Closer? 'We don't really have one'

[winninguglyin83]

Just played a clip of Robin on the post-game radio show.

 

Sure sounded like Bella is out as the closer. Said that he was going to shake things up in the pen. Said that he and Coop were going to "hash it out," tonight.

 

Said when he went to the mound he told Bella not to be afraid to throw strikes.

 

Very complimentary of Petricka, but did not commit to him.

Edited June 28, 2014 by southsider2k5

[BigHurt3515]

Just played a clip of Robin on the post-game radio show.

 

Sure sounded like Bella is out as the closer. Said that he was going to shake things up in the pen. Said that he and Coop were going to "hash it out," tonight.

 

Said when he went to the mound he told Bella not to be afraid to throw strikes.

 

Very complimentary of Petricka, but did not commit to him.

 

 

Petricka seems to be running out of gas IMO.. He pitches way too much.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think he tries Guerra as closer.

[royoung]

Petricka seems to be running out of gas IMO.. He pitches way too much.

 

Well putting him as the closer should give him lots of rest

[farmteam]

Belisario just has no business being closer. Glad he's out. I'd be fine with Guerra or Petricka.

[caulfield12]

Just played a clip of Robin on the post-game radio show.

 

Sure sounded like Bella is out as the closer. Said that he was going to shake things up in the pen. Said that he and Coop were going to "hash it out," tonight.

 

Said when he went to the mound he told Bella not to be afraid to throw strikes.

 

Very complimentary of Petricka, but did not commit to him.

 

 

All of those pitches that Belisario gave up hits on were right down the middle of the plate...he probably also said you might want to try a different pitch than a fastball in the killing zone.

 

Flowers and Danks were also having troubles coming to agreement on pitch selection earlier in the game.

 

Surkamp seemed rattled early but did his job to get the DP ball that Conor whiffed on. That's at least 2-3 times Gillaspie has made late-game errors that were pretty critical.

[Jose Abreu]

No mention of Zach Putnam in here?

[greg775]

It's Petricka's turn IMO. Give him a shot before Guerra.

[greg775]

All of those pitches that Belisario gave up hits on were right down the middle of the plate...he probably also said you might want to try a different pitch than a fastball in the killing zone.

 

Flowers and Danks were also having troubles coming to agreement on pitch selection earlier in the game.

 

Surkamp seemed rattled early but did his job to get the DP ball that Conor whiffed on. That's at least 2-3 times Gillaspie has made late-game errors that were pretty critical.

 

It's pretty apparent by now Conor is not a good fielding third baseman. He either has to move to the outfield or first or second base if he's going to play in the major leagues. I guess he could be a DH once Dunn leaves for good.

Edited June 28, 2014 by greg775

[Andy the Clown]

It's pretty apparent by now Conor is not a good fielding third baseman. He either has to move to the outfield or first or second base if he's going to play in the major leagues. I guess he could be a DH once Dunn leaves for good.

 

He'd actually be worth a damn if he could play 2B.

[oldsox]

I think Conor at 2B would have struggled with the final out that GB made fairly routinely, with the tying run about to score. The ball is going to keep finding him in clutch situations, so he has to get over it.

[GreatScott82]

Bobby Thigpen is already in the pen, suit him up!!

[royoung]

Bobby Thigpen is already in the pen, suit him up!!

 

We don't need a "closer." Go by committee; pick the hot hand.

[caulfield12]

We don't need a "closer." Go by committee; pick the hot hand.

 

 

We're on our fourth closer of the season already, essentially.

 

Jones, Lindstrom, Belisario and now ??? (Guerra/Petricka).

 

If you go with the "hot hand," how many blown saves do they get to prove they're not the hot hand? There's just no way that this strategy, with the talent we have remaining in our pen (or lack thereof), is going to yield anything close to an 80-85% save conversion rate.

 

Who would even be the "hot hand" now? Petricka? Putnam? Guerra? They each have their own unique set of pro's and con's.

 

The ONLY time the pen was working well was when Putnam knew he was the 7th inning guy, Belisario 8th and Lindstrom 9th. If you keep changing their roles every night, it just won't work very effectively. Bullpens need to have consistency and established roles...defined expectations.

Edited June 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

No mention of Zach Putnam in here?

Well it's because sometimes when pitching the 9th inning left-handed hitters come up. You see, there are *some* right-handed pitchers who just simply cannot ever be left in to face left-handed batters and as a result never deserve the opportunity to do so. Now there's a reason for this somewhere but only Robin knows it and that's because he's a genius.

 

But credit Robin for finally deciding it was time to pour a little baking soda on the massive grease fire. Clearly he's an excellent manager because he eventually decided to address an extremely obvious and glaring problem.

Edited June 28, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[Dick Allen]

We're on our fourth closer of the season already, essentially.

 

Jones, Lindstrom, Belisario and now ??? (Guerra/Petricka).

