Sox willing to deal Beckham in "right deal now"

[Eminor3rd]

Donny Lucy was one of the more fun longshots to root for. I still remember how angry much of SoxTalk was that we didn't draft that other guy, A's player now with the Nats? Why can't I think of his name? Anyway the board wanted him instead, he was there, said Lucy is never going to hit. They were right.

 

But Lucy was a good guy for the pitchers I think. I'm pretty sure I read where the pitchers really liked his game calling and stuff.

 

My girlfriend decided to commit to "being a baseball fan" during one of Lucy's cups of coffee. She decided that he was physically attractive and would be her favorite player, having no idea that she would almost literally never get to see him play. When I told her he retired to become an avocado salesman, it made her like him even better.

 

I bought her a custom (obviously) Donny Lucy shirsey, and she enjoys being literally the only person in the stadium (city? state? planet?) wearing it when we go to games.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The problem continues to be...unless the White Sox this offseason are going to be willing to spend money on a corner OF and a DH, Viciedo remains exactly the kind of guy they ought to be targeting. Young, fairly talented, not yet extremely expensive, lots of upside, hasn't yet put it together and thus the cost is down, multiple years of team control remaining.

 

If the Mariners are willing to give up someone reasonable for him, I'm more than willing to listen at this point, but until he either gets too expensive for us to wait on or we have a better option available, "dumping" him is the one thing I can't agree with.

 

I can agree with dumping Beckham and De Aza because they're unlikely to have their final arbitration years offered next year. Viciedo isn't yet in that boat. He could be there next year, but not yet.

Yeah I agree with what you are saying but I just think Viciedo = DH, he's a lost cause defensively. It's amateur s***, it's mental mistakes, bad reads, just crap out there. LF is the baseball version of the peanut butter and jelly sandwich, how in the world do you f*** up a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Give a jar of peanut butter, a jar of jelly, and a butter knife to Dayan and the knife will be sticking through the sandwich like it's an hors d'oeuvre and the jelly is on top of the thing and there's no peanut butter because he forgot it. He'll just f*** it up.

 

Now I like the bat and I think targeting a LH version of a Viciedo as a DH would work, or also going after a talented true SS, true CF or RF, or a RHSP. You need lots of ability in exchange for Viciedo to make it worth the gamble IMO. But you make the move because Viciedo is getting more expensive, BorASS is his agent, and contractually we are in a spot where if we invest PA in the guy until he finally gets it, then we'll have his agent threatening to go to free agency if we don't fork over big dollars. There are a lot of issues to navigate here with Tank. That's why you move him but *only* if you get real upside in return.

 

I think that Maurer kid is a great example of the ability you will need in return. If Coop likes him and thinks he can do some work there, make the deal. Arms like that don't grow on trees and if they get it right then they become high quality players.

[The Ultimate Champion]

My girlfriend decided to commit to "being a baseball fan" during one of Lucy's cups of coffee. She decided that he was physically attractive and would be her favorite player, having no idea that she would almost literally never get to see him play. When I told her he retired to become an avocado salesman, it made her like him even better.

 

I bought her a custom (obviously) Donny Lucy shirsey, and she enjoys being literally the only person in the stadium (city? state? planet?) wearing it when we go to games.

When she wears it people will just think that's her last name.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah I agree with what you are saying but I just think Viciedo = DH, he's a lost cause defensively. It's amateur s***, it's mental mistakes, bad reads, just crap out there. LF is the baseball version of the peanut butter and jelly sandwich, how in the world do you f*** up a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Give a jar of peanut butter, a jar of jelly, and a butter knife to Dayan and the knife will be sticking through the sandwich like it's an hors d'oeuvre and the jelly is on top of the thing and there's no peanut butter because he forgot it. He'll just f*** it up.

 

Now I like the bat and I think targeting a LH version of a Viciedo as a DH would work, or also going after a talented true SS, true CF or RF, or a RHSP. You need lots of ability in exchange for Viciedo to make it worth the gamble IMO. But you make the move because Viciedo is getting more expensive, BorASS is his agent, and contractually we are in a spot where if we invest PA in the guy until he finally gets it, then we'll have his agent threatening to go to free agency if we don't fork over big dollars. There are a lot of issues to navigate here with Tank. That's why you move him but *only* if you get real upside in return.

 

I think that Maurer kid is a great example of the ability you will need in return. If Coop likes him and thinks he can do some work there, make the deal. Arms like that don't grow on trees and if they get it right then they become high quality players.

