When do you fire Robin?

[caulfield12]

“That game just smelled right from the start,” White Sox manager Robin Ventura said. “We didn’t play very well, didn’t hit very well, didn’t play defense very well and it showed.”

 

“I hope it (flat). I hope it looked that way. It was. Hopefully it was getting in late and part of the whole travel thing. We’ll find out tomorrow.”

 

 

www.csnchicago.com

 

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/02/...YUPI/story.html

Preseason results of managers' rankings from talking to people throughout baseball industry....

 

Ventura ranked 23rd, with the comment that it's difficult to place him with the changing environment of the team...hopefully you'll see the comments connected to Gibbons at #20 come into play as we head into 2015 with an almost new team compared to the 2013 version.

 

There’s a feeling Gibbons was too laid-back and he has vowed to be more assertive this season and hold his players accountable.

Edited June 27, 2014 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

Never in million, zillion years did I ever think you'd make this much sense, but you hit the nail on the head so perfectly and astutely with this that I'm not sure it's really even you anymore.

Eat twat?

 

Oh, s***... Wait... That's a complementary ambition.

 

[harfman77]

I feel Robin has done as good of a job as anyone else could do given the roster deficiencies.

 

Beyond that, I think he has been a really good influence on the younger players that have been brought in as part of the rebuild, helping them to understand what it takes to be major league baseball players, teaching them how to be accountable to their teammates, protecting them from media criticism, and really serving as a stabilizing influence in the clubhouse.

[Heads22]

I don't know if 2015 is a make or break season. It probably isn't and shouldn't be considered as such. That being said, it's not unrealistic to expect continued improvement.

[greg775]

I don't know if 2015 is a make or break season. It probably isn't and shouldn't be considered as such. That being said, it's not unrealistic to expect continued improvement.

 

Let's face it. He's gonna be around as our manager as long as jerry is alive and owns the team. He's the polar opposite of Oz's personality and that's what everybody on the Sox front office wants.

Edited June 28, 2014 by greg775

[SCCWS]

Let's face it. He's gonna be around as our manager as long as jerry is alive and owns the team. He's the polar opposite of Oz's personality and that's what everybody on the Sox front office wants.

 

It is important to remember that this is a rebuilding year and the roster reflects that. I think the biggest problem facing this organization is still the minors. Until the Sox can have a AAA team with players who can help when the need arises, any manager will struggle. Who was the last non-pitcher that came up through the White Sox system and turned out to be an adequate ML player???? I would guess Beckham and Flowers and certainly Flowers is still questionable.

 

 

 

[GreatScott82]

Let's face it. He's gonna be around as our manager as long as jerry is alive and owns the team. He's the polar opposite of Oz's personality and that's what everybody on the Sox front office wants.

I'm afraid your right here. He is a total 'yes man' type of manager. When I was talking to Hawk at Soxfest this year, he said this will be a growing year and that they will be going for it in 2015. If that is true, you would have to believe 2015 will be make or break for Robin as a manager. If Hahn brings him some top target free agents and makes some more trades to help set up success in 2015, and Robin still fails to earn a playoff birth as manager, He Gone.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Robin actually trusted Putnam to get out of the inning on his own today. Wow. Maybe he is getting it, we'll see. If he pulls him for a lefty-on-lefty matchup next time out then Robin still hasn't gotten it.

 

Putnam's splitter may not move like Belisario's does, but it is a far more effective pitch because it does dive and he keeps the ball down. I don't give a f*** if the guy in the box is a lefty or righty or what inning it is, right now if there's any one pitch you want thrown to any one batter by any one reliever in our pen in any given situation, it's Putnam's splitter. Close second is Petricka's sinker, again no surprise because he keeps it down.

[GreenSox]

Robin actually trusted Putnam to get out of the inning on his own today. Wow. Maybe he is getting it, we'll see. If he pulls him for a lefty-on-lefty matchup next time out then Robin still hasn't gotten it.

I don't know if it's good or not. What if he had trusted Bellasario last night.

It's kind of a guess with this unproven bullpen and hard to fault one way or the other. But the right call was made, 2 in a row.

Edited June 28, 2014 by GreenSox

[cabiness42]

When do you fire Robin?

 

Right after Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams make out in public.

[Vance Law]

Ventura single handedly won the game today by keeping Alexei out of the lineup so he could pinch-hit at the most opportune time. Alexei gets a pinch hit single on the much needed 4th run. Ventura also knew that Putnam would give up a run, which is why he knew he needed to pinch hit with Ramirez.

[GreenSox]

He should be fired after tonight. A fifth grader would make more reasoned decisions. he has extreme limited skills.

Edited July 2, 2014 by GreenSox

[Buehrle>Wood]

When Hawk is showing his displeasure at the move you know it's bad.

 

 

 

Honestly thought tonight was his most nonsensical decision yet, unless he's trying to lose games, which I guess wouldn't be so bad at this point

[IlliniKrush]

Didn't see the game, can someone fill me in?

[GreenSox]

I don't know what move they are talking about, but:

 

You don't bat your WORST hitter on the roster 2nd. You bat your best. Further, Ventura puts the worst hitter right in front of Abreu.

Bringing Carroll out for the 7th AND letting him walk 2.

