Worst President since WWII?

[Jenksismyhero]

Context: an important thing.

 

I was responding to YOUR post in which you said "any" list. What sense does it make to say "any" list when the topic was supposedly limited to "a" list?

 

[StrangeSox]

jesus christ

[Jenksismyhero]

lol Reagan was good because he had a good campaign slogan?

 

I'm saying that was one positive. I agree Reagan is overrated for a lot of things, but there's no question one of the best things he did was to restore a sense of nationalism and pride in being an American.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

jesus christ

 

I guess sorry for reading your post so literally?

[StrangeSox]

*for some values of American

[StrangeSox]

I guess sorry for reading your post so literally?

You should be sorry for reading my post in a thread asking people to make their own lists about "Worst President since WWII" to mean "Worst President EVA!"

 

edit: a list of "worst President for domestic racial oppression/genocide" might be pretty interesting, but by default everyone pre-Lincoln is worse than everyone post-Lincoln with Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson getting special mention, and everyone post-Lincoln but pre-LBJ is by default worse than everyone post-LBJ/CRA.

Edited July 3, 2014 by StrangeSox

[Chisoxfn]

I think the biggest misconception is people think everyone is looking for hand outs. People maybe looking for help, and rightfully so, and have even gotten said help with stuff he is done.

I don't know anyone personally that says they are looking for "hand outs" and I think it's a generalization put out by certain people.

Statistically, more people receive government support then any point in time in the countries history. Now I'm not sure if that is adjusted as a % of population so it trends better historically or not but that was a stat I saw about 6-12 months ago in a journal article.

[StrangeSox]

Statistically, more people receive government support then any point in time in the countries history. Now I'm not sure if that is adjusted as a % of population so it trends better historically or not but that was a stat I saw about 6-12 months ago in a journal article.

Wages have been stagnant since the 1980's while cost of living has continued to climb and we've had a stagnant job market for a long time now.

[chw42]

Statistically, more people receive government support then any point in time in the countries history. Now I'm not sure if that is adjusted as a % of population so it trends better historically or not but that was a stat I saw about 6-12 months ago in a journal article.

 

I have a real hard time believing that the percentage of people receiving government help right now is greater than it was during the Great depression.

 

It's probably the overall number, which is extremely misleading since we have 3x as many people now in this country.

[StrangeSox]

I have a real hard time believing that the percentage of people receiving government help right now is greater than it was during the Great depression.

 

It's probably the overall number, which is extremely misleading since we have 3x as many people now in this country.

 

It might depend on how you define "government help." We didn't have Medicaid/Medicare, Social Security and other poverty relief programs back then. But we had worse poverty, which is why we implemented those programs in the first place.

 

edit: another example might be the soup kitchen lines that are iconic of the Great Depression. Instead we give out food stamps these days, which definitely get counted as government support, but I'm not sure public soup kitchens would show up on Great Depression statistics. The soup kitchens weren't government support, but they were still essential support people needed to get by. Whether it's provided by local food banks or some level of government, the underlying needs are the same.

Edited July 3, 2014 by StrangeSox

[knightni]

Truman and Ford were both pretty bad.

 

Carter was not prepared for the job and GW Bush bankrupted us.

 

[Y2HH]

Truman and Ford were both pretty bad.

 

Carter was not prepared for the job and GW Bush bankrupted us.

 

Just like to point out that we were bankrupt before GW Bush was ever president.

 

Clinton balancing the budget is NOT the same as paying down debt (which he paid down zero of). And while the trillions number grew under Bush and Obama, we were into the trillions well before them, as by 1989 we were already approaching 3 trillion, and by 1999 it was approaching 6.

[StrangeSox]

Just like to point out that we were bankrupt before GW Bush was ever president.

 

Clinton balancing the budget is NOT the same as paying down debt (which he paid down zero of). And while the trillions number grew under Bush and Obama, we were into the trillions well before them, as by 1989 we were already approaching 3 trillion, and by 1999 it was approaching 6.