You will not get a player as good as Dayan for Dayan if you trade him. I really would be shocked if the Sox got much value out of Dayan. Best case scenario you get someone elses damaged goods with the hope of turning them around. I suppose you could absorb a contract if you wanted as well. That is why I presume Viciedo will not be traded.

 

Danks and Ramirez are the two guys worth anything, potentially, and with Danks it depends on what statistics you are focused on, however, the reputation he has around the league probably helps his value a bit and maybe, you get something decent for him, especially since with the advent of the 2nd wild card, there are far fewer sellers, thus the Sox would be negotiating from a position of strength (with a limited supply). Ramirez clearly is one of the premiere shortstops in the game, who is getting older, but for a contender with a whole, there is no one better to acquire, and contract is more then fair. Should be able to get something good for him (at least 1 top 50-100 prospect + another spec or two).

 

Beck's won't get you much, maybe you could pull a non toolsy guy with production at higher levels or pull a raw talent. Might also be able to pull a potential bust but just look at his numbers, he isn't very good.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I agree that on paper you're not going to get a deal that makes you go "Wow I can't believe we got that guy for Tank!" But I do think it is very feasible to make an initially disappointing deal where this time next year you go "Wow I can't believe we got that guy for Tank!"

[Chisoxfn]

I agree that on paper you're not going to get a deal that makes you go "Wow I can't believe we got that guy for Tank!" But I do think it is very feasible to make an initially disappointing deal where this time next year you go "Wow I can't believe we got that guy for Tank!"

Most dissapointing trade I think we made last year, was the trade for Rios. That was just a garbage return for a very serviceable player. I know some would disagree but that was truly pathetic. Rangers will get much more for him this year.

[Balta1701]

Most dissapointing trade I think we made last year, was the trade for Rios. That was just a garbage return for a very serviceable player. I know some would disagree but that was truly pathetic. Rangers will get much more for him this year.

Just to say again, I disagree.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Most dissapointing trade I think we made last year, was the trade for Rios. That was just a garbage return for a very serviceable player. I know some would disagree but that was truly pathetic. Rangers will get much more for him this year.

Yeah I completely agree. The Sox said they needed the money for Abreu, then it turns out that they didn't the money for Abreu. They just dumped him, straight dumped him. The Rangers aren't going to get a top-100 prospect but they in theory could, looking at the relatively recent Wheeler-for-Beltran deal the Giants made. They'll get someone good though that will probably be better rated than at least anyone but maybe 8 guys in our system.

 

I agree on Beckham too but really that's what you look for, someone raw or a bust.

 

This is really what we need to remember:

Soptic for Gillaspie

Q for nothing

Viciedo, Alexei, Abreu straight signings out of Cuba

Borchard for Thornton

Putnam, Noesi, Guerra for nothing

Miles for Uribe

If Webb turns out then you can add the Frasor deal

Etc.

I can go on all day with this stuff. The type of deal we make with Beckham can be one that really helps us. What we CAN'T do is settle for Michael Dubee/Jon Link/etc. and just flat out dump the guy to save $1.7M or whatever it would end up being. That's just stupid.

Edited July 8, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[greg775]

We get it, you hate Dunn. But as has been discussed elsewhere, there will be teams looking for a guy like Dunn.. Otherwise, as of right now there really isn't a replacement for Viciedo unless they throw Sierra out there everyday. Then who do they bring up? Regardless, I wouldn't mind seeing Dunn, Beckham, and Viciedo all dealt provided they can get back something decent for the future.

 

I hope you are right about Dunn. Obviously I don't see it, but if Hahn can get a couple good pitchers from AA for him it would be the steal of the century. I'd be willing to bet some money no team in baseball wants him. If he wants to continue his career next year, he's going to be shocked at the $$s. I'd say he gets Jeff Francouer type money when the Royals had Francouer.

[Balta1701]

I can go on all day with this stuff. The type of deal we make with Beckham can be one that really helps us. What we CAN'T do is settle for Michael Dubee/Jon Link/etc. and just flat out dump the guy to save $1.7M or whatever it would end up being. That's just stupid.

Why not?

 

Would you pay Beckham a 3rd year arbitration level contract next year ($7 million ish +)?

 

I would not, barring a massive improvement in his performance in the 2nd half. I'd non-tender him this offseason, flat out dumping the guy then.

 

Given that choice, if I were offered the equivalent of Michael Dubee, a guy with a 5% chance of ever making the bigs, that's an upgrade over what Beckham would give me next year, and I'd save $1.5 million to sweeten the deal.

