Teams Interested in Viciedo

[RockRaines]

Maybe they know a little bit more about scouting and talent evaluation than the average internet website poster, myself included.

Yes but that's the type of player that gets kept because of upside, and trading for him is much more of a gamble. At this point it's pretty obvious what type of player he will probably be.

[GGajewski18]

The fact that teams are talking about sending young pitching for Viciedo probably tells us that the league doesn't think as little of him as Sox fans do.

 

Completely agree. Teams know he has high potential.

[GGajewski18]

Those speculative Red Sox offers are silly. I would throw in a bag of balls and drive everyone to the airport to make that happen.

 

I still think Viciedo is worth a lot more than what you guys think of him.

[chitownsportsfan]

Riddle me this: If Viciedo is so highly regarded why was he relegated to a bench role before Avi's injury?

 

Team's know what he is, the Sox know better than anyone.

 

Viciedo OPS+ last three years, 98, 96, 92. And that over-rates his line because his OBP is awful, .296 this year.

 

You can't make that many damn outs unless you have Jose Abreu power or Billy Hamilton's speed or Mike Trout's defense. Viciedo has none of that.

 

I hope the Mariners, in the ecstasy of not being awful for once, overpay for him, I really do, but Viciedo is not a high upside guy or a good player right now. He's a guy with bat speed as his best tool that can't hit above 260. That's a problem.

Edited July 4, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[GGajewski18]

Care to expound on this without using the word upside?

 

Whether you can see it or not, his plate discipline has gotten better. I mean of course your going to swing at balls out of the zone but he has gotten better of laying off the curveball or slider in the dirt. His K% has gone down each year while his walk rate has gone up each year including this year.

 

It's just his swing of course is that he takes a home run hack every single time it looks like, with his bat speed, and the way the ball flies off his bat, if he can just shorten it up a little bit, he could hit for a better average. Time will tell though, and I know some have given up.

 

Whether its with the White Sox or not, the kid is 25, yes we as a board have given examples of late bloomers but with the raw talent he has, you don't want to give him up for nothing like some teams have done in the past. It's all about patience with some players, in my opinion Viciedo is worth waiting for whether its in LF, RF or DH.

 

With that said, if the right deal where the Sox can get a couple of quality pitchers, I would trade him because pitching is indeed more important and Hahn can replace his bat within the system (or stop gap De Aza), free agency, or trade.

 

 

[TaylorStSox]

We're rebuilding. We have a 25 year old with tremendous power to all fields. He's still under team control. It's pretty simple really. Chances are he never figures it out, but there absolutely no prospects pushing him. I'm not sure what the big deal is really.

 

I don't give a s*** if the Sox deal him or not. I just don't see much sense in moving him for little to no value.

Edited July 4, 2014 by TaylorStSox

[GGajewski18]

We're rebuilding. We have a 25 year old with tremendous power to all fields. He's still under team control. It's pretty simple really. Chances are he never figures it out, but there absolutely no prospects pushing him. I'm. It sure what the big deal is really.

 

I don't give a s*** if the Sox deal him or not. I just don't see much sense in moving him for little to no value.

 

Boom. Some guys just don't see that.

[chitownsportsfan]

Whether you can see it or not, his plate discipline has gotten better. I mean of course your going to swing at balls out of the zone but he has gotten better of laying off the curveball or slider in the dirt. His K% has gone down each year while his walk rate has gone up each year including this year.

 

It's just his swing of course is that he takes a home run hack every single time it looks like, with his bat speed, and the way the ball flies off his bat, if he can just shorten it up a little bit, he could hit for a better average. Time will tell though, and I know some have given up.

 

Whether its with the White Sox or not, the kid is 25, yes we as a board have given examples of late bloomers but with the raw talent he has, you don't want to give him up for nothing like some teams have done in the past. It's all about patience with some players, in my opinion Viciedo is worth waiting for whether its in LF, RF or DH.

 

With that said, if the right deal where the Sox can get a couple of quality pitchers, I would trade him because pitching is indeed more important and Hahn can replace his bat within the system (or stop gap De Aza), free agency, or trade.

 

Yea, but it's come at the expense of average. His oZone% is done to 30% (hey, good work Dayan), but he's only swinging at 68% of pitches in the zone. Yea, he's working counts more, but when your average is .242, you need a walk rate higher than 6%.

 

Otherwise his peripherals suggest a player sliding backwards imo. His HR/FB rate continues to decline. His popout percentage is up to 13.8%. His "run values" (relative to league average so runs + or - average) are also down. He's -4.0 runs on sliders this year (wow) and only at 1.7 runs above average on fastballs.

 

he's being more patient but as far as actually hitting the ball hard when he swings, he's going the wrong way.

[TaylorStSox]

His stats this year are anchored by his strong April. Away from April he has 22.1% K/PA and 4.9% BB/PA and both of those are worse than his career averages. His SLG, OPS and wRC are down in each of his full season efforts. He takes a home run hack every time up there and yet can only hit 9 HRs in 326 PAs. "If he can just shorten up" has been said for years and he hasn't been able to do so in 1500+ PAs.

 

He is a horrible fielder away from his arm and a terrible baserunner to boot. The Sox need to add offense moving forward and Viciedo plays the positions (or attempts to) where the FO can add the offense whether it be via trade or FA. Don't fall in love with guys because they play with your team.

Who's pushing him? What prospects or FA's? Cry about Viciedo, that's fine, but what's the alternative?

[SCCWS]

I'd be thrillied with Webster or Workman for Viciedo.