 

thanks a lot, Reagan!

[Iwritecode]

I think the biggest misconception is people think everyone is looking for hand outs. People maybe looking for help, and rightfully so, and have even gotten said help with stuff he is done.

I don't know anyone personally that says they are looking for "hand outs" and I think it's a generalization put out by certain people.

 

I know a few people. They won’t come right out and say it in so many words, but they sure don’t have any motivation to stop receiving that check from the government and actually go out and look for a job to support themselves. They are perfectly content letting other people support them.

[Harry Chappas]

I'm being serious. His campaign in '80 was "let's restore America."

 

 

The inauguration freeing of the captives in Iraq did that and Ronny sailed on from there.

 

Weren't interest rates in the 20% range under Reagan or was that the after affect of Carter.

 

I also heard from older folks that Nixon was a great president but was in the shadow of Kennedy and was paranoid as hell which lead to watergate.

[Chisoxfn]

I know a few people. They won’t come right out and say it in so many words, but they sure don’t have any motivation to stop receiving that check from the government and actually go out and look for a job to support themselves. They are perfectly content letting other people support them.

I knew people making 50-60K who lost there jobs at had zero motivation. In fact, the vast majority that lost their job in the recession, could have easily found other jobs, but opted out of it to sit around. Those were people with degrees who were qualified. They were "looking" if you mean, waiting around for a check hoping for a dream job to show up. Turned down other jobs which were comparable to what they had because it wasn't what they really really wanted and the cost/benefit of taking a job in their current spot vs. the government incentive wasn't that bad.

 

I'd roughly say there were 20+ people I knew that did this at one point in time or another (some being good friends vs. just acquaintances / people within my work network).

[StrangeSox]

The inauguration freeing of the captives in Iraq did that and Ronny sailed on from there.

 

Weren't interest rates in the 20% range under Reagan or was that the after affect of Carter.

 

I also heard from older folks that Nixon was a great president but was in the shadow of Kennedy and was paranoid as hell which lead to watergate.

The high interest rates were what Paul Volcker, head of the Federal Reserve at the time, did to break the stagflation of the late 70's.

 

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=375

[Iwritecode]

I knew people making 50-60K who lost there jobs at had zero motivation. In fact, the vast majority that lost their job in the recession, could have easily found other jobs, but opted out of it to sit around. Those were people with degrees who were qualified. They were "looking" if you mean, waiting around for a check hoping for a dream job to show up. Turned down other jobs which were comparable to what they had because it wasn't what they really really wanted and the cost/benefit of taking a job in their current spot vs. the government incentive wasn't that bad.

 

I'd roughly say there were 20+ people I knew that did this at one point in time or another (some being good friends vs. just acquaintances / people within my work network).

 

It sounds like those were at least temporary situations. A couple of the people I know have literally made it a lifestyle. One hasn’t had a job in the 10 plus years I’ve known him and another has never worked a day in her entire life.

[Chisoxfn]

It sounds like those were at least temporary situations. A couple of the people I know have literally made it a lifestyle. One hasn’t had a job in the 10 plus years I’ve known him and another has never worked a day in her entire life.

By temporary, it was pretty much 2 years (given the extended unemployment benefits that were out there). I still consider that pretty long-term.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I know a few people. They won’t come right out and say it in so many words, but they sure don’t have any motivation to stop receiving that check from the government and actually go out and look for a job to support themselves. They are perfectly content letting other people support them.

 

Yeah one of our friend's girlfriends was pulling that s***. She was a server for years, from chains to mid tier to bars to not quite 5 star but pretty nice restaurants. Well, she went back to school in late 20's (commendable) but couldn't retain the good server position due to limited hours. So, she filed for unemployment and in the mean time only sent her application to the highest quality restaurants over and over knowing she wouldn't get a job so she could prove she was trying. Then, got a part time bartending job under the table and continued receiving the gov't check. Also turning down part time hobs because the pay would be about the same as the check. Both of them were okay with what they were doing because "they deserved it since they've paid into the system for a while". The rationale that it was okay because of that and because she was now a student disgusted a few of us and unfortunately has driven a small wedge between us. We're still friends, but things aren't as close as they used to be. The feeling that it was "owed to them" I do think is more prevalent in society than it has been in the past

Edited July 3, 2014 by ChiSox_Sonix

[caulfield12]

Statistically, more people receive government support then any point in time in the countries history. Now I'm not sure if that is adjusted as a % of population so it trends better historically or not but that was a stat I saw about 6-12 months ago in a journal article.

