Return for Dunn

[Chisoxfn]

Whether we're contending or sinking at the bottom of the AL Central I think we can all agree Dunn should be moved. What can be our return from any teams that may be interested. Throw some team and prospect names around. I say we can get at most a B level prospect and low level pitching prospect. Share

I expect nothing.

[Chisoxfn]

Whether we're contending or sinking at the bottom of the AL Central I think we can all agree Dunn should be moved. What can be our return from any teams that may be interested. Throw some team and prospect names around. I say we can get at most a B level prospect and low level pitching prospect. Share

I expect nothing.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think Taylor will get a shot eventually. I just wanted to give you some more s***, because it's fun.

This relationship is becoming abusive

 

Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm the Ultimate Champion or the Ultimate Tina Turner

[bmags]

Oooo I can't wait until the sox trade off useful MLB assets for nothing!!! Rebuilding is so fun!

[The Ultimate Champion]

I expect nothing.

And so shall (we all) receive!

 

The best thing about this looming deal is the psychological aspect, just that "healing" feeling for the fanbase. And I think that's all we're going to get.

[cabiness42]

Oooo I can't wait until the sox trade off useful MLB assets for nothing!!! Rebuilding is so fun!

 

Dunn's contract expires at the end of the year and the Sox are clearly not going anywhere this year, so even though I am satisfied with his performance this year, I don't consider him a useful asset.

 

Now, if guys like Beckham and Ramirez are traded off for little or no return, then I will be pissed.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Oooo I can't wait until the sox trade off useful MLB assets for nothing!!! Rebuilding is so fun!

No, we should actually get something out of our useful MLB assets. Dunn is not in that conversation. That conversation ATM is pretty much Alexei, Tank, Beckham, maybe a couple other names sneak in there like Danks or Putnam.

[bmags]

Ah, yes, the return for Tank and Beckham is going to be enormous.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Ah, yes, the return for Tank and Beckham is going to be enormous.

If we can get a Maurer type out of Tank then, while maybe "underwhelming" at first according to the numbers, that could be a huge benefit to us.

 

Ideally IMO out future rotation is Sale-RHSP-Q/Rodon-RHSP-Q/Rodon. Noesi has the ability to be a #3 type, will he or won't he reach that? We don't know, but pick up someone like Maurer, and let's say both Mauer and Noesi turn it around under Coop. You then have an excellent starting rotation that is well balanced, and guys like Beck, Montas, Danish, Erik Johnson, etc. they are just icing on the cake if one of them pans out. Then we have depth. That's ideal. So in short, Tank can bring back upside, even if it comes in the form of an underachieving player. Conversely, you don't get "upside" at all out of Dunn. Just doesn't happen.

 

Re: Beckham, who knows? There's still some upside there too, and a solid 2B under team control to a contender does have value. Beckham is a 1.5 season player. Going to the leaked Astros notes for reference, the Jays at one point at least considered dealing Stroman, probably for some of the same reasons KW, Billy Beane, and the Phillies GM at the time (Gillick?) all traded Gio. Well we are not getting Stroman now, but given how AA is basically Toronto's Kenny Williams and trades prospects like few others do, if we can identify the next Stroman in Toronto's system maybe we can get that guy for Beckham. Toronto has a very good system depthwise it apppears (going off of probably 6-8 years worth of observations where they call up or trade players who prove to be at least MLB caliber in some role) and we could potentially get something there.

 

Again, just as with Tank, we can target upside with Beckham even if it is someone further away or underperforming but MLB ready. We are getting zero upside out of Dunn and that's just how it is.

[Chisoxfn]

Ah, yes, the return for Tank and Beckham is going to be enormous.

Enormously small.

[Chisoxfn]

And so shall (we all) receive!

 

The best thing about this looming deal is the psychological aspect, just that "healing" feeling for the fanbase. And I think that's all we're going to get.

I think the Sox should look to move more money. The more we can free up for international FA's in future the better. Additionally, it will allow club to be flexible in acquiring younger talent and having the resources to sign it (as well as giving money to new core players to continue in this retool). Just my 2 cents.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Enormously small.

You are being too pessimistic. Consider how this organization was able to turn around players like Juan Uribe and Matt Thornton, and how well they identify good young pitching. Hahn may make a deal that on paper looks like we're getting a s***ty player, but don't look at the numbers, look at the talent. Beckham and Viciedo have enough talent to bring back talent in return.

 

Think of it this way, of all the good young players the Sox have acquired in the last maybe 20 years or so, how many of these guys came in the prototypical "blockbuster" type of trade? Most of these guys, for us, have been reclamations, free agents, small Soptic-for-Gillaspie/Miles-for-Uribe deals, etc. The Sox probably aren't going to "win" any Sale deal and probably not a Q deal either, but they could definitely "win" a Tank or Beckham deal getting talented guys in return.

[bmags]

I highly doubt the club would not be competitive for international FAs in November because of the rookie contract of Beckham, Dayan, and the money that would be off the books anyway for Dunn.

 

I was all for tanking as hard as possible last year and trading off lots of assets, but this year I just am not enticed at all by trading away young players who are not being forced off team yet by prospects to get some C- prospect and little-to-no salary relief.

 

We got essentially nothing for 1.5 seasons of Alex Rios, at the deadline, to a contender.

 

As below to possibly above average as Dayan is, the scarier thing to me is we have nothing coming up that has shown it could improve upon that.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think the Sox should look to move more money. The more we can free up for international FA's in future the better. Additionally, it will allow club to be flexible in acquiring younger talent and having the resources to sign it (as well as giving money to new core players to continue in this retool). Just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure where Jerry's caps are re: international players but I am guessing we probably just about hit it on Abreu and were probably overboard in our bidding for Tanaka. I don't know if we'll go crazy on anyone out there.

