC, but like others have said - he ain't going anywhere. He's mgmt.'s guy and the anti-Ozzie. He'll be here awhile longer at least.

 

Hopefully, the org realizes when they're at point B. I think next year there will be more pressure on him for the team's performance. I also think we'll be improving the team through FA, so the expectations will be different.

[Kyyle23]

Yeah Gardenhire, just like Robin, isn't going to make a bad team into a contender. However, Gardenhire, unlike Robin, is a high-quality MLB manager who is perfectly capable of leading a talented team.

 

Robins evaluation time will come when the FO decides that this team is ready to compete for real, and not "if it happens this season, that is just gravy". At that point, Robin will need to have worked out all the bad decisions and start making better decisions.

 

Robin could end up being Jeff Torborg, the guy who is with the team in the rebuilding phase, and sent away when it is time. Gardenhire would be getting blasted on this board for bad decisions just as much as Robin does if he were managing the Sox right now

[RockRaines]

They could play smarter. It's not a winning team, but I don't think they're maximizing what they do have.

So how many wins is "maximizing" what they have? Many of their recent losses is due to a s***ty bullpen that lost its 1 and 2 guys.

[flavum]

So how many wins is "maximizing" what they have? Many of their recent losses is due to a s***ty bullpen that lost its 1 and 2 guys.

 

See, this is an argument that isn't winnable, so congratulations, you win.

 

There's always a built-in excuse with the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Still amazed that some folks havent figured out this is a rebuild.

 

Especially because just about everyone wanted a rebuild.

[lasttriptotulsa]

When the guy gets through the 8th on like 7 pitches of which 6 are strikes and the hitters are completely f***ed mentally and are behind the fastball and in front of the change you don't need to go to your closer.

 

I love the shift stuff, that's the best. Pay waaaaaaaay too much attention to what is happening on the IF but let your s*** corner OFs play shallow. I'd like to put Robin on a double decker plane, Robin and a bunch of Alexei-looking stick people in the upper portion in first class and a bunch of Biiiig BERTHA!! plumpers in the lower deck. Then let's do the same thing, shift all the plumpers in the lower deck to one side of the plane and let the Alexei stick people stay exactly where they are. When the plane tips over maybe he'll understand how stupid it is to focus all his energy on half the defensive setup and none on the other, but then again, maybe that little raisin of a brain in his skull, upon flipping over, will clink against the top of his skull and give him a new idea for once. God this guy is bad. FIRE HIM NOW!!! Trade for Gardenhire also, even though I know it can't/won't happen. I luuuuuuv Ron Gardenhire.

 

Do you ever post anything that isn't complete gibberish? I get that you're trying to be funny, but trust me you're failing miserably.

[witesoxfan]

See, this is an argument that isn't winnable, so congratulations, you win.

 

There's always a built-in excuse with the White Sox.

 

I know what you're saying. There have been a few games that Ventura has cost the Sox this year due to poor management, but they were up by 1 and 4 runs in games 1 and 3 of that series, he put his faith in his bullpen, and they blew the game. At some point, it falls on the players.

 

Same with the Twins series...what more do you want him to do? It's hard when the players fail.

[flavum]

The rebuild is a good thing and long overdue, but Ventura is a still a joke of a manager. Two separate things going on.

 

I guess the proof will be in the results from 2016-2020, but if they don't win 88+ most of those years, I'm sure we'll find some excuses that makes it ok.

[Eminor3rd]

I haven't watched a Sox game the whole year but by looking at things on paper my guess is that the bullpen totally sucks.

 

That's the sum of it. They can't get dudes out. None of them. Then when they fail everyone is like "oh, well why did Robin let HIM pitch?"

 

Because the whole group is bad. 100% bad players. WTF do you want to do? Oh, shoulda let Guerra blow it instead of Belisario? Whatever.

[RockRaines]

See, this is an argument that isn't winnable, so congratulations, you win.

 

There's always a built-in excuse with the White Sox.