[Chisoxfn]

Just to say again, I disagree.

We should see in a matter of weeks. The guy is an above league average outfielder (last year and this year), especially when you adjust for his defensive effectiveness (not to mention ability to play all three outfield positions). Put up a 3 WAR a year ago (and 24th best WAR of all outfielders in 2013). This season he ranks 35th in WAR of all outfielders.

 

Note: Remember, there are 90 starting outfielders, so this puts him in the top 3rd.

[Chisoxfn]

Why not?

 

Would you pay Beckham a 3rd year arbitration level contract next year ($7 million ish +)?

 

I would not, barring a massive improvement in his performance in the 2nd half. I'd non-tender him this offseason, flat out dumping the guy then.

 

Given that choice, if I were offered the equivalent of Michael Dubee, a guy with a 5% chance of ever making the bigs, that's an upgrade over what Beckham would give me next year, and I'd save $1.5 million to sweeten the deal.

He will not be a White Sox next year, unless of course we sign him after non-tendering him, and that is pretty unlikely.

[Balta1701]

We should see in a matter of weeks. The guy is an above league average outfielder (last year and this year), especially when you adjust for his defensive effectiveness (not to mention ability to play all three outfield positions). Put up a 3 WAR a year ago (and 24th best WAR of all outfielders in 2013). This season he ranks 35th in WAR of all outfielders.

 

Note: Remember, there are 90 starting outfielders, so this puts him in the top 3rd.

I disagree because i still like Leury as the return in that. The problem isn't that Leury isn't a talented player in my eyes, the problem is he belongs at AA based on his skill level. That's why I like that return for Rios; I think Leury could eventually be a lot better than this but the Sox have chosen to use him in a different wya.

[Balta1701]

He will not be a White Sox last year, unless of course we sign him after non-tendering him, and that is pretty unlikely.

Next year?

[Chisoxfn]

Next year?

Whoops. Either way, it is time for the Beckham era to move on. Best of luck to him but he was a huge bust for us, mainly due to the initial impact he had.

[Heads22]

I agree with most of what you've said, Jas.

[Eminor3rd]

When she wears it people will just think that's her last name.

 

Yeah, we assume people think it's her first name, usually.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, we assume people think it's her first name, usually.

 

I would assume that it's a Donny Lucy shirsey.

[Eminor3rd]

I would assume that it's a Donny Lucy shirsey.

 

But you're special.

[Soxfest]

Beckham needs to go it just is not working out.

[RockRaines]

Beckham needs to go it just is not working out.

It's not you it's him.

[caulfield12]

With Rios' track record, he'd been atrocious in 2009 with the White Sox and even worse on a season-long basis in 2011.

 

Sure, 2010 and 2012 were very good/fairly consistent (2010 he faded after a very hot first half if I remember correctly) and 2013 he was decent...but there was still a lot more money remaining on that deal, too much for teams like the Pirates, etc., to absorb.

 

Then you had some questions about his attititude behind the original dumping of the contract by the Blue Jays and then 2009 with Dye and 2011 was still fresh in memories of many, along with Dunn. It's hard to get past the stink of that season, for both of those particular players

 

For all the talk about WAR, he still only has 3 homers, which is a bit alarming considering his track record. He'd be worth a lot more if he was in that 8-12 range.

[Chisoxfn]

With Rios' track record, he'd been atrocious in 2009 with the White Sox and even worse on a season-long basis in 2011.

 

Sure, 2010 and 2012 were very good/fairly consistent (2010 he faded after a very hot first half if I remember correctly) and 2013 he was decent...but there was still a lot more money remaining on that deal, too much for teams like the Pirates, etc., to absorb.

 

Then you had some questions about his attititude behind the original dumping of the contract by the Blue Jays and then 2009 with Dye and 2011 was still fresh in memories of many, along with Dunn. It's hard to get past the stink of that season, for both of those particular players

 

For all the talk about WAR, he still only has 3 homers, which is a bit alarming considering his track record. He'd be worth a lot more if he was in that 8-12 range.

Look at his total extra base hits. His stats are pretty darn good this year.

[caulfield12]

Look at his total extra base hits. His stats are pretty darn good this year.

 

 

Yeah, a month ago...he was around 30-40 for all of MLB for OPS.

 

Like the White Sox offense, he's faded quite a bit with the Rangers' overall collapse. So there's that as well. Rios doesn't seem to play with as much focus when his team is kind of drifting along out of contention. So another concern.

[Dunt]

Toronto has been scouting Beckham for the last week per Levine