RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) Well the key to the Cubs (and the Astros for that matter), is just the sheer depth of talent... They're going to be bringing them up in waves... They need pitching so it depends if they trade these guys now for it or if they wait and flip em for mlb pitching later. They have lots of right handed power bats at redundant positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 So don't the Cubs absolutely need to move Starlin Castro and like right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:00 AM) So don't the Cubs absolutely need to move Starlin Castro and like right now? Not if they plan on flipping prospects for other prospects. But I would for sure. Flip him for pitching ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) Not if they plan on flipping prospects for other prospects. But I would for sure. Flip him for pitching ASAP. Assuming he signs, would people trade Rodon for Russell or Bryant straight up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) Assuming he signs, would people trade Rodon for Russell or Bryant straight up? He'll sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) He'll sign. So answer the question. This winter when he's able to be traded, would you swap him straight up for Russell or Bryant? Because that's the kind of setup the Cubs are facing, needing a team to give up a talented pitcher for one of those hitters, if they're actually going to pull off a prospect for prospect swap. Personally if given the choice I lean towards the pitching but I'd be interested to see someone argue the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 07:08 AM) So answer the question. This winter when he's able to be traded, would you swap him straight up for Russell or Bryant? Because that's the kind of setup the Cubs are facing, needing a team to give up a talented pitcher for one of those hitters, if they're actually going to pull off a prospect for prospect swap. Personally if given the choice I lean towards the pitching but I'd be interested to see someone argue the other way. I wouldn't, because we'd probably figure out how to ruin him before he hits the big leagues But why would they trade prospects for prospects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) So answer the question. This winter when he's able to be traded, would you swap him straight up for Russell or Bryant? Because that's the kind of setup the Cubs are facing, needing a team to give up a talented pitcher for one of those hitters, if they're actually going to pull off a prospect for prospect swap. Personally if given the choice I lean towards the pitching but I'd be interested to see someone argue the other way. I really like Rodon and I like pitching more than minor league hitting. However we haven't seen Rodon pitch one pro inning yet so making that decision now is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 01:36 AM) I've noticed that no one is mentioning anywhere that I've seen that Addison Russell has suffered 2 desperate hamstring injuries this season, the latest one being a complete tear. He has only played 18 games this season as a result. I feel like that makes him a risk that Beane was willing to take by trading him. Billy Beane is not a dumb guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 06:55 AM) It is funny when the Sox acquire a prospect rated in the 70-95 range it is awesome, but when the Cubs get a top 15 guy, it is just dumb. Theo is a dope, but could you imagine what a genius Hahn would be if he had 3 of the top 15 and 6 of the top 41 in the Sox minor league system? Samardz has never finished a season as a starter with an ERA lower than 3.81. He is 29. He wants more than $100 million. This discussion is going EXACTLY how it would if the Sox made the same trade. Some people love it and some people hate it, not a surprise. In my opinion this is a great trade for the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) Assuming he signs, would people trade Rodon for Russell or Bryant straight up? Definitely not Russell but I'd be torn on Bryant. I think I'd say no though cause we need the pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 05:42 AM) If your goal is to have the #1farm system, it's agood trade. If your goal is to have an mlb pitching staff, not so much. But Jeff is a fa after this season and is/was going to test the market. They got a top 15 prospect for a guy that is going to want much more money than he deserves in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) Assuming he signs, would people trade Rodon for Russell or Bryant straight up? Yes. Particularly Bryant. As weird as it sounds, people are sleeping on Bryant. He's going to be an absolute superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 The problem is that the Cubs don't have as much leverage because everyone knows they have too many middle infielders in Castro, Baez and Russell. Unless Baez can play 3B, then they can't all fit together. Or then you move Alcantara, but how much is he really worth? Plus, Schwarber, Bryant and Rizzo can't fit into LF/1B. One of them will be the odd man out eventually. I have a feeling Russell will end up being closer to Jose Iglesias than Troy Tulowitzki. Beane's not the kind of GM to give up an impact SS unless he feels his offensive game wouldn't translate as well in the Coliseum. FWIW, this is the first time you can make the argument that the A's should be on equal footing with any team in the AL to reach the World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) Yes. Particularly Bryant. As weird as it sounds, people are sleeping on Bryant. He's going to be an absolute superstar. But his K rates have been in the 35-40% rate, haven't they? It doesn't matter if you hit 40+ homers, but if he's in the 25-30 range, it will become more of an issue unless he compensates for it with a bunch of walks as well. Even if he puts up Abreu-esque numbers, that still doesn't solve their pitching problems anymore