Samardzija/Hammel Traded to A's

[dpd9189]

All depends on what they get back for him. Oakland has six pitchers already...they have Milone parked there in AAA with a 2.62 ERA and 6-0 record in his last 11 starts but no spot in the rotation nevertheless.

 

If anything, it's more like the Jackson for Hudson/Holmberg move, or its equivalent in 2014. Sacrificing part of the future for a "win now/no excuses" mentality amongst the players.

 

With Cespedes on the market after 2015...their window is this year and next. That's pretty much it before they have to reload/retool again.

 

A lot of it rides on how JS does in the AL, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dempster and Garza stink it up when they were dealt to AL teams by the Cubs? The AL is a different animal, especially the AL West. I don't blame Beane for making this trade because I love seeing teams "go for it" but it's a very high risk high reward type trade on their end. If they win the WS then they can probably live with whatever the guys they traded to the Cubs wind up doing.

[caulfield12]

A lot of it rides on how JS does in the AL, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dempster and Garza stink it up when they were dealt to AL teams by the Cubs? The AL is a different animal, especially the AL West. I don't blame Beane for making this trade because I love seeing teams "go for it" but it's a very high risk high reward type trade on their end. If they win the WS then they can probably live with whatever the guys they traded to the Cubs wind up doing.

 

 

Offensively, the Angels and Astros (will soon) have the ability to be scary, but the Rangers are way down and the Mariners are all pitching and Safeco.

 

The Angels have Trout, of course...but Pujols and Hamilton aren't what they once were, and that line-up's been missing some thunder ever since they traded Trumbo. The reason they're winning is 1) Trout and 2) starting pitching.

[RockRaines]

Don't you think they're trying to put together the biggest collection of talented young players into the same window as possible?

 

They're accumulating assets, and they're accumulating the ones they believe have the most value. Then when the time comes, they'll trade the assets they don't need for those that they do need.

 

The obvious risk is that they miss the aforementioned "when the time comes."

Or they just dont develop like alot of prospects. There is risk involved here, and this is where GM's make their money.

[iamshack]

Or they just dont develop like alot of prospects. There is risk involved here, and this is where GM's make their money.

Of course, but what he's doing is acquiring as many of the most valued assets there currently are. As you pointed out, Shark was offered some pretty decent money and turned it down. He didn't want to be there, so they dealt him for the next best valuable commodity: promise.

 

Let's face it, the Cubs' window is probably 2-3 years away. They're going to bring all these guys up together and hope they can develop into a powerhouse. They've already locked up Rizzo and Castro. They'll have plenty of money leftover to plug some holes, and what they can't get with money, they will get with assets they don't need. It's really not that complicated.

 

It's like they're stockpiling gold and you guys are questioning whether they'll be able to use it to buy s*** with...c'mon

[fathom]

Hoyer's been everywhere since the trade telling fans they're going to be spending money this offseason.

[RockRaines]

Of course, but what he's doing is acquiring as many of the most valued assets there currently are. As you pointed out, Shark was offered some pretty decent money and turned it down. He didn't want to be there, so they dealt him for the next best valuable commodity: promise.

 

Let's face it, the Cubs' window is probably 2-3 years away. They're going to bring all these guys up together and hope they can develop into a powerhouse. They've already locked up Rizzo and Castro. They'll have plenty of money leftover to plug some holes, and what they can't get with money, they will get with assets they don't need. It's really not that complicated.

 

It's like they're stockpiling gold and you guys are questioning whether they'll be able to use it to buy s*** with...c'mon

I understand the commodity market for prospects, they just have to hope they pick the right ones to keep (DVD comes to mind).

 

The Sox have 3 all stars this year most likely that spent less than a month in the minors combined. There are many ways to improve an MLB team, the Cubs are dedicated to one which is admirable.

[iamshack]

I understand the commodity market for prospects, they just have to hope they pick the right ones to keep (DVD comes to mind).

 

The Sox have 3 all stars this year most likely that spent less than a month in the minors combined. There are many ways to improve an MLB team, the Cubs are dedicated to one which is admirable.