 

Actually I like DeLa Rosa the best. I do get the benefit to see them at AAA and Boston. Webster gives up too many homeruns although maybe that can be fixed. Workman seems to be struggling once he got in the Red Sox rotation. The Cubs really worked him over this week. But I would take a package of DeLaRosa and guessing they will throw in Nava which would would give us another LH outfield bat.

 

Hopefully Cherington feels Viciedo could tear up the wall in Fenway. Boy that would be a steal.

 

[GGajewski18]

Actually I like DeLa Rosa the best. I do get the benefit to see them at AAA and Boston. Webster gives up too many homeruns although maybe that can be fixed. Workman seems to be struggling once he got in the Red Sox rotation. The Cubs really worked him over this week. But I would take a package of DeLaRosa and guessing they will throw in Nava which would would give us another LH outfield bat.

 

Hopefully Cherington feels Viciedo could tear up the wall in Fenway. Boy that would be a steal.

 

The second player would not be from the current roster, it would be a prospect.

[chitownsportsfan]

Who's pushing him? What prospects or FA's? Cry about Viciedo, that's fine, but what's the alternative?

 

The alternative is a roster spot, which as I've been arguing, is more valuable than a .5 WAR player. Hahn has found some under-valued players (Eaton, Conor) so I'd rather give him the flexiblity to aquire another LF in the offseason rather than again being tied to Viciedo.

 

So you have the opportunity cost and the very real return that you might get for trading him.

 

So, trade him.

[GGajewski18]

The White Sox need to add value to the offense and his marginal play is covering a position that could address a need. So there is incentive to move him so they can bring in someone who actually plays to their potential and provides a middle-of-the-order type output.

 

I'd love Brandon Belt in the offseason. I don't know if he can still play LF but I'd love for him to be the left-handed 1B/DH/LF middle-of-the-order power source. He just turned 26 and could be pushed out of SF with Posey shifting over to 1B and Susac/Sanchez taking over the catching duties.

 

Talk about a guy finally figuring it out too. He hasn't done anything until this year, and then gets hurt.

[GGajewski18]

The alternative is a roster spot, which as I've been arguing, is more valuable than a .5 WAR player. Hahn has found some under-valued players (Eaton, Conor) so I'd rather give him the flexiblity to aquire another LF in the offseason rather than again being tied to Viciedo.

 

So you have the opportunity cost and the very real return that you might get for trading him.

 

So, trade him.

 

Yes you can trade him, but you have to make sure the value is there. If it's not there, then there is no point of making the deal. Sounds like you want him traded for pine tar.

[GGajewski18]

I am saying the Sox bring someone in the offseason. No one was pushing De Aza out of CF last season but the Sox do have a new CF this year don't they?

 

 

None of this was communicated nor will it happen. Some writer was throwing names like he knew what he was talking about.

 

Yes but acquiring that CF was during the off season and De Aza in CF was worse than Viciedo in LF.

[SCCWS]

The second player would not be from the current roster, it would be a prospect.

 

 

Nava is up because Victorino is injured. He has struggled all year both in ML and AAA. He is 31 years old

[GGajewski18]

Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo · 19m

Could the #Mariners finally land Dayan Viciedo this summer? Maybe if they send Brandon Maurer to the #WhiteSox http://sbnation.com/e/5635370

 

Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo · 17m

Heard yesterday that #Mariners are targeting RH bats at the deadline. Viciedo, who they've liked since 2012, fits. http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2014/7/4/58713...est-from-giants …

[TaylorStSox]

Good luck hoping a power hitting corner OF signs on to this s*** show. It did happen once, I guess. Dye signed and resurrected his career. Lightning in a bottle...maybe the Sox can catch it twice.

[chitownsportsfan]

I am literally LOL at the prospect of Viciedo in Safeco. I can see him hitting 240/290/350 for them, seriously.

[GGajewski18]

That was my point?

 

Ok, didn't know if you meant it during the season or not. Then if Hahn does acquire a LFer, then with the departure of Dunn, move Viciedo to DH.

[Balta1701]

I am with you. He'd be an abject failure if Seattle traded or him.

Have that many of his HR been cheap?

[TaylorStSox]

Dayan would hit a lot of doubles in Safeco. US Cellular is a great park to hit homers, but not a great hitter's park. The gaps play so small.

[Balta1701]

What's the difference? US Cellular is probably the second easiest place to hit a HR in baseball and SafeCo is of the worst. Do you propose that would have no bearing on a players HR totals?

Let's say that one player hits a lot of HR that just clear the wall. Another player hits fewer overall HR, but when he hits them he kills them.

 

If the Mariners acquired the former player, that player would suddenly lose a lot of his HR and be much less effective. On the other hand, the 2nd guy would still hit almost all of his HR and might get a few more doubles even because of the extra OF space. Given the ballpark adjustments, a guy who "when he hits them, he kills them" would be a a player who might be particularly useful to the mariners.

[Jake]

I don't see Tank being a great fit in Fenway. He's never been great at getting loft on the ball and he isn't a pull hitter in the air, either.

[mataipaepae]

Let's say that one player hits a lot of HR that just clear the wall. Another player hits fewer overall HR, but when he hits them he kills them.

 

If the Mariners acquired the former player, that player would suddenly lose a lot of his HR and be much less effective. On the other hand, the 2nd guy would still hit almost all of his HR and might get a few more doubles even because of the extra OF space. Given the ballpark adjustments, a guy who "when he hits them, he kills them" would be a a player who might be particularly useful to the mariners.

This right here. His average could see a spike with the extra space to hit into. And a lot of those could be doubles.

 

It's unfortunate some here can't see past their own nose.