than Jose being on the White Sox can fix the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) The problem is that the Cubs don't have as much leverage because everyone knows they have too many middle infielders in Castro, Baez and Russell. Unless Baez can play 3B, then they can't all fit together. Or then you move Alcantara, but how much is he really worth? Plus, Schwarber, Bryant and Rizzo can't fit into LF/1B. One of them will be the odd man out eventually. I have a feeling Russell will end up being closer to Jose Iglesias than Troy Tulowitzki. Beane's not the kind of GM to give up an impact SS unless he feels his offensive game wouldn't translate as well in the Coliseum. FWIW, this is the first time you can make the argument that the A's should be on equal footing with any team in the AL to reach the World Series. If all these guys can play SS, they have plenty of leverage. How many quality SS are available at any time and how many teams are looking for one? Besides, SS can always play other positions. The SS market will never be oversaturated. Beane will probably trade Samardzjia in the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) But Jeff is a fa after this season and is/was going to test the market. They got a top 15 prospect for a guy that is going to want much more money than he deserves in the offseason. He is a FA after 2015. It was a nice pick up but about what you would expect to get. Samarj is a good pitcher that got what they should have. No guarantee he is with Oakland this august and certainly not next. Problem with Bryant and Baez is that the K Rate is pretty high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:52 AM) He is a FA after 2015. It was a nice pick up but about what you would expect to get. Samarj is a good pitcher that got what they should have. No guarantee he is with Oakland this august and certainly not next. Problem with Bryant and Baez is that the K Rate is pretty high. Oops, for whatever reason I was under the impression that he was a fa after this season. Changes things a bit but still a great trade for them imo. Edited July 5, 2014 by Rowand44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) Oops, for whatever reason I was under the impression that he was a fa after this season. Changes things a bit but still a great trade for them imo. It is quite like the KC/TB trade. Sheilds for Myers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...,6736530.column The Cubs now have a rotation of Arrieta, Wood and Edwin Jackson....maybe Straily or N.Ramirez/Grimm fill those other two spots for the time being. Edwards and P. Johnson are setbacks on that front. In an ideal world, they have Bryant at 3B, Castro at SS, Baez at 2B, Rizzo at 1B, Soler in LF/RF, Alcantara (eventually Almora if he develops) in CF and McKinney out there somewhere in the OF as well. They're going to have to trade for a catcher at some point. They're also going to have to decide between Castro and Russell at SS, and what to do with Schwarber. Maybe he moves to LF. That means at least two of those outfield prospects are expendable as well in Soler/Almora/Alcantara/McKinney/Schwarber. So there's your ultimate trade that has to get a topline pitching prospect....Castro/Russell AND one or two of those outfielders. It's not like Olt has increased his value, and Almora/Soler are both down this season, so what does Russell and Alcantara/McKinney get you back? But wait. There’s more. Russell ranked fifth in Baseball America’s midseason list of prospects. The Cubs already had the No. 2 prospect in Kris Bryant and No. 7 in Javier Baez. I don’t believe the Cubs have ever owned three of the top seven prospects in my lifetime. That doesn’t make up for not winning a World Series in anybody’s lifetime, but that’s how you at least get there. McKinney, meanwhile, also ranks in the top 100, and both new Cubs prospects are 20 years old, not 30 or close the way Samardzija and Hammel are. The trade makes the Cubs’ major league team a lot worse and makes the minor league system the best in baseball. Perfect. That’s what the Cubs need and want right now. No use threatening .500 with the big club. No use making next year’s draft slot worse to continue stockpiling talent. No use keeping players who will be on the wrong side of 30 when the Cubs start contending. Edited July 5, 2014 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 08:57 AM) It is quite like the KC/TB trade. Sheilds for Myers. Sort of. Except Myers was instantly ready to compete for AL Rookie of the Year, whereas Russell's at least 1 year away, if not 2016. Then you also had Odorizzi as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Pretty good Trade Analysis by Fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cubs-athlet...billy-mckinney/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) If all these guys can play SS, they have plenty of leverage. How many quality SS are available at any time and how many teams are looking for one? Besides, SS can always play other positions. The SS market will never be oversaturated. Beane will probably trade Samardzjia in the winter. Quality CF'ers and SS will never be devalued. Those are prime positions to stock up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I like the trade for the cubs. I'm very curious where their starting staff is going to come from. As others have said unless they get some front end pitching they can expect to be the texas ranges of old. That said they've got two huge assets on the major league roster in Castro and Rizzo the rest should be filing in shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) Pretty good Trade Analysis by Fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cubs-athlet...billy-mckinney/ I agree with a lot of it. I still think any team with a good starter on the block wins here. If Danks continues to pitch well we could easily get a nice haul for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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