I think you will see these other ways utilized once the timing comes into play. It makes little sense to expend resources on major league talent until that timing is right.

[Balta1701]

Hoyer's been everywhere since the trade telling fans they're going to be spending money this offseason.

IMO they'd be crazy not to go after one of the big pitchers this offseason.

 

It looks like they're going to be drafting in the top 10 so that pick will be protected one last time, but that might not be the case in the next draft if their kids are anywhere as good as advertised. They clearly need pitching, they clearly have money to spend, and there are 2 top of the line starters (Scherzer and Lester) available to them.

[35thstreetswarm]

Just for fun, and to add some context to the "prospects are prospects" point, here are the top 5 Baseball America prospects from 2006.

 

1. Delmon Young

2. Justin Upton

3. Brandon Wood

4. Jeremy Hermida

5. Stephen Drew

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...2006/26660.html

 

This comes with all the necessary caveats: that's a cherry-picked year (some other years' top 5s look much better), prospects can be valuable as trade assets for years before it becomes clear they are busts, etc. But it's still fascinating to me to look back to see how many of the blue-chippiest prospects turn out to be worthless. Only time will tell what the Cubs really have.

[RockRaines]

Just for fun, and to add some context to the "prospects are prospects" point, here are the top 5 Baseball America prospects from 2006.

 

1. Delmon Young

2. Justin Upton

3. Brandon Wood

4. Jeremy Hermida

5. Stephen Drew

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...2006/26660.html

 

This comes with all the necessary caveats: that's a cherry-picked year (some other years' top 5s look much better), prospects can be valuable as trade assets for years before it becomes clear they are busts, etc. But it's still fascinating to me to look back to see how many of the blue-chippiest prospects turn out to be worthless. Only time will tell what the Cubs really have.

2011-2013 look pretty good but they also included signings like Darvish on there.

[witesoxfan]

I don't want to say it is the case, but it's pretty incredible how similar his career trajectory compares with Brandon Wood right now.

[Balta1701]

I don't want to say it is the case, but it's pretty incredible how similar his career trajectory compares with Brandon Wood right now.

Russell?

[witesoxfan]

Russell?

 

Sorry, can't believe I forgot the name. No, Javier Baez.

[35thstreetswarm]

2011-2013 look pretty good but they also included signings like Darvish on there.

 

Yes, they do - the handful of former super-prospects that are tearing up the league right now (esp. Trout) make all the recent year lists pretty great.

[southsider2k5]

That's the thing I don't understand. What's the Cubs' ultimate end game here? Is it "acquire ALL the prospects?" They seem to be collecting talent with no real direction moving forward. I don't understand what they're shooting for.

 

That is just it. Eventually you have to target an end game. The Cubs just pushed their backwards a year or two.

[southsider2k5]

Hoyer's been everywhere since the trade telling fans they're going to be spending money this offseason.

 

While Crane Kenny has been out crying poor over falling attendance and shrinking advertising.

[fathom]

That is just it. Eventually you have to target an end game. The Cubs just pushed their backwards a year or two.

 

2016 still seems to be the year where they hope to compete. The core young guys will get a ton of experience in the majors next year. From there, if they trade someone like Castro for a good young pitcher like Wheeler, and then go sign someone like Price, Lester or Scherzer, their rotation will be pretty solid to go along with what could be a big time offense.

 

I can't even imagine what insane trade proposals some would come up with on here if the Sox had their prospects.

Edited July 7, 2014 by fathom

[southsider2k5]

2016 still seems to be the year where they hope to compete. The core young guys will get a ton of experience in the majors next year. From there, if they trade someone like Castro for a good young pitcher like Wheeler, and then go sign someone like Price, Lester or Scherzer, their rotation will be pretty solid to go along with what could be a big time offense.

 

That makes no sense to me. Instead of offering a $100 million contract to Smarj, they are going to offer a $150-$200 million to one of those guys? I'll believe it when I see it. Especially with the financial situation there are in. They won't be seeing a major cash infusion until 2019.