 

If you go with the "hot hand," how many blown saves do they get to prove they're not the hot hand? There's just no way that this strategy, with the talent we have remaining in our pen (or lack thereof), is going to yield anything close to an 80-85% save conversion rate.

 

Who would even be the "hot hand" now? Petricka? Putnam? Guerra? They each have their own unique set of pro's and con's.

 

The ONLY time the pen was working well was when Putnam knew he was the 7th inning guy, Belisario 8th and Lindstrom 9th. If you keep changing their roles every night, it just won't work very effectively. Bullpens need to have consistency and established roles...defined expectations.

 

First off, Jones was never the closer. The pen was also horrible at the beginning of the season, but had a good stretch. There are a lot of gas cans in this bullpen, and a lot of guys who have a difficult time throwing strikes. Roles can be established, but it is impossible to establish roles for ineffective pitchers.w

[caulfield12]

First off, Jones was never the closer. The pen was also horrible at the beginning of the season, but had a good stretch. There are a lot of gas cans in this bullpen, and a lot of guys who have a difficult time throwing strikes. Roles can be established, but it is impossible to establish roles for ineffective pitchers.w

 

You really believe that Lindstrom was the planned closer from the time they signed him in the off-season?

 

I don't remember it being that clear at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

You really believe that Lindstrom was the planned closer from the time they signed him in the off-season?

 

I don't remember it being that clear at all.

Doesn't matter if he was the planned closer when they resigned him, he was the planned closer on opening day and Nate Jones was a setup man before he got injured.

[Eminor3rd]

We're on our fourth closer of the season already, essentially.

 

Jones, Lindstrom, Belisario and now ??? (Guerra/Petricka).

 

If you go with the "hot hand," how many blown saves do they get to prove they're not the hot hand? There's just no way that this strategy, with the talent we have remaining in our pen (or lack thereof), is going to yield anything close to an 80-85% save conversion rate.

 

Who would even be the "hot hand" now? Petricka? Putnam? Guerra? They each have their own unique set of pro's and con's.

 

The ONLY time the pen was working well was when Putnam knew he was the 7th inning guy, Belisario 8th and Lindstrom 9th. If you keep changing their roles every night, it just won't work very effectively. Bullpens need to have consistency and established roles...defined expectations.

 

Lol, and that's worked SO well so far.

 

Also, a tangent point, I really hate how the whole "defined roles are the only way anyone can perform" adage is treated like some law of physics. Why do we accept that these guys need to be coddled and handed excuses? Your name is called -- get guys out! That's it! Quit being a weiner and do your goddamn job.

 

The closer is the only guy who really has a predictable timetable anyway. Every other reliever could be called on at any time from the 6th to the end of the game depending upon matchups and how deep the starter goes. The "setup guy" probably gets the 8th inning in maybe 50% of the games, and that's only if he's the right handedness.

 

It's all a bunch of agent crap, IMO. RPs are supposed to go in and get batters out. Don't allow runs somewhere between 8:30 and 10:00 at night. Doesn't matter what inning it's in, and if you're so delicate that you can only perform if you can pinpoint the exact moment that you'll get your ten minutes of work in, then go back to the Bush League.

[JoshPR]

Good post, agree 100 %

[ptatc]

Doesn't matter if he was the planned closer when they resigned him, he was the planned closer on opening day and Nate Jones was a setup man before he got injured.

I don't think so. I think it was planned for Jones to be the closer once Reed was traded.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Lol, and that's worked SO well so far.

 

Also, a tangent point, I really hate how the whole "defined roles are the only way anyone can perform" adage is treated like some law of physics. Why do we accept that these guys need to be coddled and handed excuses? Your name is called -- get guys out! That's it! Quit being a weiner and do your goddamn job.

 

The closer is the only guy who really has a predictable timetable anyway. Every other reliever could be called on at any time from the 6th to the end of the game depending upon matchups and how deep the starter goes. The "setup guy" probably gets the 8th inning in maybe 50% of the games, and that's only if he's the right handedness.

 

It's all a bunch of agent crap, IMO. RPs are supposed to go in and get batters out. Don't allow runs somewhere between 8:30 and 10:00 at night. Doesn't matter what inning it's in, and if you're so delicate that you can only perform if you can pinpoint the exact moment that you'll get your ten minutes of work in, then go back to the Bush League.

I think it's more of a mental/preparedness thing. When you have an idea when you will be coming in you are more "ready" than you would be otherwise. I think it's a comfort thing.

 

Also the lack of established roles often leads to having to work multiple innings one day, a single batter the next, one inning here, two guys there, etc. and that can create an odd work/rest habit for a pitcher. Hawk always talks about how everyone needs a routine, and really that's true in life in general.