 

At this point (looking 2015+) thanks in HUGE part to the extensions of Sale and Q, we're actually a "take on money for talent" team than a "move money" team. I think if someone calls Hahn and offers to take on Danks' contract giving nothing back, honestly, I don't think he makes that deal.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm not sure where Jerry's caps are re: international players but I am guessing we probably just about hit it on Abreu and were probably overboard in our bidding for Tanaka. I don't know if we'll go crazy on anyone out there.

 

At this point (looking 2015+) thanks in HUGE part to the extensions of Sale and Q, we're actually a "take on money for talent" team than a "move money" team. I think if someone calls Hahn and offers to take on Danks' contract giving nothing back, honestly, I don't think he makes that deal.

I don't know that paying Danks what we pay him, given the bulk of quality lefties we have, necessarily makes sense long-term. We do need pitching though so I don't say we should just trade pitching, however, if we could move Danks and get some sort of piece we think is quality (not talking top 100 prospect) and clear cash to allow us to take on other contracts that we think are better fits, then I say do it.

[GreenSox]

I would lean toward keeping Danks and try to move him next year, barring some nice offer. A lot of money is coming off of the books this year anyway, and with his spot in the rotation, we won't have to rush a player, reach on a Free Agent, etc.

I don't know what happened with Rios last year - we certainly got underpaid for him. We might have asked for too much in July, and then just settled in August just to get him off the team.

I really would solicit offers for Alexei.

[Balta1701]

I would lean toward keeping Danks and try to move him next year, barring some nice offer. A lot of money is coming off of the books this year anyway, and with his spot in the rotation, we won't have to rush a player, reach on a Free Agent, etc.

I don't know what happened with Rios last year - we certainly got underpaid for him. We might have asked for too much in July, and then just settled in August just to get him off the team.

I really would solicit offers for Alexei.

I still completely disagree.

[GreenSox]

I still completely disagree.

No big deal; we certainly weren't going to get a ton anyway. Texas will probably move him this month - we'll see what they get.

[GreenSox]

If we can get a Maurer type out of Tank then, while maybe "underwhelming" at first according to the numbers, that could be a huge benefit to us.

Maurer has a good arm. We don't know if he can be fixed - he has the talent to be fixed.

But his production has been decidedly worse than Viciedo's and Seattle's the team in imminent need, so I would hope we could add another piece.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Maurer has a good arm. We don't know if he can be fixed - he has the talent to be fixed.

But his production has been decidedly worse than Viciedo's and Seattle's the team in imminent need, so I would hope we could add another piece.

You always hope for the best return possible but if you make a deal and get an arm like that, if he turns things around under Coop, then unless you are giving up an All-Star or something, you're probably getting the better end of that deal by a good portion.

 

For Viciedo, as disappointing as he has been, I think that's a pretty fair deal straight-up. 1-for-1, my high ceiling bust for yours. Maurer would be the cheaper of the two and come with more years team control right? Also if Viciedo's floor is a bad defensive 4th OF and PH while Maurer's floor is a quality RP then I think we should accept that deal and be done with it if that's the best Seattle will do.

 

Of course it all depends on what Coop says, but if Coop sees something in a kid like that then IMO you move quickly before Seattle trades him to someone else.

[greg775]

No, it was a dumb comment. To say any team that takes Dunn will no longer be a contender is ridiculous. If a contending team trades for Dunn, they will most likely be acquiring him to use him in certain situations. He can still hit the ball very far, especially against right handed pitching, and his OBP is pretty high.

The guy has 12 home runs; Paulie has five. Guess what? Paulie would have 12 home runs if he had as many plate appearances as Dunn. I stand by my comment. Dunn is done. Any contender that acquires him has made a huge mistake IMO.

 

Dunn's contract expires at the end of the year and the Sox are clearly not going anywhere this year, so even though I am satisfied with his performance this year, I don't consider him a useful asset.

 

Now, if guys like Beckham and Ramirez are traded off for little or no return, then I will be pissed.

Geez, you are satisfied with Dunn's performance? Why? 12 home runs? If Hahn can get anybody useful for Dunn, bless Hahn. I can't imagine a contender wanting to mess with him.

Edited July 7, 2014 by greg775

[The Ultimate Champion]

No big deal; we certainly weren't going to get a ton anyway. Texas will probably move him this month - we'll see what they get.

They'll get a legit prospect IMO. Not anybody world-beating but someone who would be solidly top-10 in our system and a quality second piece like a reliever or someone with ceiling who is far away.

 

With Texas there is always the possibility of an expanded deal of Rios + RP which could bring in a nice return.

 

But whatever they get, if after the deal we call the Rangers and offer Leury Garcia straight-up for their Rios return they'll laugh us off the phone.

[bmags]

But whatever they get, if after the deal we call the Rangers and offer Leury Garcia straight-up for their Rios return they'll laugh us off the phone.

 

This is basically how I feel.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Also my guess is that this thread isn't in the Trade Winds forum because Dunn isn't really a trade he's just a salary dump/small roster move.

[Eminor3rd]

The guy has 12 home runs; Paulie has five. Guess what? Paulie would have 12 home runs if he had as many plate appearances as Dunn. I stand by my comment. Dunn is done. Any contender that acquires him has made a huge mistake IMO.

 

 

Geez, you are satisfied with Dunn's performance? Why? 12 home runs? If Hahn can get anybody useful for Dunn, bless Hahn. I can't imagine a contender wanting to mess with him.

 

What is the obsession with ignoring 90% of every player's performance? Judge Dunn on what he's done at the plate, not one component.

 

Dunn = .224/.365/.423 (119 wRC+)

 

Does no team need a left-handed DH/emergency 1B that hits 19% better than league average? Idk, but that should be the question or argument, not "Dunn only has 12 homers."