 

And we also have the highest amount of retirees (due to the Baby Boomer generation hitting retirement age within the last five years) at any point in our nation's history.

 

If you strip away retirees and those on disability from that supposed 47%, what are you left with?

 

It's certainly not those on foods stamps/WIC/AFDC/Medicaid because those programs have been cut down in many states almost to zero.

 

Does that also include those, for example, who received the earned income tax credit...working/underemployed poor?

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The inauguration freeing of the captives in Iraq did that and Ronny sailed on from there.

 

Weren't interest rates in the 20% range under Reagan or was that the after affect of Carter.

 

I also heard from older folks that Nixon was a great president but was in the shadow of Kennedy and was paranoid as hell which lead to watergate.

 

 

Iran....Carter was the high interest rates and "national malaise/I sinned in my heart" president.

 

Smart enough to run a nuclear submarine, best "after Presidency," but had no idea how to work with Congress or delegate. Completely ineffective/inept. But it was the inability to resolve the hostage crisis quickly and Americans' overall sense of weakness that pushed Reagan over the top in 1980.

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Iran....Carter was the high interest rates and "national malaise/I sinned in my heart" president.

 

Smart enough to run a nuclear submarine, best "after Presidency," but had no idea how to work with Congress or delegate. Completely ineffective/inept. But it was the inability to resolve the hostage crisis quickly and Americans' overall sense of weakness that pushed Reagan over the top in 1980.

[caulfield12]

 

 

Yes, this chart is basically the same thing as blaming the economic numbers in the first 2-3 years of the Obama presidency on Bush...just like some will blame them on Reagan.

 

Nevertheless, interest rates were beginning to escalate the last two years under Carter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_inflation_now Remember that? It started under Ford, so it was already a growing problem even BEFORE Carter.

 

 

 

As far as Reagan being ranked highly, it's just like Truman. Democrats will rate Truman/Kennedy/Clinton/LBJ very highly, Republicans Reagan and Eisenhower. Love him or hate him, and he was intensely polarizing...from the pure perspective of "things accomplished" he and Thatcher had a huge impact that has lasted until today in terms of reversing the government tide and stacking the deck in favor of the rich/elites through fiscal and monetary policies, Supply Side Economics, etc.

 

The Republicans/Greenspan are credited with bringing that inflation number WAY down in the second four years of his presidency...as well as being credited for winning the Cold War and bankrupting the USSR.

Edited July 3, 2014 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

Yes, this chart is basically the same thing as blaming the economic numbers in the first 2-3 years of the Obama presidency on Bush...just like some will blame them on Reagan.

 

Nevertheless, interest rates were beginning to escalate the last two years under Carter.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_inflation_now Remember that? It started under Ford, so it was already a growing problem even BEFORE Carter.

 

 

 

As far as Reagan being ranked highly, it's just like Truman. Democrats will rate Truman/Kennedy/Clinton/LBJ very highly, Republicans Reagan and Eisenhower. Love him or hate him, and he was intensely polarizing...from the pure perspective of "things accomplished" he and Thatcher had a huge impact that has lasted until today in terms of reversing the government tide and stacking the deck in favor of the rich/elites through fiscal and monetary policies, Supply Side Economics, etc.

 

The Republicans/Greenspan are credited with bringing that inflation number WAY down in the second four years of his presidency...as well as being credited for winning the Cold War and bankrupting the USSR.

 

Paul Volcker intentionally spiked the interest rates to stamp out inflation.