 

Re: the inning stuff, it's not really an "inning" thing as much as a situational thing. Managers don't necessarily go to their closer in the 9th, they go to their closer in the ninth if they are winning, or maybe late in the 8th if they are winning, or maybe in the 11th after they've taken the lead, or top of the ninth with a tie playing at home sometimes, etc. A closer closes out games, a setup man deals with generally higher leverage situations, whether it is coming in for the 8th to start a clean inning and bridge to the closer or coming in with 1 out in the 7th to get the big double play or whatever, just basically dealing with men on. And so on. Players can read the course/flow of the game and can start to see when they will need to appear. If you are a good SU guy on a team with another good SU guy and you pitched last night, and your starter definitely looks like he is going 7, then you pretty much know you aren't getting in unless it is a catastrophy. Of course the other side of that is if every single day is a catastrophy, and you're spending a lot of time losing and behind on the scoreboard, regardless of inning, you can't really establish roles anyway. And now we seem to be in this spot, and it kind of becomes exactly like you say, where either you come in and get outs or you probably get released, sent back down to the minors, etc.

 

Generally there isn't much you can do with a s*** bullpen. One thing you definitely CAN do however is give trust to the guys who have earned it. Robin's lack of trust in Putnam this year has pissed me off and is absolutely stupid. Let him prove he can't get the lefty out, let him prove he walked the guy because he's lost it, etc. The f***ing guy has earned it.

Edited June 28, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[southsider2k5]

Lol, and that's worked SO well so far.

 

Also, a tangent point, I really hate how the whole "defined roles are the only way anyone can perform" adage is treated like some law of physics. Why do we accept that these guys need to be coddled and handed excuses? Your name is called -- get guys out! That's it! Quit being a weiner and do your goddamn job.

 

The closer is the only guy who really has a predictable timetable anyway. Every other reliever could be called on at any time from the 6th to the end of the game depending upon matchups and how deep the starter goes. The "setup guy" probably gets the 8th inning in maybe 50% of the games, and that's only if he's the right handedness.

 

It's all a bunch of agent crap, IMO. RPs are supposed to go in and get batters out. Don't allow runs somewhere between 8:30 and 10:00 at night. Doesn't matter what inning it's in, and if you're so delicate that you can only perform if you can pinpoint the exact moment that you'll get your ten minutes of work in, then go back to the Bush League.

 

How well would you do if your boss walked in tomorrow and told you that you were doing someone else's job?

[Eminor3rd]

How well would you do if your boss walked in tomorrow and told you that you were doing someone else's job?

 

Happens every day. I work in minor league baseball -- we pull tarp, we take tickets, we hand out programs, then turn around and meet with vendors and clients, do media buys, and show up at charity events.

 

And, in the case of a reliever, my whole point is that it ISN'T really someone else's job. The job is to pitch for a short stint, and the goal is to not allow runs. It's the same job in slightly different situations. It would be like if you were a waiter at the bar area, and someone asked you to be the waiter for the outside porch one day. You'd do just fine.

[Eminor3rd]

I think it's more of a mental/preparedness thing. When you have an idea when you will be coming in you are more "ready" than you would be otherwise. I think it's a comfort thing.

 

Also the lack of established roles often leads to having to work multiple innings one day, a single batter the next, one inning here, two guys there, etc. and that can create an odd work/rest habit for a pitcher. Hawk always talks about how everyone needs a routine, and really that's true in life in general.

 

Re: the inning stuff, it's not really an "inning" thing as much as a situational thing. Managers don't necessarily go to their closer in the 9th, they go to their closer in the ninth if they are winning, or maybe late in the 8th if they are winning, or maybe in the 11th after they've taken the lead, or top of the ninth with a tie playing at home sometimes, etc. A closer closes out games, a setup man deals with generally higher leverage situations, whether it is coming in for the 8th to start a clean inning and bridge to the closer or coming in with 1 out in the 7th to get the big double play or whatever, just basically dealing with men on. And so on. Players can read the course/flow of the game and can start to see when they will need to appear. If you are a good SU guy on a team with another good SU guy and you pitched last night, and your starter definitely looks like he is going 7, then you pretty much know you aren't getting in unless it is a catastrophy. Of course the other side of that is if every single day is a catastrophy, and you're spending a lot of time losing and behind on the scoreboard, regardless of inning, you can't really establish roles anyway. And now we seem to be in this spot, and it kind of becomes exactly like you say, where either you come in and get outs or you probably get released, sent back down to the minors, etc.

 

Generally there isn't much you can do with a s*** bullpen. One thing you definitely CAN do however is give trust to the guys who have earned it. Robin's lack of trust in Putnam this year has pissed me off and is absolutely stupid. Let him prove he can't get the lefty out, let him prove he walked the guy because he's lost it, etc. The f***ing guy has earned it.

 

Yeah, so be prepared to come in any time between the 6th and 9th. As long as that is the expectation, that is really not at all an unreasonable request.

 

Be prepared to get dudes out tonight when the starter needs help.