With Abreu on deck in the 9th, Ventura doesn't bother pinch hitting for the worst hitter on the roster.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Didn't see the game, can someone fill me in?

1 run game. Carroll gave up 6 runs in the first 6 innings. Looks terrible because he's Scott Carroll.

 

 

Robin for some reason sends him out for the 7th. Okay. Whatever. Then Carroll walks the first guy on 4 pitches. Surely he's coming out now with the best player in the game up, a guy who Robin knows makes you pay for leaving in your starter. Nope, leaves him in.

 

 

 

Damage wasn't even terrible. Trout walked too. A run later scored that inning, yeah. But the move just made no sense.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[GREEDY]

Hahn needs to find a young, spanish as a first language coaching staff.

[BlackSox13]

 

Pitch #120 for Danks just went over the fence. Thought I'd go ahead and cue the music.

Edited July 3, 2014 by StRoostifer

[LittleHurt05]

He just used Leury Garcia as a pinch hitter which resulted in a White Sox Walk-off Winner. Genius.

[caulfield12]

He just used Leury Garcia as a pinch hitter which resulted in a White Sox Walk-off Winner. Genius.

 

 

This wasn't a choice between Beckham and Garcia.

 

It was Sierra and Leury.

 

Any statistician would tell you that Leury makes more contact/strikes out less and has the remoter probability of hitting into a double play.

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

This wasn't a choice between Beckham and Garcia.

 

It was Sierra and Leury.

 

Any statistician would tell you that Leury makes more contact/strikes out less and has the remoter probability of hitting into a double play.

 

So when Robin makes a good decision, he gets zero credit because it was so obvious. Gotcha.

[caulfield12]

So when Robin makes a good decision, he gets zero credit because it was so obvious. Gotcha.

 

 

You tell me...on one hand, Sierra was 4 for his last 11 and has put up an OPS of nearly 800 for the month of June in sporadic playing time.

 

He also had one game-winning, walk off hit earlier in the season.

 

On the other hand, he has 31 K's in 110 at-bats, and is much likelier to hit into a double play. Garcia has an uppercut swing and recently has had a tendency to hit the ball up into the air, fwiw.

 

 

All those things taken into consideration, it was a very good decision. On paper, Sierra's the better hitter. Then again, someone said they would have preferred Garcia to Beckham because Gordon has been terrible with RISP this season (assuming that means something, when in previous seasons he was good or better than with nobody on, statistical variance/randomness/anomalies, etc.) but I digress.

This year, with the Sox, Sierra has 29 GO's and 26 flyouts.

 

Garcia is striking out at a slightly higher clip than Sierra this season, and is twice as likely to hit the ball into the ground as to pop it up, but he's still less likely to hit into a double play because of his speed.

 

Sierra actually had a 579 OPS against RHP and Garcia was barely above 500, although I'm guessing the main reason (in the end) he used Garcia was to avoid the double play and he thought a lefty hitter against a RHP was a better option.

 

 

 

So....while there's no clear and compelling reason why his "hunch" work out from a statistical perspective...if Ventura can "go against the grain" and continue to make decisions like this that work out more often than not, and he can do it to the point where you feel it wasn't just blind luck for a fluke, we can start to throw the genius label at him.

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

You tell me...on one hand, Sierra was 4 for his last 11 and has put up an OPS of nearly 800 for the month of June in sporadic playing time.

 

He also had one game-winning, walk off hit earlier in the season.

 

On the other hand, he has 31 K's in 110 at-bats, and is much likelier to hit into a double play. Garcia has an uppercut swing and recently has had a tendency to hit the ball up into the air, fwiw.

 

 

All those things taken into consideration, it was a very good decision. On paper, Sierra's the better hitter. Then again, someone said they would have preferred Garcia to Beckham because Gordon has been terrible with RISP this season (assuming that means something, when in previous seasons he was good or better than with nobody on, statistical variance/randomness/anomalies, etc.) but I digress.

This year, with the Sox, Sierra has 29 GO's and 26 flyouts.

 

Garcia is striking out at a slightly higher clip than Sierra this season, and is twice as likely to hit the ball into the ground as to pop it up, but he's still less likely to hit into a double play because of his speed.

 

Sierra actually had a 579 OPS against RHP and Garcia was barely above 500, although I'm guessing the main reason (in the end) he used Garcia was to avoid the double play and he thought a lefty hitter against a RHP was a better option.

 

 

 

So....while there's no clear and compelling reason why his "hunch" work out from a statistical perspective...if Ventura can "go against the grain" and continue to make decisions like this that work out more often than not, and he can do it to the point where you feel it wasn't just blind luck for a fluke, we can start to throw the genius label at him.

 

That is some very solid in-depth analysis on the decision, but you do realize my "genius" comment was full of sarcasm, right?

[witesoxfan]

This wasn't a choice between Beckham and Garcia.

 

It was Sierra and Leury.

 

Any statistician would tell you that Leury makes more contact/strikes out less and has the remoter probability of hitting into a double play.

 

So then, as a manager, he made the correct call.

[Dick Allen]

If anyone thinks if Garcia struck out or popped up or hit into a DP that this move that suddenly makes sense, wouldn't have been one of the dumbest moves of all time, cementing Ventura as a bigger bonehead than Bevington, you're just kidding yourself.