BlackSox13 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) Seattle is perhaps the worst park for hitters in baseball. Guys like Ackley may have a bat that will better fit in at USCF than at SafeCo. I would certainly take a flier on him as a throw in on a deal. Trading Viciedo for a RP is just dumb when that is really the only thing that our farm system develops consistently. A team that has desperately been trying to fill the two voids in the rotation would be dumb for trading for a younger right handed pitcher? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) Seattle is perhaps the worst park for hitters in baseball. Guys like Ackley may have a bat that will better fit in at USCF than at SafeCo. I would certainly take a flier on him as a throw in on a deal. Trading Viciedo for a RP is just dumb when that is really the only thing that our farm system develops consistently. Cotillo mentioned names like Leone, Farquhar and Maruer are names that could be mentioned. I'd take Farquhar and Maurer easily. Maurer can develop into a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) Seattle is perhaps the worst park for hitters in baseball. Guys like Ackley may have a bat that will better fit in at USCF than at SafeCo. I would certainly take a flier on him as a throw in on a deal. Trading Viciedo for a RP is just dumb when that is really the only thing that our farm system develops consistently. Ackley's road ops is lousy too. And he has 16 homers in 900+ road ABs. And like I said, need more than than Maurer, whom I certainly would look to try to convert back to a starter anyway - that's the possible upside with him. Honestly, I think Seattle is a team that needs some of our players, but I don't think we need what they have available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I LOVE the idea of getting a big armed prospect from Seattle. That club has been known for its young pitching prospects for a while now. Lots of guys with talent that didn't turn out... but we have COOP. YES PLEASE on making deals with Seattle that bring back talented pitching. YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES PLEASE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 We're already 306-4 over our last 310 games vs. Seattle. We get Maurer+ out of them and next time we face them they'll get Noesi-Lefty-Maurer in a 3 game set and they'll score like 2 runs the whole series. YES PLEASE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) A team that has desperately been trying to fill the two voids in the rotation would be dumb for trading for a younger right handed pitcher? Really? Yes, to make yourself worse at a position to add depth to your deepest organizational position is dumb. We probably have 3-4 guys in the org that will be able to step in as ML relievers in the next couple of seasons in addition to Webb, Petricka, and Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) Yes, to make yourself worse at a position to add depth to your deepest organizational position is dumb. We probably have 3-4 guys in the org that will be able to step in as ML relievers in the next couple of seasons in addition to Webb, Petricka, and Jones. If the Sox pitching depth is so deep, why are we having problems filling holes? The Sox have called up this organizational depth and failed. The Sox have tried rehab projects and those too have failed. Hell, the Sox were so desperate they signed Noesi after Texas released him shorty after the Sox kicked his ass.I'm glad he's pitching better for the Sox but that's pretty desperate. So, where is this depth? Still in AA and below for the time being which does nothing to help the Sox right now. I'll gladly take that kid from Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) If the Sox pitching depth is so deep, why are we having problems filling holes? The Sox have called up this organizational depth and failed. The Sox have tried rehab projects and those too have failed. Hell, the Sox were so desperate they signed Noesi after Texas released him shorty after the Sox kicked his ass.I'm glad he's pitching better for the Sox but that's pretty desperate. So, where is this depth? Still in AA and below for the time being which does nothing to help the Sox right now. I'll gladly take that kid from Seattle. Jones is hurt, he'll be back. Noesi is a starting pitcher, Maurer is a RP which doesn't help with the depth issues at SP. Noesi is also a guy that the Sox have targeted since he was in the Yankees organization. While not helping the rotation issues, it does create an issue in the OF though as the Sox have nothing in the system that is even projected to replicate the production of Viciedo. So you make your line-up significantly worse to make your bullpen marginally better. And no, the depth in AA does not help the Sox right now and if a bullpen arm was all the Sox needed to make a run for the playoffs a deal like that would make sense, but when there are so many wholes in the roster it doesn't make good sense to add to your bullpen. If Maurer could be a starter he would be one now as Seattle has their own rotation issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) Jones is hurt, he'll be back. Noesi is a starting pitcher, Maurer is a RP which doesn't help with the depth issues at SP. Noesi is also a guy that the Sox have targeted since he was in the Yankees organization. While not helping the rotation issues, it does create an issue in the OF though as the Sox have nothing in the system that is even projected to replicate the production of Viciedo. So you make your line-up significantly worse to make your bullpen marginally better. And no, the depth in AA does not help the Sox right now and if a bullpen arm was all the Sox needed to make a run for the playoffs a deal like that would make sense, but when there are so many wholes in the roster it doesn't make good sense to add to your bullpen. If Maurer could be a starter he would be one now as Seattle has their own rotation issues. Maurer is a very young kid who started in the minors after being drafted out of high school. Started the full year in 2012 at AA, pitched 140 innings as a 21 year old. Got called up to the big leagues at 22 and, unsurprisingly, struggled. Looking at his stats I genuinely can't fathom why they called him up last year and used him as a starter. Maybe their plan for him long term was always the bullpen and maybe they want to keep him there, but he at least has a background as a starter and he could definitely have benefited from more time in the minors working as a starter unless they wanted him in the bullpen long-term. But if they did, no idea why they called him up and used him as a starter. He may not be ready to be a big league starter right now but the Mariners acted like they thought he would be when he was called up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Jones is hurt, he'll be back. Noesi is a starting pitcher, Maurer is a RP which