[fathom]

That makes no sense to me. Instead of offering a $100 million contract to Smarj, they are going to offer a $150-$200 million to one of those guys? I'll believe it when I see it. Especially with the financial situation there are in. They won't be seeing a major cash infusion until 2019.

 

Because they don't think he's an ace, in my opinion. Also, don't forget the possibility of them going after him next offseason, which was reported a few weeks ago.

[IlliniKrush]

The team has blown through their waiting list, and it is hemmoraging fans right now. The longer this goes on, it will take more than just "kids" to bring people back. Their attendance hasn't been this low since 1997, and it is down 8500 per night over their peak. As Sox fans know, you don't make that up overnight.

 

I know many Sox fans have this built in inferiority complex and irrational fear of the Cubs, but the facts are the facts. The longer this drags out, the more it takes to make up the fall in numbers. Trading off your top pitcher will make this process years longer. Even if they kids do start arriving in 2016, it will take them a couple of years to fit in and see a comfort level. They also aren't all going to arrive at the same time. They aren't all going to make it either. There will be some failures of those "can't miss" guys. All you have to do is look at the ups and downs of their first wave of guys like Rizzo, Castro, and Smarj to see that.

 

We have seen this scenario play out over and over and over, through out major league baseball. A full rebuild takes an incredibly long time, if ever, to succeed. The longer it takes, the more it will eat away at that fan base.

Trading him doesn't make this process years longer whatsoever. If their realistic goal is 2016, this trade did nothing to push that backwards. He's a FA by then anyway.

 

Who cares about attendance? The Cubs are at rock bottom, haven't won in 100+ years. If I'm a Cubs fan, I'd rather have a plan in place and try to have some sort of direction rather than band-aid the whole thing to maybe sorta kinda stay in a race here and there. A few extra wins in these last few seasons or this year doesn't do a whole lot.

 

We haven't seen this scenario over and over again. Find me the farm systems that have been quite this stacked on the position player side. Are all of them going to succeed? Probably not. But they won't need them to.

 

They'll have all this cost-controlled talent hitting the team at or around the same time, and they are going to make 2-3 huge splashes in free agency to grab some pitching (because they'll have a TON of money to spend), and someone like a Stanton etc. to fill whatever other holes they have in the lineup.

 

As far as making that up overnight, that's where the Cubs fan base is different (and much larger) than the Sox. The instant they start winning and getting exciting (and it won't even take a playoff appearance to do it), they'll be selling out. They can absolutely make that up overnight. The Cubs fans aren't going anywhere, they just aren't buying tickets as often. The INSTANT this looks exciting, they'll all be back. Sox don't have that luxury.

 

Will this whole thing work? Who knows. But it's a pretty smart, well-thought out plan.

[southsider2k5]

Because they don't think he's an ace, in my opinion. Also, don't forget the possibility of them going after him next offseason, which was reported a few weeks ago.

 

By then he will be on the open market, and you will be paying market premium for him, along with the risk of losing him to a team that is actually contending.

[Dick Allen]

BA just recalculated their top prospect list. Bryant, Baez and Russell are in the top 7.

 

We do the Irish jig if the Sox trade for someone in a team's top 7.

[southsider2k5]

BA just recalculated their top prospect list. Bryant, Baez and Russell are in the top 7.

 

We do the Irish jig if the Sox trade for someone in a team's top 7.

 

And we quit going to games.

 

I wonder how many season tickets Addison Russell sold?

[Dick Allen]

And we quit going to games.

 

I wonder how many season tickets Addison Russell sold?

If you want to think the Cubs and Sox are in the same boat, fine, but IMO, the Cubs are one 85 win season away from being constantly sold out again.

 

And to answer your question, sadly not much less than Jose Abreu sold.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

If Shark is really criticizing the Cubs (like I believe Kyyle said?) toss in Garza's comments and Theo saying EJax's contract was a massive mistake (which it was) while he's still on the roster and it'll be really hard for them to attract big name pitchers at good prices if the Ricketts are as poor as they claim.