If you are looking at a discussion as who wins and who loses, you've already missed the point. Its a rebuild with a s***ty team thats been bitten by the injury bug all over the roster. Blaming the manager is moronic IMO.

[The Ultimate Champion]

See, this is an argument that isn't winnable, so congratulations, you win.

 

There's always a built-in excuse with the White Sox.

This is the Alejandro DeAza argument I think.

 

Is DeAza "good enough" to be a part of our core going forward? No.

 

Is DeAza "good enough" to be here now, since we're already bad and rebuilding, and since the games don't matter anyway? Most people would probably say "yes" or at least "it doesn't matter that he's not good because we're not playing for anything."

 

But, there is a difference between playing a marginal at best quality of player who DOES make good, smart baseball decisions and playing a marginal at best quality player who DOES NOT make good, smart baseball decisions and that is probably best set underneath the umbrella of "culture" or "attitude" or "winning mentality" and etc.

 

Is Robin "good enough" to manage a contending team? No.

 

Is Robin "good enough" to manage a rebuilding team that isn't talented enough to win and isn't playing for anything anyway? It seems like most are saying that it doesn't matter because no other manager could turn this thing around anyway.

 

But, there is a difference between running out a competent manager that makes competent baseball decisions, and running out an abysmal manager who hasn't developed and still does not make good, smart baseball decisions. And if you also as in the DeAza example above quantify that as something intangible and difficult to measure, you're still quantifying it within a realm managers are expected to be judged and under an umbrella that managers are supposed to live under anyway. I.E. are we doing the little things right? No, and our manager isn't either. Do we have a winning attitude? Yes, at times, but we're a young team and we should. We *should* have players out there excited to take the field because they are all, or at least should be, playing in younger bodies on younger legs and personally motivated by the prospects of a long, lucrative Major League career which they've all dreamt about since childhood.

 

So is Robin "good enough" to manage this team? No, I don't think so anymore, because he hasn't developed as a manager the same way the org expects the players to develop. He's tuna, put him in the net and can him.

[RockRaines]

Is Robin "good enough" to manage a contending team? No.

So much filler in your posts, type them out, delete 50% and then hit post.

 

This is the only point you actually made, and my questions is, when has he had a chance to?

[flavum]

If you are looking at a discussion as who wins and who loses, you've already missed the point. Its a rebuild with a s***ty team thats been bitten by the injury bug all over the roster. Blaming the manager is moronic IMO.

 

So let me ask you this-- what year starts the "no excuses, it's time to win a division or a wildcard spot"?

 

And I'm not saying Sale and Abreu get injured and we still expect to win. I'm saying the Sox could lose Jones and Lindstrom in the same year, and the Sox would have reserves.

 

What's the time frame for no excuses?

[Kyyle23]

So let me ask you this-- what year starts the "no excuses, it's time to win a division or a wildcard spot"?

And I'm not saying Sale and Abreu get injured and we still expect to win. I'm saying the Sox could lose Jones and Lindstrom in the same year, and the Sox would have reserves.

 

What's the time frame for no excuses?

 

I would ask in reply, on April 1st, did you feel that year was 2014?

[Eminor3rd]

So let me ask you this-- what year starts the "no excuses, it's time to win a division or a wildcard spot"?

 

And I'm not saying Sale and Abreu get injured and we still expect to win. I'm saying the Sox could lose Jones and Lindstrom in the same year, and the Sox would have reserves.

 

What's the time frame for no excuses?

 

Idk, but it definitely ISN'T year one, lol.

[southsider2k5]

Idk, but it definitely ISN'T year one, lol.

 

Fer realz. Who watched the last year of games and activity and thought "This team should win the AL Central"?

[flavum]

I would ask in reply, on April 1st, did you feel that year was 2014?

 

Of course not. I don't even think it's 2015 unless everything goes right.

 

I'm just tired of the Sox having excuses, because they always have them. What year starts the clock on "no excuses, it's time to win"?

 

What year does Robin take an 85-win talent team, and make them an 88-win team because he's a good manager?