doesn't help with the depth issues at SP. Well, Noesi is a starter NOW. In 2011, 2013 and 14 he was used primarily in relief for Seattle. He started a lot in 2012, but unsuccessfully. Maurer was only recently moved to relief. He spent most of his time as starter in Seattle, albeit ineffectively. Noesi was marginally better (ERA in high 5s v. low 6s for Maurer). Now they are not the same pitcher, and if the Sox don't have a "We can fix him and turn him into a starter" feel about Maurer, we shouldn't bother with him. And of course we got NOesi for absolutely nothing, so there was no risk. Edited July 9, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Jones is hurt, he'll be back. Noesi is a starting pitcher, Maurer is a RP which doesn't help with the depth issues at SP. Noesi is also a guy that the Sox have targeted since he was in the Yankees organization. While not helping the rotation issues, it does create an issue in the OF though as the Sox have nothing in the system that is even projected to replicate the production of Viciedo. So you make your line-up significantly worse to make your bullpen marginally better. And no, the depth in AA does not help the Sox right now and if a bullpen arm was all the Sox needed to make a run for the playoffs a deal like that would make sense, but when there are so many wholes in the roster it doesn't make good sense to add to your bullpen. If Maurer could be a starter he would be one now as Seattle has their own rotation issues. I see where the confusion is. I'm talking about Ramirez, not Maurer. The reason I take Ramirez is due to the holes in the rotation. Ramirez is still young, right handed and a starting pitcher which is why I'd take him. I get what you're saying about Viciedo, I just don't see the Sox missing out on much if they trade him. Provided the return helps the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) I see where the confusion is. I'm talking about Ramirez, not Maurer. The reason I take Ramirez is due to the holes in the rotation. Ramirez is still young, right handed and a starting pitcher which is why I'd take him. I get what you're saying about Viciedo, I just don't see the Sox missing out on much if they trade him. Provided the return helps the team. Players who will project to hit 15 or more homers next season: Abreu maybe Garcia How is that going to play at USCF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) Players who will project to hit 15 or more homers next season: Abreu maybe Garcia How is that going to play at USCF? About as well as his poor defense, poor BA, poor OBP, poor walk totals. There's more to offense than home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Players who will project to hit 15 or more homers next season: Abreu maybe Garcia How is that going to play at USCF? We should focus on getting good hitters, power or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Well he is in just his 3rd year, he goes the other way, his K rate isn't awful, and his walk rate of 7%, while not high, isn't the worst and is better than several other Sox starters. And his arm is not only strong, but accurate. I don't think he's a lost cause. But he cuts at too many pitches that are too hard to hit - if he could relax on that, he'd trade a lot of outs for walks. Still a project, which may mean that good teams won't give a lot for him; but the Sox shouldn't cast him off eithre. Edited July 9, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) Players who will project to hit 15 or more homers next season: Abreu maybe Garcia How is that going to play at USCF? Not seeing the logic here. Park factors act as moving reference points; they don't change the amount of runs required to win. They affect both teams equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:05 PM) We should focus on getting good hitters, power or no. Correct, but we also need a balanced offense. Can't play 81 games at the Cell without multiple power threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) Correct, but we also need a balanced offense. Can't play 81 games at the Cell without multiple power threats. Why not? All the park factor does is move the standard for normal for both teams. If we have a bunch of power-less hitters, they'll still hit more homers at USCF than at a neutral park. And that will be equalized by the fact that opponents will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) Not seeing the logic here. Park factors act as moving reference points; they don't change the amount of runs required to win. They affect both teams equally. Except we play at our park 81 times and the opposing team does not? Why wouldn't we tailor our offense around the characteristics of our park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:19 PM) Why not? All the park factor does is move the standard for normal for both teams. If we have a bunch of power-less hitters, they'll still hit more homers at USCF than at a neutral park. And that will be equalized by the fact that opponents will too. You're telling me all hitters benefit the same from playing at the Cell? I'll call BS on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) Players who will project to hit 15 or more homers next season: Abreu maybe Garcia How is that going to play at USCF? Our payroll next year is basically $4. We should be buying some proven power in FA or in trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) Our payroll next year is basically $4. We should be buying some proven power in FA or in trade. Who are the power hitters that will be available in free agency and will they sign with us? What will it cost to acquire one via trade? Worst case scenario, Viciedo gives us an insurance policy in the event we don't like those answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) Not seeing the logic here. Park factors act as moving reference points; they don't change the amount of runs required to win. They affect both teams equally. I don't believe that they don't change the number of runs required to win. I believe that the average score of the winning team in all games at the Cell is higher than the average score of the winning team in every game at PetCo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) Our payroll next year is basically $4. We should be buying some proven power in FA or in trade. Trade who? What power hitters under 30 are available, exactly, on the FA market? Colby Rasmus? There aren't many, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) I don't believe that they don't change the number of runs required to win. I believe that the average score of the winning team in all games at the Cell is higher than the average score of the winning team in every game at PetCo. Not a coincidence that our best teams in recent years (2000, 2003, 2005-2006, 2008, 2010, 2012) put up a ton of homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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